Can I put electronic ignition in??

I have a 1976 Sachs Hercules moped (6V 17W) and I was wondering if I can replace the points set-up with an electronic ignition system (CDI)? If possible, where can I get this? If not, where can I purchase the points? Has anyone out there ever tried the switch? I have an old VW van and I swapped the points for electronic ignition and I've never had a problem since....does the same apply for a moped? Thanks for your help.....Peace.

Re: Can I put electronic ignition in??

Excellent question.

If you go to www.briggspowershop.com and enter the search word "ignition" in the upper-right corner, you will find electronic ignition for Briggs 2 to 11 horsepower engines.

It' "replaces breaker points for maintenance-free electronic ignition."

But would it work in a moped??????????

Re: Can I put electronic ignition in??

I found another website with electronic ignition at:

http://www.mfgsupply.com/m/c/31-8786.html?id=YxYFgHFn

The product description sounded good until you get to the part where it says "This module is not recommended for use on engines equipped with battery ignition or flywheels with multiple magnets."

Do our mopeds have multiple magnets around inside the drum-shaped flywheel? There's multiple slugs of metal inside the flywheel of my Puch one speed! Is each one a separate magnet?

Hmmmmm.......

Re: Can I put electronic ignition in??

Dave:

I checked out both web sites that you've recommended. Thanks for your time and interest. Unfortunately, as far as I can gather our mopeds do have multiple magnets around the inside of the flywheel. I am going to check with a local "Briggs & Straton" distributor to see if they can locate the retrofit electronic ignition for the 2-11 HP engines. I'll keep you posted on the results. Thanks again.

Re: Can I put electronic ignition in??

My Vespa has only 2 magnets on the outside of the flywheel where these would mount. Weedeaters and chainsaws also have nice ignitions. You must make sure that the legs of the coil are about the same size as the magnets, and mount them in the correct relative position. There is no reason why they wouldn't work. As for the battery etc. these things only have a ground wire to kill the ignition to shut them down. Since they are completely independant of the other electrical system, they should have no effect either way.

Cheers,

Gene

Re: Can I put electronic ignition in??

Okay, I have spent all Sunday afternoon researching these small electronic ignition modules. I finally found U.S. Patent No. 4163437. It's for an improved electronic ignition module over the first one invented by Bosch and covered under Patent No. 3878452.

In reading the patent, it seems lawn mower engines have different ignition (spark) coils from our mopeds. The coil in the lawn mowers have the magneto magnet passing right by the primary winding of the coil. The primary winding gets magnetism directly from the magnet and sends magnetism to the secondary to generate electricity in it that goes to the spark plug. That's why the spark plug wire on my lawn mower pops out of an engine cover. The coil is deep inside the engine and inside the magneto.

Our spark coils are outside the engine. Mine is fastened to the bike frame. There's a magneto coil inside the magneto that sends power to the primary winding of the spark coil mounted on the frame of my moped.

On a lawn mower, the engine gets the proper timing because the primary winding of the coil is directly pulsed by the magneto magnet flying by.

On a moped, the timing is set by the points opening and closing.

I found a diagram on the Internet showing the installation of these electronic ignition modules. (see http://www.psep.biz/store/universal_electronic_ignition.htm )

You cut the wire from the points and condenser and install the module there. On a lawn mower engine, that's okay since it still gets timed from that magnet flying by the coil primary winding. (Notice the strange shape of the coil at the above Internet address... It's shaped to fit against the magneto so the magnet can go past the primary winding.)

On a moped, the timing is controlled by the points. Cutting the wire from those points would remove any chance to tell the electronic ignition module when to trigger the spark plug.

I DID find one electronic ignition module that could be made to work but you would need to severely modify the engine You can find it at:

http://members.aol.com/pullingtractor/ignition.htm

Scan W-A-Y down the page and find the ignition system I have included a picture of as an attachment to this note. You would need to attach the aluminum disk on the outside of the magneto flywheel (somehow) and mount the magnetic pickup coil somewhere where it would see the little screw going by at the right time. The magnetic pickup coil would trigger the Chrysler ignition module they provide with the kit and you could use a moped spark coil. You may need to install a battery for power to the system.

Ain't gonna happen at my house.

Dave

1158553869_crnktrgr.jpg

Re: Can I put electronic ignition in??

Oh, I forgot to say, if you want to read Patent No. 4163437, go to

www.uspto.gov/patft

There, search for the patent number (left side).

To display the "images" you must install some software they provide.

Dave

Re: Can I put electronic ignition in??

remember he said "sachs", this 504... or 505 series engine from sachs has an internal high tension coil, it along with the generator coil rides under the flywheel, BW one magnet running around the circumfrence of the flywheel, 4 metal slugs to provide interupt-ability (sorry not a word) for the coils, but one solid continuous magnet. I dont know how chainsaws/ other two stroke compare.

I am talking to a guy here In Sacramento about converting MY '79 hercules to CDI, if he/we can come up with a "kit" I shall try to convince him that there IS a market for moped stuff.......

Tim In Sacramento.

Re: Can I put electronic ignition in??

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