What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Ok...so this AV10, 47mm Eurocylindro, 19mm PHBG clone, malossi 2 petals reeds, doppler pipe, treats CDI party with a JOG 90 CDI box and the little red ignition coil treats sells with an NGK 5k resistor cap and an NGK B7HS.....swapped gas out to 32:1 redline...i started playing with jetting today...just the main...the clone jet is unmarked, but was about an 82 or so....I redrilled to about an 84, and then about an 90 or so...I've never had a carb run so bad...like not even close. I looked over the spread sheet...I'm seeing 84 to 106 or so on AV10's and I suppose it seems the Dopplers are jetted a bit higher, but damn...it hardly runs under any load. Well...it starts right up and idles really rich, which I'll deal with later. I ordered a flywheel puller to check timing or pull the CDI and throw my points on it....

Does this sound like ultra lean jetting or a carb flow issue...or timing? or? opinions please...this is literally the farthest a carb has even been from being even remotely close. Check it out and thanks in advance.

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Adam Pereira /

Actually about a 95 main in there...just ran it again...it really feels like a misfire at rpm above like 2500 or so....I dunno...I will keep at it...flywheel puller should be here in a day or so.

thanks.

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Totally normal JBOT /

Timing i bet. Maybe the cdi.... Or cdi setup...

With points bikes you can use the horn to see if youre losing spark.

Does it work the same with cdi?

Do you have a spark tester you can run inline?

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Ed - Dead Possums /

video is private

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Adam Pereira /

Video is fixed now...sorry about that....

JBOT....i have a "spark tester"..ha.. Or Hmmm....flywheel puller on the way to confirm good or bad timing setting....I have another CDI box...a JOG 50 racing box I could try as well.....I'll keep thinking on this one.

thanks!! (edited)

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Could be timing or the clone or the ambiguous jet resizing

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Adam Pereira /

Right! That's where I'm at with it. Though the jetting, which I don't feel is totally ambiguous, I mic'd the bits...the sizing is close to del jets...although I could've overshot the mark now if it is timing. I'll be able to check it out maybe tomorrow when I get the puller...or slap my novi on it and eliminate that variable. The vendor I go this clone from had really nice sha 15's, so I gave this phbg a go for kicks...all an experement here on some level

Thanks for the input!!

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Try raising the clip on the needle all the way and report back.

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Adam Pereira /

Already tried that before posting...made no real difference the clip was originally in the second leanest position

Thanks..

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Adam Pereira /

Ok...hopefully today I get the puller and timing light I need to check this CDI funny business...I know I should've checked before even posting this...sorry for the question with a lack of checking....was more just looking for confirmational feedback that supported my suspicion of the timing being set wrong...just thought it was weird it will start, but not rev. When I've had timing slip on my av7, it just wouldn't start at all....good times...and more to come...and I'll post the solution when I find it.....anyone have a killer BTDC number for the treats MBK cdi? 1.8mm? 1.9mm?

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Adam Pereira /

Hey...and one more opinion if anyone is looking....keep the CDI on there or just swap to my points...I have 2 good complete sets....my guts is saying...pull the CDI off and just throw on points and call it good and go from there...timing before jetting, duh....I just assumed the PO of the motor MAYBE had set the CDI up correctly upon install....FUN FUN FUN!!!

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Adam Pereira /

OK...reset the timing to 1.5mm BTDC....no better...still seemed slightly more stable with the choke on...so I drilled a 100MJ.....no difference with or without the choke, but still sounds boggy...any leaner than a 95 it dies at WOT unless choked...and rpms are peaking at about 2500.....so...I pulled the carb and noticed some bad casting on the choke inlet...cleaned that up...no different....I cleared the air inlet holes at the mouth of the carb, thinking they got dirty or poorly drilled....the bike actually is responding a bit more properly....now it is really rich on top...but sounds like it's 4 stroking, not lean bogging...and will actually dies at WOT from too much fuel....oil spewing from the pipe now....before it would be smokey at idle and then no smoke at all...now it is just smokey as hell.

