Help with Sachs 505 clutch / starter cable

Hello, I bought an Eagle III with a Sachs 505 on it, and was running at the time that I picked it up. A day or so later, the starter cable broke from the lever, and was frayed so I had to replace the cable.

Once I got into the case I dissassembled and reassembled the clutch per this video just to get an idea of what i'll be working with on this ped.

I've ordered a starter cable from treat, but in the meantime installed a bike brake cable in it's place (well documented on MA). The cable seems to be installed okay and is engaging the clutch arm against the bell when pulled. When I try to start the bike however, it doesn't turn over at all and the chain / pedals locks up.

Any advice on what I should look at next? I think i need to use a piston stop in order to get the nut on the clutch assembly a little tighter, and need to adjust the clearance between the starter arm nut and the bell a hair, I don't think the nut fully releases off the bell when the cable is disengaged, but that shouldn't cause the chain to lock up right?

This is my first time working on a moped so any advice would be much appreciated. It's also been sitting for a little bit maybe 3 weeks or so, so not sure if I need to do anything with the carb etc, but my gut says there's something not right with the clutch. Please help!

I did fill it with type F trans fluid. Do I need to make sure to lube up each piece on the clutch with trans fluid? Upon reassembly?

eagleII.jpg

Re: Help with Sachs 505 clutch / starter cable

♣Slew Foot♣ /

Open up the flywheel side and see if you can hand turn it if you can then it's a clutch problem if it's locked up it means your piston is seized or some other internal is locked look at the little can opener shape thing that is your Kickstarter sometimes it gets misaligned

Re: Help with Sachs 505 clutch / starter cable

Without the decomp it's gonna be a massive pain in the ass to turn over. Try sitting on it and rolling down a small hill, then pull in the clutch once you get rolling. If the engine still doesn't turn over there's something wrong with the clutch, and if it starts problem solved. If the nut was loose it wouldn't engage at all so don't tighten the clutch nut anymore.

Re: Help with Sachs 505 clutch / starter cable

you don't need a decomp in my experience

when you pull the clutch lever it's pressing the bell to push the pads and plates together. Did you take the clutch apart, or just the starter lever. my suspicion is the brake cable in the starter end might be stuck in the clutch bell, keeping it from turning over well

Re: Help with Sachs 505 clutch / starter cable

♣Slew Foot♣ /

Careful if you bypass the decomp the sax engine Back scavengers so you need that little hole able 2 Supply some back Loop so when you block it it doesn't get blocked all the way but hold the pin in place there's like an internal Passage that if you block it the engine won't run like right

Re: Help with Sachs 505 clutch / starter cable

> Born to be WillD Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> you don't need a decomp in my experience

I just took the leaky decomp off of my 505/1D a couple weeks ago and it went from sneezing on it to start to locking up the pedals as soon as you pull the clutch. If you know what you're doing you can still start it but starting it is definitely harder without the decomp; as far as I can tell it's one of the only bikes that actually needed a decomp valve

Re: Help with Sachs 505 clutch / starter cable

I did take apart and reassemble the clutch. Do I need to lube each plate/pad up before reassembly? I didn't have a piston stop to tighten the clutch nut very much, so I think that may be an issue as well. I will check to make sure the cable is not stuck in the clutch bell, but I don't think that it is. I'll also check the flywheel asap and let you guys know more.

Re: Help with Sachs 505 clutch / starter cable

After tearing apart and reassembling the clutch, installing a new clutch cable, I've finally got this bike turning over and running, but it keeps dying on me mostly when it idles too long or when change from riding downhill to a slight incline. I'm not entirely sure why it's dying but I figured I'd start by cleaning out the carb. The previous owner ran this thing with no air filter on the carb, i'm not sure why. I'm suspecting the air / fuel ratio is off so I'm looking for an air filter to put on the Bing carb. It's got the round float bowl. Can anyone point me in the right direction as far as what air filter to buy?

Re: Help with Sachs 505 clutch / starter cable

I've got probably half dozen decomps I've taken out if anyone wants em

Re: Help with Sachs 505 clutch / starter cable

> Born to be WillD Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I've got probably half dozen decomps I've taken out if anyone wants em

Like actually good decomps? My girlfriend can't start my G3 after I took this leaky-ass one off and I'd be interested in one

Re: Help with Sachs 505 clutch / starter cable

> Nick Haber Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Born to be WillD Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > I've got probably half dozen decomps I've taken out if anyone wants em

>

> Like actually good decomps? My girlfriend can't start my G3 after I took

> this leaky-ass one off and I'd be interested in one

Did you try lapping the valve to get a better seal ?

