batavus m48 clutch catching

On occasion when I break the engine sputters out. When I go to peddle it start again the clutch is already engaged with out me squeezing the handle. What could be causing this?

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

♣Slew Foot♣ /

well there are two ways of dealing with this one is simple and requires minimial tech. the other time consuming and reqires tools.

get some marvel mystery oil and some nampha(lighter fluid the zippo stuff) go some where where oil splashes are not a biggy or throw down a huge piece of cardboard do not set yourself on fire with the cardboard and lighter fluid.

liberally dowse the clutch mech with lighter fluid getting the inside especially the hubs, not overly between the plates.

wait about three minutes roll it around by hand a few times to get it all saturated i the meanwhile, start her up and rev it out and half brake a few times. this will break loose all the gunk in there, throw a ounce or so of marvel in it roll it slow and smooth by hand get it inside the drum and try to avoid the friction disk area but if you get a little there it won't hurt it you will just have to burn it off with wear.

this basicly half ass cleans it. watch not to overdo it, the plate insides are to be avoided. just behind them inside the drum and central hub. do not get any thing on the belt or it will slip in the rain, LoL.

you are not an instant gratification guy? do it right. dis assemble the whole mech. sand the metal insides of disk plates. light sand friction disk. make sure the nut is secure under drum and that the keyhole is lined up with the flats on the crank the torque on the nut is crucial it is 23 ft lbs any more it sticks any less than 18 it slips.

knock out the spring and bearings, clean, mod whatever...

http://www.mopedarmy.com/wiki/Category:Batavus

batavussm049.jpg

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

♣Slew Foot♣ /

note, the nut washer could be catching on the torsion spring or the clutch plates sticking. i meant inspect behind the nut & drum.

the central hubs can be catching too due to the plates being warped tighten them x patern like in thirds. oil the inner hub ways with marvel or light oil. engage the lever then tap the center button lightly with a ballpeen the friction disk is a little brittle, so when i say tap, i mean like 3 or 4 lbs of force. just a tad more than the lever generates. this will get the races a little cleaner there is probly a wear groove thing goin on depends on mileage

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

Bob dobbs you are amazing. I will be doing the whole tare down this weekend. I work in the backyard so oil spills are not a biggie. As for sand paper grit, 600? And for tools besides the torgue wrench anything special or will be basic tools take care of it?

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

♣Slew Foot♣ /

basic tools. unless you are setting the timing or doin the flywheel side. then the minimium is a light or ohm meter, unnsharpened pencil & sharpie or depth gauge. three claw puller* or bosch flywheel puller.

your idle may just be a little high too.

attatched is everything you need Bat.

and the idle procedure.

* i have had a person tell me that they warped thier flywheel like this. if you have no idea of propper use of tools and procedures do not attempt.

just to clarify how to use a three jaw puller to remove a Bosch.

loosen nut to very end of crank. this is so you do not mushroom your crank. take one arm nut and bolt out of puller, configure puller to lock on the inside.

position flywheel so maximium clearace between points / coils is reached. use the inner crankside of windows to lock onto, Bosch actually put in recesses so you can use a three Jaw BTW.

put one arm of puller in, then other, put the one you dis attached in last. replace nut & bolt then line up screw center onto crank center.

torque to 21 lbs only, if it does not pop by then. reduce torque to 14 lbs and heat center hub with a torch till it pops.

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

Yep, gonna try the quick fix then. I am just learning mechinary currently. I will see about my idle screw. When I cleaned the carb I just put the screw back in with out thinking and now that I remember I put it all the way to the right. This weekend shall be a tinkering one

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

Do you have a page address I could go to to down load a full pdf of the batavus manual?

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

♣Slew Foot♣ /

i got it from the mra website many moons ago.

i can use acrobat pro and hack it ito bite size bits.

@ a blazing total bandwidth of about 43 kbs it should only take 3 or 4 hrs wait.

in the meanwhile, i will go get a cell phone, so i can call some one, come back. start the next part.

go across town let my buds dog out, come back, start next part.

mabe do my laundry for the next too but my back is killin me.

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

♣Slew Foot♣ /

some missing pages mabe better quality figs.

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

Awesome time, thanks a bunch

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

Can't find a diagram that shows which one is the friction plate.

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

♣Slew Foot♣ /

they call it a clutch lining #15 on the blowout

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

With all due respect to Whitedog, I disagree with spraying any kind of oil, Marvel or otherwise, into the clutch to clean it. This is a dry clutch, and any oil on the friction plate will cause problems. I don't think it will just burn off with wear, either.

Your problem has been addressed several times on the forums, so it is not uncommon for a Bat clutch to stick like this. The problem usually lies with the clutch hub assembly, number 3 in the diagram Whitedog so graciously supplied.

Fortunately, after removing the pressure plates and friction disc, you can remove the spring/ball assembly from the hub without removing the hub, Just pry it off. If you do take the time to remove the hub, however, it makes it easier to clean the "dish" that the spring rides in, which you should definitely do for smooth operation. It also allows you to repack the bearing. Just be very careful about replacing the washers in the exact order and orientation that they were in before removal.

Once the spring/ball assembly is off, try to clean it up without taking it apart. replacing all the balls and putting it back together are a royal pain in the ass. Use PB Blaster and carb cleaner to get rust and gunk out as best you can. Then dry it out with compressed air, if available. Give the assembly a light coating of Neverseize before replacing it in the hub. This is key to keeping it working smoothly.