That being said....I'm leaning toward carb issues here...It is the Dakar clone, with the AU atomizer bushing, #30 slide, and unmarked shit...main was in the high 70's. I will try rejetting...if no better...I may just order up a SHA AV10 intake for diagnosis, as I have 2 good running SHA's a real one and a clone that I know kicks ass.

HOLLA!!

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Totally normal JBOT /

Do points dummy!

Just to check if it'll run.

It'll take less than 1/2 hr to test your hypothesis.

Be systematic.

Points?-> runs? Great.

Doesn't run-> look at the carb....

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Adam Pereira /

LOL...I know.....I'ma rejet tomorrow to a normal size again....low 90's, and see if it responds. I really think possibly the little air inlet to the atomizer was clogged....I'll quickly test that theory and if it goes nowhere, I'll tho some points on that bitch!!! If all that fails....I got a S intake coming for shits to try out with a 15mm...fun at the races over here!!!

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Adam Pereira /

Carb almost worked out this morning, actually reved up and made POWER, but then something went funky and it died...well I went to adjust the air mix screw and it was stuck stuck stuck.....so...I have a good feeling the carb is to blame here....took a chance on a $25 clone, and it didn't work out....2 outta 3 good ones ain't bad tho. SHA intake on the way for now until I can fund a proper PHBG!!!

thanks!!

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

yeah, it's gotta be your carb. I just got my av10 running last night, and it's running almost perfectly (just a little rich) with a 50 idle, 60 starter, 40 slide and 96 main. I'm unsure what the needle is...

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Adam Pereira /

I hope so....lol. I got the SHA intake coming for shits...and luckily got a 21mm from another MA member on the way...a real del this time. So hopefully here this week I can get this puppy rolling.

Nick...What all are ya running on that AV10 bro? Thanks.

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

NEMA Victor (3 Knees Down) /

I have a 19mm PHBG Del on my AV10, then again, I have a Polini kit...

In my experience, you'll want to be dialed in at about 1.3mm or less. I'm currently at 1.1mm.

A 21mm carb might be overkill but what do I know, I just run a 50cc race bike. I doubt the euro kit and your setup would take full advantage of the 21mm carb.

Leave the CDI in, get it down at or below 1.3mm btdc, open your reeds up, make sure that your intake is meant for two pedals and not four (this will cause you to have no low-end and force you to run a leaner setup), and run 50:1 if you are doing synthetic on your break-in. You will gum up your rings and run hotter doing 32:1 in my experience.

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Well, at the track today it was almost 100deg in the shade, and I had to downjet to a 90main to avoid 4 stroking. It's a doppler 50cc with doppler pipe, 19mm phbg, treats cdi, malossi hi comp head, er3 variator and doppler clutch pulley. It was revving SUPER HIGH at the track but only hitting mod 40's. The track was pretty twisty though - not a lot of room to open it up and see what it can do.

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Adam Pereira /

Hey thanks for the input!!

@ Victor....I hear 19 is the number and I have a 19mm carb coming to replace the fucked up clone(from the vendor), but in my experience and calculations...the 21mm should be good to go..it's 72cc and I calc'ed for 8000rpm peak.....anywhere from a 15mm to a 21mm is appropriate...hell..I run a 24mm OKO K101 on my 72cc horizontal minarelli with a yasuni C16...peak power is 108000....it is money...the 21.. was good too, but the 24 is crazy powa!!! I will reset that timing down lower for sure too man!! thanks a bunch for that! I was looking and looking...points were getting ready to come off the av7...lol

As far as reeds go...yeah....I'm running the stock cases...no extra 4 petal intake, just a shorty...I have the ,Malossi 4 petal, but like my pedals...so...I opted for the malossi 2 petal block..it's big..opened the cases for them to fit...they clear and open...so....hopefully in the next few days I'll have some good news here!! Thanks again!!

