young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I guess

Farewell all ! parting is such sweet sorrow Beside my old lady is pissed im on the computer all the time ,but i SHALL LET YOU ALL MUDDLE THROUGH YOUR PROBLEMS ON YOUR OWN AND MIND MY OWN BUSSINESS GOOD LUCK AND FAREWELL

young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I guess

NOOOO!!! DAN! WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT!?? DONT LEAVE ME!!!!! I NEED YOU, MY MOPED NEEDS YOU! WE ALL COULD USE YOUR WISE WISDOM!

ok. enough of that. but really, are you gonna quit from moped army, and helping us young, dumb asses out? I am still a moped dumb ass. i need to learn more! MORE! i want MOOORE!!!!!! info, and wisdom about the mysteries of the puch moped.

JAY :)

ps..if you DO decide to leave, thats..thats...thats ok, iguess..I just want to THANK YOU for all your help in the last month. jesus man! i look at all my emails, and theres like 50 fucking emails FROM YOU!! you fucking helpful motherfucker you! lol!!! DAN KICKS ASSS!!!!

boo ya ka shaw!

farewell dan,

JASON

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

you're only 53 ..

the M.A's got people who were mechanics when you were still in diapers.

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

I that they do but do they have the patience to guide you along I dont see to many of them willing to help maybe I can drag them in and prove me wrong thats my whole reason for being here murphy jumped in I never saw him before hes an old guy

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

god you guys are to easy you think Im gonna actually leave you dubs on your own and Jason im always around for you little buddy,my grndmother used tosay we grow old to soon and smart too late

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

MURPH IF YOUR STILL OUT THERE WE NEED MORE OLD GUYS GETTING INVOLVED

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

i wish my grandma said somethin like that..she was a retireing alchoholic from a ridiculously weathly ass family who always called me a "silly ass" because my brother and i ran around the house all the time..which, would axually be the proper name to call us.

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

YEs, more old folks. thats just what we need! i mean, who the hell wants young folks around! lol!...

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

Allen Murphy /

Us old farts STILL remember how to gap points and plugs with a matchbook, clean a set of points with a nail file, check coil polarity with #2 pencil--list goes on!

Al Murphy

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

Blaine- The artist formerly known as Plumber Crack "(OFMC)" /

come on Al, you gotta share the pencil trick with us.

i have this ability to fix many things by hitting them. it's all in WHERE ya hit it.

i KNOW you have too.

and i'm sure YOU'VE gotten many of the same looks from people

1. their jaws drops at the sight of you, hitting their stuff. then

2. their look of amazement because their stuff started working.then...

3.they look at you as if you're some kind of genius and on occasion may actually use that word to describe what you have just done.

let's hear it Al

Later, Blaine

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

GOD now I FEEL old

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

Allen Murphy /

Ypu put the pencilpoint between the plug and plug wire and see which side the sparks come off of when the spark jumps from the wire, to the pencil lead, to the plug.

The sparks should be from the pencil towards the plug.

Al Murphy

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

Blaine- The artist formerly known as Plumber Crack "(OFMC)" /

does it really matter? a spark is a spark

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

Evidently it can matter.. because coil polarity determines spark plug polarity. The center part of the plug gets hotter during operation than the metal body. Electricity travels more easily in a particular direction if this temperature difference exists.

<http://www.chicagolandmgclub.com/techtips/general/574.html?

".....It has been found that it takes approximately 15% less voltage to form an arc at the plugs, if the hotter center electrode is negative, and the cooler (by comparison) ground electrode is positive. The center electrode is hotter since heat transfer from the tip must make its way through the porcelain insulator past the sealing gaskets to the shell block and then to the water jackets..... "

" ...If your center electrode is positive, your car will probably still run fine until, with its 15% handicap, it exceeds the coil output..."

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

Blaine- The artist formerly known as Plumber Crack "(OFMC)" /

what did he say? it really doesn't matter. harleys have been doing it for years. in one plug it flows one way and the other flows the other. any car that has coil packs operates the same way. one plug erodes more at the electrode the other erodes more out on the bar. in the end, bothplugs need to be replaced.plugs are cheap. i don't get the 15% thing, on a vehicle, all the wires are different length, which results in different KV's to make it to the plug. i'll play with the scope today and swap some wires on a coilpack. i can't believe it would make ANY difference in voltage. cylinder pressure has more of a bearing on KV than diredtion of flow.

either way, like i said, it really does not matter. a spark is a spark. plugs are cheap. it works either way.

Later, Blaine

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

it may not matter.. but it can matter... if an engine never approaches the limits of the ignition system, it won't matter.

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

TECHNITION FIGHT!!!!!!

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

Allen Murphy /

Yes, Blaine--it matters

On a coil pack, two plugs fire at the same time. One fires on the exhaust stroke and is wasted, it does nothing, and the other is firing a compressed charge of fuel/air at the top of the compression stroke, BTDC.

BUT--they both have the same polarity. They have to or the spark from one would run through the ground for the other and defeat the entire system.

