Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

I just did my first oil change. And I think my motor sounds different and there is more smoke then normal coming out of the exhaust, is this normal? Did I do anything wrong? Does the motor need more trans fluid?

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

Was it a transmission oil change, or it's the first time you mixed gas and oil?

_wal

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

when changing the transmission oil make sure its specifically for your type of engine, for instance I use automatic trasmission fluid type-F (ATF) a red liquid and will continue to use the same fluid until my engine goes dead. similarly when premixing oil/gas it's a good idea to stick to the same brand of two-stroke oil, i'm not exactly sure but I know it has something to do with the oil lining on your cylinder (someone expand upon this please), if you switch brands of two-stroke oil in your gas and notice changes in your exhaust it's likely the change in oil

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

it was the transmission oil change. i didnt know what kind was used by tomos but i used atf 1

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

The transmission oil in the gearbox is supposed to be completely isolated and separate from the crankcase (where the piston and crankshaft is).

So, any change in smoke generation shouldn't be due to the gearbox or it's lubrication type or level.

However, there are cases where a seal is broken and some transmission fluid finds it's way into he crankcase and is burned..

Double check everything you did.. perhaps you mistakenly mixed a fuel:oil batch with transmission oil instead of with 2-stroke oil?

What prompted you to mess with changing the oil in the gearbox in the first place?

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

as far as sticking to the same brand of 2-stroke oil .. there are a couple reasons i know of, but not related to a cylinder lining ..

one reason to use the same oil is if there's an oil-injection pump and resevoir .. mixing oil types is mixing chemicals and the oils could gel (or react in some way), clogging the pump .. result is no lubrication.

The other reason is also related to using a injection pump.. these pumps meter oil in a certain fuel:oil ratio. But some oils, notably synthetics or semi-synthetics require using much less oil and the pump's delivery is not adjustable.. too much oil will be delivered. This is bad because synthetics eliminate solvents.

These solvents would normally (as they do in "normal" oils) allow gasoline to mix easily with the oil. Without solvents other special additives need to be used.. and these additives can cause troubles if used in excess (stuck piston rings and similar).

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

i was told to tune up the bike at 500km. they told me to change the trans fluid. i did that and here i am. im thinking maybe i dont have enough, or maybe i have too much.

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

_I think my motor sounds different...there is more smoke then normal coming out of the exhaust_

Those symptoms should have nothing to do with transmission/gearbox oil on a healthy bike..

If your bike was healthy prior to changing the oil, the problems is elsewhere.. most likely related to the amount of oil mixed in with the fuel, since this 2-stroke oil is actually burned and produces some smoke.. Too much oil (or the wrong oil type) in the fuel can produce lots of smoke.

as far as increased noise, it could be related to the transmissioon oil if there is no oil in the tranny.. that would likely be a grinding gear-noise.. and the bike would run badly.

sooo.. What else did you do during the tuneup.. list everything.

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

thanks for clearing that up

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

I don't know about the smoking thing,but overfilling a Tomos transmission JUST A LITTLE,will cause a drastic increase in first gear noise,and delayed shifting.I had that problem with mine.I took the screw back out,and let it set level overnight.I couldn't believe how much oil dripped out.Now it sounds and shifts fine.I use DexronIII/Mercon ATF.I don't see anyway transmission fluid could cause exhaust smoke.That can only be caused by too much oil in the gas.If it has an oil injection system,remove it IMMEDIATELY before it destroys your engine,and premix at 40:1.I have used several different name brand oils,mixed at 40:1,and can't tell the difference.The main thing is to get rid of the oil injection system ASAP.

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

Tomos apparently ships their bikes without oil,so whatever was in it is what the dealer or previous owner put in it.I've never heard of ATF type 1.Theres DexronIII/Mercon,which is what I use,theres type F,which is what older Fords use,and theres type A,which is one of the fluids that Tomos recommends,but it is not commonly available in the U.S.,although it can be found.ATF is like motor oil,it has changed many times throughout the years,but the first 2 types I mentioned are the only ones CURRENTLY available at most stores.Jerry.

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

John Joedicke /

Mobil 1 same as dextron or mercon111

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

i used the DexronIII/Mercon, by quakerstate

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

how much is 40:1 ?? if i fill my tank up all the way how much oil should i put in? and should i take the whole oil punp off? or just detach it some how? i can i just keep it on and and do both oil manually and through the pump if its working or would that give me too much oil? is too much oil bad??

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

Jerry...

This perpetual rant of yours about ripping off oil injectors is freaky and totally paranoid and is scaring the hell out of a lot of noobs!

To say that an oil injector will destroy your engine and must be removed immediately is just BAD information and you should give it a rest or at least qualify your statement so it doesnt sound like a paranoid rant!

joew (whose mechanical knowledge and experience I respect) posted this take on the subject and I hope he doesnt mind me using his post but he sums it up much better than I could!

_Today, many hundreds of millions of vehicles from cars to airplanes totally depend on an oil pump and reservoir .. once in a while one fails and an engine is destroyed.. But if my mechanic suggested changing my car’s engine to a 2-stoke and premixing.. well.. i’d think he was nuts.