Replacing the plates and disc can be fiddly, but make sure you keep the spokes of the plates lined up in the grooves of the hub as you install the eight spring washers and nuts.

Finally, be sure there is a small gap between the starter arm and the nub in the center of the clutch. Adjust the starter cable if necessary.

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

♣Slew Foot♣ /

the friction plate is actually a polymer composite with additives and fillers, it is not absorbant. marvel is thin enough it spins off, the lighter fluid aids in it not sticking to the polymers surface.

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

my bat does the same exact thing man. on occasion I come to a light and brpp brpp brp brp. done. then fires right back up. weird.

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

Well I tried the marvel trick before I read the last to posts. Work fine for about a mile then it starting having the same problem again

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

♣Slew Foot♣ /

ease off the clutch nut and retorque to 22 ft-lbs. sometimes its just the nut too tight and then when the disk wears some it gets caught up on the tiny groove the isn't as worn as the rest.

best thing is to disassemble, clean, light sand, re assemble.

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

I don't know, the whole thing about if it doesn't pop then I have to heat it with a torch has got me a little uneasy. I'm just entering the mechanical world. Is there anything I can do to screw this up horribly? Anything I can do that can't be fixed? I just don't want to make it worse or completely break it, what grit sand papaer? Clean with carb cleaner or what?

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

♣Slew Foot♣ /

well you wont need a torch on the clutch side.

its pretty much non screwable as long as you put it back in order.

the bosch is sevicable without removal, aside from replacing points, condenser, or coils.

the one thing about an M48 is all you need are the basic tools and you can service everything except pressing in the bearings on the bottom of the connecting rod.

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

So for a basic disembaling I can do it without the 3 claw pull or not? I also don't have a torque wrench. The button was mushroomed when I did the oil fix.

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

Is there a step by step forum, on eiki or picture thing? Not sure how to disassemble it and what to take off when

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

♣Slew Foot♣ /

just to make you feel better, marvel and lighter fluid is not the same as 2t or motor oil/grease.

but to make you feel comfy wash friction disk in dishwashing liquid and warm water before resanding.

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

Jr, your awsome time! I hope your back gets better soon. One day I'll go insane & ride the batavus from ma to penn. Then I'll get ya a beer and some barbecue for all your help

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

Here's about as step-by-step as i can get it:

You will need:

8mm socket (if you don't have metric, a 5/16 is the same size)

screwdriver

PB Blaster or equivalent penetrating oil

carb cleaner

Neverseize thread lubricant

Since you are somewhat apprehensive about attacking the project, we'll just take you as far as removing the clutch plates and disc. You won't have to worry about the hub nut, washers, or torquing it down.

1. Remove the clutch cover (be thankful you have one!)

2. underneath the engine, remove the two bolts that go through the plastic deflector and hold the starting arm in place. There are plastic spacers on each that may stay with the deflector or come out with the bolts. Th bolts go into a bar on top of the arm that serves as a double nut.

3. with the arm loose, you can detach the starting cable and put the arm aside.

4. There are six 8mm nuts holding the clutch plates on. remove every other one with their spring washers, then remove the last three evenly so that the end plate comes off evenly. It's under spring tension, so be ready for that.

5. There may be a small flat spring on one of the tabs of the friction disc. Catch it as it comes off, or you'll be looking all over the place for it. (Don't ask me how I know.)

6. remove the coil spring, end plate, friction disc and inside plate.

7. the clutch hub is now accessible. There's a spring going around the inside of it. Put the screwdriver between the front of the hub and the spring and pry it off the hub. two screwdrivers may help get it off.

8.Inspect the dish shaped plate on the engine side of the hub. It probably has rust and gunk on it. Clean it off with the carb cleaner and sand it smooth.

9. Now check out the circular spring with the balls inside. Rusty and dirty? Spray with PB Blaster and work it to get the gunk loose, then clean it out with carb cleaner. Hopefully, this will be sufficient, because taking the spring apart and putting it back together is a pain in the ass.

10. coat the spring/ball assembly lightly with NeverSeize. Coat the dish shaped plate also with a light coat of NeverSeize.

11. pry the spring back over the hub.

12. Clean the end plate and inside plate.

13. Clean the friction plate with the carb cleaner of it's contaminated with grease or oil. sand it with 100 paper to break the glaze.

14.Reassemble the inside plate, friction disc, and end plate on the hub.

15. Put that flat spring over one of the tabs on the friction plate.

16. Install the coil spring and spoked end plate. This gets tricky. You have to be sure that all the spokes of the plates sre correctly located in the grooves of the hub, and keep them pushed in there while you install the first three 8mm nuts and washers.

17. Install the last three nuts and washers. they should be snug, but they don't have to be torqued down super tight.

18. Take the starting arm and the double nut. line up the holes and tape them together.

19 .attach the arm to the starting cable and install it with the two bolts from underneath. Don't forget those two plastic spacers.

20. put the cover back on.

Enjoy the ride!

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

Thank you so much.

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

If I did it, you can.....I've never had any mechanical experience before my VA.

I have it running today with MA advice and printouts, and mostly Shawn at Myrons Mopeds (whose First moped was a HS50 brand New.), It's as simple as they get, I would imagine anyway..?

Re: batavus m48 clutch catching

Oops! Forgot one step!

19A. Before putting the cover back on, check that there is a small space between the starting arm and the button in the center of the clutch. It shouldn't be much, but the two should not touch. Adjust the cable at the handlebar end if you need to. Put a dab of grease in there while you're at it. Then spin the back wheel to make sure the clutch is free.

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