Al Murphy

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

And the old guy gets a in hard right hand,Blain is on the ropes

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

Blaine- The artist formerly known as Plumber Crack "(OFMC)" /

you are correct. one is firing the mix and the other is wasted. hence, the name, waste spark ignition.

but having the same polarity?

sorry al but that is not the case on a waste spark setup. the polarity thru the plugs are opposite. the plugs are wired in series, not parallel. here's an example.

http://rockledge.home.comcast.net/RangerPictureGallery/DIS_EDIS.htm

the next time you do a tune-up on a vehicle that has a waste spark ignition setup, compair the plugs being fired by the same coil. if it's really high mileage on a set of plugs, it will be very obvious. the one plug will have a very rounded electrode and the other will have more material burnt away from the bar. that is why many waste spark ingnition systems came from factory with double platinum spark plugs, to try and hold up to that "100,000 mile tune-up" sales pitch. double platinums have platinum on the center electrode AND on the bar. and since platinum doesn't erode quickly like conventional plugs, they are able to be manufactured with much smaller surfaces which are able to jump a spark easier with less voltage, getting them that much closer to that 100,000 mile tune-up.

often times i have seen them where a bad wire that resulted in a miss was left go, and the good wire on that coil was still demanding a spark, looking for it's path to ground,that the spark travels down the coil tower of the bad side, right to the coil mounting bolt, instead of thru the waste plug, ruining the coil also. many times the miss will affect both cylinders under load, even though only one wire is bad.

the only time polarity may come into play is as joew said.

when you are close to exceeding the limits of the coil, but most systems are capable of several times there required ability. if added resistence enters the circuit(bad wire) one may lose spark first.

Blaine

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

Blaine comes back with a flurry of lefts and rights Al's hurt folks his legs are gone could this be the end

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

Blaine- The artist formerly known as Plumber Crack "(OFMC)" /

check this out. just yet one more way of making cars cheaper.

http://www.miracerros.com/mustang/sparkplugs.htm

seems weird how they say their making them cheaper but they always end up costing more and more.

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

Allen Murphy /

OK--I stand corrected.

Wasted spark was IMHO, a rather useless means of running an engine. With Hall-Effect pickups, the distributor had reached the pinnacle of ignition control, and if it wasn't for the auto makers wanting to screw anyone who worked on their own car out of doing just that, we'd still have distributors.

However, the powers that be figured out if you can't screw the public out of a small fortune when you buy the damn car, they can bunghole you on the repairs.

Gotta love technology--even where we don't need it!!!

Al "Old School" Murphy

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

Blaine- The artist formerly known as Plumber Crack "(OFMC)" /

hey Al.

believe me. i miss the days of simple, under the hood.

some days i really pull my hair out with all the new crap. every auto manufacture has their own way of doing things, and just as you figure out what's going on, they change it.

it's not really the fault of the auto makers, it's more the result of the treehuggers. they don't put out all the money to change things unless they have to, unless it would profitable. they change mostly to keep up with E.P.A. changes. they're forced to change.

not that hugging trees is all bad. i want my grandkids to breathe clean country air just as i did when i was a kid, but they''ll never know what it's like to smell the sweet smell of gasoline in the air on a cold christmas eve in sears parking lot as a 64 fairlane with the choke hung up belching black smoke rings idles by with that familiar sound of a dead miss. fut-fut-fut-fut-fut

or watching the fuel vapors rising across the whole parking-lot at sears on a hot summer day, with the sweet smell of gasoline in the air. ahhh the good old days.

things have come a long way in the past 25 years under the hood. early 80's was a real ugly time. before all the fuel injection. trying to clean up a carb with all the vacuum hoses and vacuum this and that. kinda like "lipstick on a pig". it was still a pig. fuel injection was a big improvement. getting rid of the carb and being able to control the fuel more precisely. once they got the fuel injection down, the secondary ignition became the next target for change. now many cars have an idividual coil sitting on top of each plug, eliminating the plug wires all together. along with major improvements in oils.

i can't tell you the last time i have seen and oil fouled plug with the gap crusted shut.

they really have accomplished an amazing goal in cleaning up emissions in a relatively short time, when many thought that it couldn't be done.

you can't even off youself by letting the car run with the garage door shut anymore. : )

when it all started changing, i hated it, but being the career i had chosen, i learned to embrace it. it was either that or starve. you can't make the big bucks just changing oil.

some day the whole fossil fuel thing will just be a small chapter in a history book. it's all just a sign of the times.

Later, Blaine

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

I got to think up something else to reel you guys in ,GET THE NET MAUDE I THINK I GOT ME A BIGIN

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

Steamboat Aka J. R. Stevens /

Hey Blaine, GM's waste spark works the same way.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3828/is_200411/ai_n9469461/pg_2

One spark plug in the pair of DIS running mates always fires from the center electrode to the side electrode, while the other fires from the side electrode to the center electrode.

I remember when many American cars changed from drum to disk brakes,Some of the old timers predicted a rise in the death rate. They didn't realize disk brakes had been in use for years on CARS IN Europe. IMO Changing technology is here to stay. Tomos and others now use electronic ignitions and many manufacturers are changing to 4-stoke engines. Jim

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

Steamboat Aka J. R. Stevens /

My 2005 Chevy Colorado has a 5 cylinder engine. Would a waste spark system work? hehe Jim.

I'm just jerking you. My truck has "coil-on-plug ignition ". Jim

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

Dan- If you leave who else is going to yell at all the stoners in this forum?

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

hey finally somebody that lives close by YOHO shrewsbury

Re: young guys dont need the wisdom of the old I g

Hey there in New Hamp-sha!

Red Sox friggin crapped out tonight, _and_ I lost a sweet Pacer moped auction on ebay so it's been a fairly miserable evening here.

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