Re: Help with Sachs 505 clutch / starter cable

Can someone help me understand the role of the decomp a little better? What purpose does it serve? I've read you can just put a bolt in it and forget about it, but I don't want to be overlooking something that may help my bike run better. How do I access the decomp and check it's condition etc, this is my first time working on a sachs 505 or any moped for that matter. Thanks in advance.

Re: Help with Sachs 505 clutch / starter cable

Or even kitted Sachs need a decomp. If she’s haven’t a hard time starting it get some longer crank arms

Re: Help with Sachs 505 clutch / starter cable

the decomp connects to a tiny passage inside the side of the cylinder near the top. this goes to a little chamber where the valve sits. when you pull the starter clutch, the valve is in-line with the starter cable, that pinches it and pushes the valve in, opening it. The pressure above the piston in the cylinder is mostly blown out the hole, through the open valve, and out a little port hole in the bottom left of the cylinder. That makes it much easier to pedal it while holding the starter since the compression is what you're pushing against, but it also it can still run while the decomp is open , at much lower power, just to get it started.

The problem is over time oil builds up in the passage before the valve, or leaks out around the valve, etc etc, sometimes debris can get caught in the sealing surfaces or the spring to return the valve to seal gets weak or heated and loses strength. All these usually compound, a little oil leaks out over time, the valve gets sticky and it sticks a little open, more crud, more sticking, burns etc. You can clean it all out, and usually get it to work OK again, they rarely need lapping - that's more for 4 strokes especially exhaust where you're opening and closing every revolution under a lot of heat; wheras this is kinda hanging a bit open til it gets gross. Usually just needs a good cleaning and maybe new return spring. might need to scrape carbon buildup off the mating surfaces, then lapping will help smooth it again

They'll still run even with a pretty big decomp leak, just not as well, it presents as sortof a 4 stroke sounding stutter at top speeds, usually well below what the top speeds should be, and it doesn't respond to jetting. like it sounds and feels almost like it's 4 stroking up top even if it's lean. it'll also usually require the idle to be very far in. You can also tell if it's leaking because theres a buncha oily junk on the hole under the cylinder, though that can be misleading, oil will wind up down there anyway over long enough time just from regular starting.

Usually the best solution is to remove the valve assembly and plug the hole with a bolt. you need a bolt that sits all the way in and plugs the bottom of the hole, you can have too short a bolt and bottom out the bolt before it plugs the bottom, allowing it to blow by and out the exit anyway. As mentioned it can get harder to start but even with a D cylinder or a kit it's not enough compression you can't just start it anyway. plugging it cures a common problem and makes the starter cable much simpler. one less thing to fail.

I don't know anything about any scavenging to the exhaust, not sure that's real, but I am sure that blocking the decomp doesn't hurt anything.

.

TLDR: the decomp opens a valve when you pull the starter and allows pressure in the cylinder to blow out a hole under the cylinder. It makes it easier to turn the engine over for starting but can leak and get progressively worse, plugging it is a simple effective solution

Re: Help with Sachs 505 clutch / starter cable

I plugged the decomp on my 505/1A and haven't had an issue. It may make starting a tiny bit more difficult, but not enough to outweigh the benefits of a simple solution to a valve prone to leaks and failure. At least in my experience on a stock bike.

Re: Help with Sachs 505 clutch / starter cable

Double Trouble Dan /

Buy or find a stock airbox .

https://www.treatland.tv/complete-stock-SACHS-square-airbox-p/complete-stock-sachs-airbox.htm

Then clean the jet, scrape the float bowl clean , and re-set the float height even though the manual says that it is not adjustable . Flip the carb over and make sure it is level with the body.

If it is , leave it alone.

That will solve the stalling .

The carb is getting too lean and running low on fuel because the lack of restriction is allowing too much air.

There are other pretty easy ways to fix this , like upsizing the jet , or playing with not stock air filters and restricting them partially , but unless you have some experience doing this, its easier to go with a stock setup.

Re: Help with Sachs 505 clutch / starter cable

Setting the float height can be risky biz, it says it's not adjustable because it's real finicky, a tiny little bit over or under and it leaks or doesnt fill...

Re: Help with Sachs 505 clutch / starter cable

Double Trouble Dan /

I know, but i have been successful adjusting the square bings (twice) so they don't leak anymore. A tiny bit of adjustment can solve the leaky bing syndrome.

In this case its probably not the float, but i thought i would include it so other advanced moped guys like you who read this would be able to stop one from leaking when sitting.

Its always a good idea to pull the float pin and clean the needle seat with a cotton swab stick on a drill with a little rubbing compound .

When you put it back together , check the float height.

Re: Help with Sachs 505 clutch / starter cable

yea, also people I think often mistake the float gasket leaks for float leaks on square bings - the float gasket is below gas level on the square bings, so even operating properly it'll leak like crazy if that dumb cork gasket isnt' totally sound.

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