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Adam Pereira /

Hey Nick....that setup sounds just beautiful!!! I'm slowly getting this guy together. What RPM are you finding that Doppler making peak power on your kit? I see know power curves posted anywhere...just that people like them...lol.

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

NEMA Victor (3 Knees Down) /

Adam Pereira Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As far as reeds go...yeah....I'm running the stock

> cases...no extra 4 petal intake, just a shorty...I

> have the ,Malossi 4 petal, but like my

> pedals...so...I opted for the malossi 2 petal

> block..it's big..opened the cases for them to

> fit...they clear and open...so....hopefully in the

> next few days I'll have some good news here!!

> Thanks again!!

What I meant is if the intake window is meant for a 4 petal or 2 petal.

I assume the reeds are these https://www.treatland.tv/AV10-malossi-reed-block-carbonio-p/mbk-malossi-reed-block-3021.c0.htm

Match your intake to that window on the reeds. If the intake window is too big, it will be ultra rich on the low end. Open it it up if it is too small though.

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Adam Pereira /

Oh!! ok...yeah...the intake opening where it meets the reed cage is an identical match. I'll reset that timing and get a working carb on here over the next week...as I'm waiting on USPS...tomorrow is a holiday...so by Thursday/Friday I should have two options in my hands....either a 15mm SHA or the 21mm PHBG....I know the SHA is a good working carb, so I may throw it on to test it's running....but the 21mm PHBG is on the way!!!

thanks again!!

super stock 103 build coming next!!!

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Adam Pereira /

Timing set to 1.1mm BTDC...check. Still waiting on the USPS for intakes and carbs...blah!!!! Happy 4th!!!

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Adam Pereira /

LOL....still shitty. I pulled the motor this morning...all is well...but the CDI wiring from the PO was just a little janky when I pulled it...so...while it was off...I took off the CDI box and installed my points plate....ahhh....so...I'll set the timing and get it all hooked back up and in the ped and see if i'm still fighting this guy....good times and thanks for the help all.

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Adam Pereira /

Ok...what the FUCK??? I got the points system on, treats red coil, non resistor cap, timing 1.5mm BTDC, point gap .035mm, plug gap .019mm....del PHBG 21mm.....now this fucker won't even fire up....errrr....I'm gonna swap to the NOVI coil...this NOVI system was off my running AV7 motor, so I know it is a good system.....It'll puff and try to start...even kinda weak runs if I run with it...won't turn over...anybody? Bueler? Bueler?

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Adam Pereira /

And I just ran up the street...spark checker is showing a blue spark, but pretty small....smaller or more dim than I am used to seeing, maybe....more doinking tomorrow

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Adam Pereira /

ok..it's another day..and this french bitch is bugging me....ROAR!!! Coffee for me, swim lessons for the kiddos...and then back to WAR!!

(edited)

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Adam Pereira /

Ok....I suck....just noticed the stator mounts penetrate into the engine case and are leaking....maybe they bolts from the cdi made a better seal than the new longer ones for the points...the av7 has studs. I think I'll retry the cdi with the mounting bolts actually sealed. I learned my lesson on this one...always always always do a complete tear down on used shit....tear down and rebuild would've been like 8 hrs total...roar!!!!

Re: What gives? Jetting? Timing? AV10 VIDEO!!!

Adam Pereira /

Yeah...so it runs again...yay!! But I gots visible air leaks in my reed/case joint that weren't there before....I noticed the stator side crank seal is in kinda wonky too...I just don't trust it to be sealing, and the carb cleaner test won't hit that spot...so.....I'm just gonna bite the bullet...and take this motor all the way down....seals...maybe some bearings.....case gasket..and get it all sealed and squished REAL PROPER.....I've been so half ass for the last few months...fucking shingles beat my ass...but I'm feeling good again...my mind isn't being a lazy fucker, and I need to just tackle this one correctly...from the beginning....so.....fuck this thread...I'll start a new one when this lil puppy runs right!!!

thanks!!

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