An owner who performs routine maintenance and is watchful for problems, as was done in this case, can be confident the system is working… (A whole lot of people woulda just fired it up, jumped on the bike and rode it to destruction).

Maybe it’s not for everyone, but I see no reason to abandon the injector system… in fact it would be nice to have it for change.. premixing is a chore i could live without._

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

I belive a part of the problem is the dealers who assemble the bikes(pinched lines). Another thing is the natural fact that oil lines harden over time and become loose causing them to leak. But I have seen the systems fail due to the soft aluminum drive coupling. It was a very poor design and I belive they changed to a different (better?) design in 01'. I however prefer the non-injected sprint motors.

Grey

Live to ride, Ride to work

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

Then the type of fluid is not the problem.Park the moped on a level surface,remove the screw on the side of the transmission,and if fluid starts dripping out,leave the screw out until it stops dripping.If nothing drips out,then pour some more in,until it starts running out,then let it set till it stops dripping.This way you will know you have the right amount.I put too much in mine once,and it made the transmission very noisy.Jerry.

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

I am not familiar with any other manufacturers oil injection system,but I know for a fact that the Tomos system is a total piece of junk.Yes,I know that several people have ridden their Tomos thousands of miles without problems,but they were just lucky.The Tomos system is a bad design,it is made of very poor quality materials,and very poorly assembled.I used to defend the Tomos system too,until I took a closer look at it,and found out what a total piece of junk it was.I am a professional mechanic,and I stand behind my opinion of the Tomos oil injection system.I'm just trying to prevent others from unnecessarily damaging their engines.Theres no reason for anyone to get paranoid over it.If they choose to use the system,they should at least check over every inch of it for problems.And since you quoted someone else,I suggest you read donp's opinion of the Tomos system.Jerry.

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

John Joedicke /

Could be paranoid too.

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

When I got my 1980 Magnum it was 25 years old and after reading all the scary posts on here I disconnected my injector pump and ran premix... the ZA50 case design doesn't allow the removal of the pump withouit fabricating a plate so I just left it on disconnected till I got a brand new replacement pump on eBay...

I replaced the pump and installed all new clear lines (carefully checking the connections) and reconnected it and I love it now!

I still put a small amount of synthetic oil in the tank as well but synthetic is clean burning and requires alot less to protect the engine so even if the pump fails I'm not worried about a seizure!

I know I'm running rich but I never foul plugs and the engine runs strong with a nice deep tone... and in a pinch I can always pull up to the pump and fill it with unmixed fuel without worrying about engine damage... to me it's the best of both worlds and I never worry about a thing :P

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

It is only the Tomos systems that I know to be junk,and Ellie has a Tomos,and is complaining about the engine smoking.It is likely in this case that the oil injection system is injecting too much oil.I always recommend anyone with an oil injected Tomos remove the system,and run premix.I am not the only one who feels this way.I'm not familiar with a ZA50,but the fact that you are putting oil in the tank,"just in case"the injector system fails,tells me that you do not trust it completely.All cars and trucks that I have ever seen use a wet sump lubrication system,and the oil pump is very reliable.In almost 30 years,I have only seen a couple of oil pump failures that were not caused by something plugging up the pick up screen.Airplane engines are seriously overbuilt,and have several redundant systems.I am not an aircraft mechanic,but I was a private pilot from '81-'83.Harley Davidson engines use a dry sump lubrication system,with 2 oil pumps and a reservoir.They are far better than the oil injection systems on most mopeds,but are still one of the most failure prone parts of the engine.Back in the '60s and early'70s,Japanese 2-stroke motorcycles with oil injection systems failed on a regular basis.Anyone who raced these motorcycles always ran premix,because of the consequences of an engine failure at high speed.Jerry.

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

Have you ever closely examined the oil injection system on a Tomos?Including where the lines are hidden behind the magneto cover,and where they connect to the pump?

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

The Oil injector that comes stock on Puchs is a Mikuni which is the same kind as the Tomos I believe... and I can't remeber reading any posts from Puch owners on here wailing about failed injector pumps... so I suspect if there is a problem with Tomos systems it is in the setup and the line placement and connections... as well as people who just dont remember to fill the oil reservoirs!

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

John Joedicke /

Hey Frat, I think you hit it right on the head. Have had 2 kitted LX's since 99 and both still pulling strong and both still using the injector system with a little extra in the fuel tank. No problemo with them what so ever.

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

I hope you continue to not have any problems with them.Jerry.

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

is it safe for me to put a little oil in the gas tank myself, every time i fill up? if so how much? a cap full? like whats the deal??

Re: Did an oil change, very loud and smoky???

If you intend to continue using the oil injection system,it will give you a little added insurance to add a little to the tank when you fill it up.I would say an ounce to an ounce and a half per gallon.This will hopefully prevent serious damage in the event the injection system fails.It will not hurt anything to use just a little bit too much oil.It's certainly better than not using enough.It may smoke a little more,and you may have to clean the plug a little more often,but thats better than ruining your engine.Did you ever find out what was causing the noise and smoking problems?Jerry.

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