505/1A Running well now, seeking advice on increasing torque.

Ryan Brad /

Sep 21, 2019 06:07PM

What are my options to get it climbing hills a bit faster?

I am 6'8 180lbs. The bike runs relatively fast on flat surfaces and screams downhill, but slows to a VERY slow speed on an incline. I realize its only a 47cc moped, but if you can offer suggestions on what I may try to help in the slightest.

Buff the clutch plates/pads? Experiment with fuel mix? Adjust drive chain?

I don't want to spend all the time doing this stuff if its of no use...

I have an air filter on the way, which I hope might help.

Kit recommendations? Can I do just a clutch kit to increase CC or will i have to do a whole top end with piston rings etc..?

Re: 505/1A Running well now, seeking advice on increasing torque.

Potr zebie /

bullsachs101

Sep 21, 2019 06:23PM

ya need a D cylinder and intake and the 85/12/104 square bing carb

Re: 505/1A Running well now, seeking advice on increasing torque.

Drake Abrahamsson /

drakeabra

Sep 21, 2019 07:17PM

CC stands for Cubic Centimeter so changing your clutch won’t increase your CCs. Single speed engines aren’t great at hills in the first place. Air filter won’t help but is good for the bike so nothing that’s not supposed to get into your system will get in. You’ll have to rejet because you’re messing with the fuel/air mixture. Gear ratios are something to look at. You’ll lose some top speed but will gain torque therefore hill climbing ability and acceleration from off the block. Don’t let kits scare you, they’re arguably same level of complexity as fine tuning your clutch.

Re: 505/1A Running well now, seeking advice on increasing torque.

pat splat /

ggspeed

Sep 21, 2019 11:16PM

some kinda circuit pipe would help.

Re: 505/1A Running well now, seeking advice on increasing torque.

Ryan Brad /

rdbrad4 OP

Sep 22, 2019 11:44AM

n/a (edited)

Re: 505/1A Running well now, seeking advice on increasing torque.

Ryan Brad /

rdbrad4 OP

Sep 22, 2019 11:52AM

> Drake Abrahamsson Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> CC stands for Cubic Centimeter so changing your clutch won’t increase

> your CCs. Single speed engines aren’t great at hills in the first place.

> Air filter won’t help but is good for the bike so nothing that’s not

> supposed to get into your system will get in. You’ll have to rejet

> because you’re messing with the fuel/air mixture. Gear ratios are

> something to look at. You’ll lose some top speed but will gain torque

> therefore hill climbing ability and acceleration from off the block.

> Don’t let kits scare you, they’re arguably same level of complexity as

> fine tuning your clutch.

After putting the air filter on the bike is actually running better than ever since it’s been in my possession and probably about twice as fast uphill as it was without the filter. I’d imagine it was getting way too much air without it, not sure if I should still experiment with the jet or not. Just to be clear I’d have to buy a whole nother jet, bigger / smaller and put it in the carb and just experiment? Re-jetting is not something where you can just adjust the existing jet right??

Re: 505/1A Running well now, seeking advice on increasing torque.

Ryan Brad /

rdbrad4 OP

Sep 22, 2019 11:55AM

> ..... poop Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> >

> ya need a D cylinder and intake and the 85/12/104 square bing carb

Ive been looking into this, are you selling these parts? If you have experience doing this upgrade I would appreciate some guidance on it, first moped, don’t wanna tear apart the engine and get overwhelmed haha

Re: 505/1A Running well now, seeking advice on increasing torque.

Potr zebie /

bullsachs101

Sep 22, 2019 01:42PM

sorry, just replied to your pm before i saw this

yeah ill take new/better pics and send em over tomorrow (that piston is for the jug too but ya just need 2 piston clips)

its a fairly straightforward swap but theres a difference in the connecting rods (i think) in the "A" vs "D" versions of the 505

heres some good info on the 505 engines with its different versions:

https://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Sachs_505/1a_performance (edited)

Re: 505/1A Running well now, seeking advice on increasing torque.

Potr zebie /

bullsachs101

Sep 22, 2019 01:53PM

yeah, here it is:

so you can pretty easily make your "A" the equivalent of a "C" with a "D" jug and piston

however this does require a tiny bit of drilling so you gotta be your own judge in regards to difficulty

Re: 505/1A Running well now, seeking advice on increasing torque.

Drake Abrahamsson /

drakeabra

Sep 22, 2019 06:38PM

> After putting the air filter on the bike is actually running better than

> ever since it’s been in my possession and probably about twice as fast

> uphill as it was without the filter. I’d imagine it was getting way too

> much air without it, not sure if I should still experiment with the jet

> or not. Just to be clear I’d have to buy a whole nother jet, bigger /

> smaller and put it in the carb and just experiment? Re-jetting is not

> something where you can just adjust the existing jet right??

That’s awesome! I guess it corrected (chances are slim that it got the air/fuel ratio absolutely perfect) the ratio! And yes, jets are very delicate and the adjustments needed between sizes are way too small to do by hand. Therefore, you’ll need to buy some. You’ve got a square bing so you’ll need these https://www.treatland.tv/original-OEM-square-bing-jets-p/square-bing-jet.htm

Find out what jet you have by taking apart your carb and unscrewing the jet (without scratching it!). There should be a number on the side. Before you buy any, you’ll need to perform plug chops (https://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Plug_chop). Once you determine whether your current jet is giving you too rich or too lean of a ratio, you can buy the appropriate jets. I’d buy a range of 5-10 depending on how far off your chop shows you are. This is really important to get correct and if you do it will lower the overall maintenance needed on your bike.

Re: 505/1A Running well now, seeking advice on increasing torque.

Born to be WillD /

Go to branch

willd

Sep 23, 2019 01:50PM

https://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Sachs_505/1a_performance

have you read that? It spells most of it out pretty well

there's all the little things that make little differences, but can be significant: possibilities your timing is off, decomp leaks, definitely sounds like jetting could use improvement, making sure the pipe isn't clogged, and checking that the brakes don't rub everything spins smoothly, chain not too tight etc.

Next up, pipe it. I think you could regear for more torque and let the pipe enable some higher RPM to maintain similar top speeds. might hurt reliability and fuel economy but probably worth it.

Then D. D topend is a decent lil boost, D crank along with it makes a lot more torque, with a pipe it's a fantastic setup for reasonable speed, torque and reliability.

An Airsal kit just slapped on there would be pretty easy & satisfying and a big improvement too all around. even without doing much else but tuning it and maybe opening the stock exhaust so it doesn't overheat, though it's a little bit more of an invest cost-wise, kitting it is probably honestly easier than swapping the sprockets to regear even... maybe not quite

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