Honda PA-50 II Variator

Hey, I just picked up a PA-50 II and and just going through it making sure everything works and noticed that my variator is all screwed up, the delrin on the stock rollers is all square like and the plates and so forth have developed some grooves, it doesn't like to leave the original setting so it goes about 15mph, and if it does "shift" it goes about 24ish top speed. I am new into this whole moped business and have been calling and looking around for variator parts with no luck. I was hoping that somebody could tell me where to go to get a new variator and or rollers. I see the kit on www.50cc.nl and was not sure if that would fit or not. Any help or directions would be greatly apprectiated so I can get my new toy out on the road. :)

Re: Honda PA-50 II Variator

Hmm, Hey man, welcome to the Variator club.

Can you send pictures of your problem? It will help out a lot in diagnosis

Matt

Re: Honda PA-50 II Variator

repair of the damage you describe is kinda impossible .. keep looking for replacement parts. A complete front variator unit. Also thoroughly check out that rear unit.

"ebay often has whole parts bikes":http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1978-HONDA-PA50-HOBBIT-PARTS-BIKE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ84149QQitemZ4649054067QQrdZ1

That one is a PA50I but i'm pretty sure the rear variator unit is the same. (95% of the parts are interchangable from PA50I to Pa50II.)

"and various parts":http://motors.search.ebay.com/pa50_W0QQcatrefZC3QQfclZ3QQfromZR2

I dont see a rear wheel or variator today, but they do pop up often .. like a whole rear wheel, brakes, drive belt, etc for maybe $10.

:

btw, the bike will ride ok if you substitute solid pulleys for the variator.. make it a single-speed bike. It won't climb hills as well.

But this is an involved subject and requires some tools (like a lathe) and some skills on your part .. ask if interested.

Re: Honda PA-50 II Variator

Ya I would be able to machine some new rollers up and make it into a single speed if need be, i have a few buddies in a machine shop that with a case of beer or two will make them up for me :) Otherwise is there anything off a newer bike that would be interchangeable or can I just purchase the rollers? I think I mentioned that the variator has wear marks or grooves but I think the main problem is coming from the delrin caps just being worn out, they have like major grooves and I would almost say there are chunks missing out of them. Hope to hear back from you

Re: Honda PA-50 II Variator

i know exactly what you're talking about.. i've got a couple trashed variators and i've attempted various methods of repair.. and i've done a few things to modify the variator and the bikes overall gear ratio.

The plastic caps aren't Delrin or some other acetal.. that stuff is formaldhyde based and the burning smell is all wrong.

They are a low friction molybdenum filled nylon (as far as i can determine) That stuff is hard for a layman to get a hold of.

Making rollers and caps is no big deal if the material is available.

But caps and rollers are available for sale in many places.

The plates are the tough part.. the inner plate is an aluminum alloy. "Welding" up the worn ramps to build them back up and grinding it down smooth and proper is.. well.. it was beyond me.. my patience ran out.

the other plate is hardened steel.. applying heat to it will destroy the case hardening.. so repairing that without subsequent heat treatment is also out.

:

You could run it stuck in "high gear"... just jam the front unit to it's widest pully opening while searching for parts.

Re: Honda PA-50 II Variator

afaik, some driveline and wheels, etc from the PA50 series bikes are interchangable.

but the slower, 20mph PA50 l has front variator unit rollers that cannot move outward fully (lowering top gear), and it seems to have a different gears and gear ratio in the rear wheel gearbox along with a weaker engine (mild porting and a smaller carb).. so direct front variator and engine swaps are out. (silverfox.. you there? correct me if im mistaken)

And, as mentioned, Camino is the European name for the PA50 ll Hobbit. They never saw a PA50 l to my knowledge so parts found under a Camino name should work.

still.. hang on Ebay and grab a couple parts bikes..

Re: Honda PA-50 II Variator

Check on E-bay I saw some guy in WI had several of these parts bikes available. You should try to get a PA-50 II variator the go to the correct top gear. Pa 50 I will limit you to aprox 20mph. Good luck!

Re: Honda PA-50 II Variator

All the parts are available from cmsnl.com in Holland

Get them to send them by regular mail and the freight will not be too much.

Here are the part numbers. The prices are in Euros. These parts are from a 78 PA50II but I think they are the same for all PA50II model years:

Ramp plate 22131-148-700 E24.50

Roller 22121-148-700 E 3.50 X3

Roller guides 22122-148-700 E 3.50 X6

Slide guides 22132-148-700 E 2.00 X3

All items show in stock.

You can also try www.westernhillshonda.com

Get it fixed right, you will like it.

Good Luck

Re: Honda PA-50 II Variator

Thanks silverfox, I am gonna order up that stuff and get it running again, idk if the main unit is damaged enough to affect the performance so I am gonna try the roller's and plates and hold downs for now and run it...

Re: Honda PA-50 II Variator

As far as top speed, any roller wear or ramp wear reduces top gear ratio and top speed.

As far as the main unit and steel backing plate, the damage that matters is ANY wear on the skinny, curved ramps that the rollers make contact with..

The plastic caps make contact with the main aluminum unit ramps. The center, steel part of the roller pushes against the curve on the steel plate.

if i hadda make a guesstimate, a single millimeter of TOTAL ramp/roller wear will reduce top speed by maybe 2 mph.

Re: Honda PA-50 II Variator

Guys,

Honda still sells the rollers, and the caps. You can get a set of three rollers (including two caps for each) for like 3 dollars.

Re: Honda PA-50 II Variator

ok so im the really big newbie but what is a variator? is that the cvt tranny? im beyond new to these things. i am picking mine up on sunday and am putting it back together. its in peices. but for $11 i figured its worth it.

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