Ciao/Bravo problem - dying

So I've got a ciao and a bravo doing the exact same thing:

It starts fine, no problems. But then when you drop it off the stand, it kills. It's not the idle or anything, it's like the engine instantly dies. Like it loses spark or something? You can pedal it off the ground and get it going, and it runs great, but sometimes when you stop it just cuts out.

The spark is good, and both electrical wiring seems to be in good condition.

This is so vague, but it's all I got! I've never seen this before, but now 2 of my bikes are doing it. Is this a condenser problem? That's the best I can come up with.



Re: Ciao/Bravo problem - dying

Bruce Wilkinson /

Hey Beamer, How the hell are you. bruce here. Check your clutch. Are any of the springs broken ?

Re: Ciao/Bravo problem - dying

When electrical components like the condenser or coil fail, the bike will then run like crap all the time or it may not run at all.

But if a bike starts, idles and runs perfectly fine for any extended length of time but suddenly just cuts out once in a while, first suspect some kinda wiring problem .. a bad kill switch connection or loose wiring or similar. If it started to happen recently, re-inspect everything near any work you did on the bike lately..

If the bike runs good but has an intermittant problem, the basic systems like carburation and ignition and their components are ok.. look elsewhere.

Re: Ciao/Bravo problem - dying

Hey Bruce! Doin' good =)

Clutch is A-OK =/

Re: Ciao/Bravo problem - dying

Okay I took it out and checked it out again.

After running full tilt for a little while, and then killing it. That's when the problem arises - when the engine is hot. If you let it cool down it's a charm.

Re: Ciao/Bravo problem - dying

first thing i'd suspect is the idle was not adjusted on a hot engine..

if both idle air and idle speed adjustments are available, go through the routine..

Get the bike engine good and hot.

Set the lowest idle speed possible (speed screw) ..till the engine threatens to die.

Play with idle-air (air screw) so that idle speed increases.

Again, lower idle speed to nearly dying.. And again play with the air to increase rpm..

Repeat speed and idle air adjustments until further idle-air adjustment won't increase rpm anymore.. You're done.


Otherwise you might have some mild piston seizure or something.. lots of friction when hot .. But if it will immediately start right up again without cooling off, this wouldn't be the trouble.

Re: Ciao/Bravo problem - dying

If this was the case - would it be hard to start? I give it some throttle and pedal like hell and it will start up.

What would be causing the piston to seize?



Re: Ciao/Bravo problem - dying

heat seizure grabs the piston and kills the engine when you slow down.. it's gonna be stuck for a while until the thing cools off a little. Seizure could be due to lack of piston-to-cylinder wall clearance.. new rings that weren't gapped and are now too tight.. lack of oil in the fuel mix.. glazed cylinder wall.. But these (and more) will show obvious evidence in the cylinder and/or piston's condition..

And then there's too high compression.. too advanced timing.. leaks in a (performance) exhaust system .. hard running in hot, dry weather combined with borderline-lean fuel:air mix.. blown head gasket.. intake vacuum leaks.. high exhaust backpressure.. and about a million other things that can cause very high combustion chamber heat.

hard to guess what's up without knowing lots more about the bike and it's history.

Re: Ciao/Bravo problem - dying

Okay well:

The ciao has a performance exhaust. I guess I should try putting another exhaust on there.

The Bravo's compression is extremely high. It's really hard to just pedal it. You kinda have to throw your weight just to get it going.

So these can cause piston seizure huh?

Re: Ciao/Bravo problem - dying

From the symptoms you decscribe it sounds like you have a problem with the starter clucth shoes on the Bravo. They may be installed backwards,

Pull the clutch and looking down into the clutch drum the shoes should be at the 2 and 7 OClock positions. It is easy to install them backwards so they are at 11 and 5 oClock.

I suspect a clutch problems also with the single speed Ciao.

What mods besides the performance muffler have you made to each bike? Upjetting, bigger non stock carb, etc. ?

Re: Ciao/Bravo problem - dying

take a look at THIS page about piston seizure..

I'm still not convinced what you have there is any kinda seizure related troubles.. you mentioned the pipe.. maybe added a carb too? Any porting done?

Some modified bikes won't idle no matter what you do..

Re: Ciao/Bravo problem - dying

Awesome, thanks for the link.

The Ciao has a performance exhaust, and it _did_ have a 12/10 carb, but now it's back to it's 10/10. The bike came to me like this.

Re: Ciao/Bravo problem - dying

I'll check the clutch out - but I don't think either of these bikes have ever been taken apart. The Bravo has 32 original miles on it, and the Ciao 300.

The ciao came to me with a performance exhaust and a 12/10 carb, but now it's back to 10/10

Re: Ciao/Bravo problem - dying

All the older Ciaos I have seen had a 12/7. Bravos are 12/10 and Grandes 12/12

Re: Ciao/Bravo problem - dying

Hmm, every one of my Ciaos is a 10/10, but maybe some countries had different ones.

I think it's been upjetted thinking about it. Could running it too rich cause this?

Re: Ciao/Bravo problem - dying

clean the carb good, mine did the same thing

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