Progress slightly made but need help

I've made a bit of progress on the 87 Motomarina Raven, but I still have a ways to go. I got the chain fixed and reattached, I put pedals on it (unmatching from some old 10 speed lol). I went and got a coil that fits it and is complete (other one was broken, and also got a new spark plug) still working on the petcock for it but I'm still at a loss for the grey wires. Does anyone at all have a wiring diagram for this moped?? Or do you know where to find one online???? The wires are grey and terminated with ring lugs. They do say amp on the ring lugs, if that means anything. I'm thinking that they all 3 attach to the 3 holes leftover on the coil to ground them. Or is there only 1 wire that usually attaches to the coil for ground???? As for why I wasn't getting spark, it turns out that my light bulb for the headlight is broke, so once I get a new one, I will try again for spark. Does the spark plug have to be in contact with something metal to test or held against the front end of the motor?? (I've been holding against the spark plug hole, but where I can see the end of the plug). Thanks all and ANY help would really really be appreciated.

Re: Progress slightly made but need help

have you tried Ike? you live in the area so you gotta know him, lol.

Re: Progress slightly made but need help

I posted on the forums the other day, still no word, but maybe it takes a while to get a response?? Local moped dealer he says he hasn't worked on a Motomaina Raven in about 6 years. I don't want to take it to him to fix it yet (don't know if he could), I want to attempt this myself. He didn't even know about the wires. I'm at a loss here. I'm sure she'll run if I can just obtain the resources or helpful information from someone that I need. I've gotten this far, I don't want to give up so early in the game.

Re: Progress slightly made but need help

your bike is somewhat unheard of, this is especially appearant if ike hasnt seen one for a while.

Its good to hear that you want to get it working on your own. Thats the true moped army spirit. I am annoyed by all the buggers that come onto the forums asking people to fix their bikes, and dont seem to read into what people have said recently.

Re: Progress slightly made but need help

It wasn't Ike that I went to for parts. His name is Lyle from Delphos. He has a small shop there, and deals Tomos' mopeds. He said he hasn't worked on one in about 6 years, and he's the one who sold it brand new in 1988, I have the original owner's manual.

I read about every post I can about moped repair and also the general section. I am willing to learn and I have to thank everyone on this site. They've helped me understand more about small engines in such a short time than I ever thought I could learn!! This ped is really awesome. I gotta go, the wind here is blowing all to hell, and it's scary. tornado hit here last year, SCARY!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Progress slightly made but need help

_As for why I wasn’t getting spark, my light bulb for the headlight is broke_

You can bypass all the frame's wiring and lights, kill switch, ignition switch etc, and check the ignition for spark. The way to do it is to directly connect the condenser wire to the points but to nothing else. Disconnect whatever additional wires go into the main wiring harness.

(Usually, the condenser wire splices up to the kill switch and other things.. activating the kill switch then "grounds" the condenser/points and the engine dies. Or, the condenser might be connected to the points only through the ignition and/or kill switchs.

In either case, preserve or make a connection between the condenser wire and the points but to nothing else. Then test for spark.)

_Does the spark plug have to be in contact with something metal to test_

Yes.. the plug's metal body must be well grounded to test for spark. Use something like a large metal spring clamp and clamp it to a clean spot on the fins on the cylinder.

Re: Progress slightly made but need help

Wow Joe, you just totally confused the hell outta me. 'Congratulations' lol. Now see, I have no idea what the condensor wire is, or what it looks like. I do know abouts where the points are, but I've never been that deep into a moped engine. I know it has to do with the 3 GREY wires, but I don't know Where they connect. Like I said, I think they connect to the coil, but I am no expert...... I really really don't want to mess with the wiring anymore because I have NO idea what I'm doing, and I most likely would end up in a bigger mess. I really appreciate the help, but I guess I'll reserve that as a _last resort_ . Thanks so much though.

Re: Progress slightly made but need help

hey angie you can get a better idea of the function of the wires if you maybe try and trace them through the bike and see where they go... the coil should have three terminals - one of them should be an input from the magneto, one of them should be an output to the spark plug, and one should be a ground; in all the scenarios that i have seen this is hooked up to the frame with a short little wire with a lug on it through which you can run one of the coil bolts when you are connecting it to the frame. i've never seen a motomarina raven but i don't see why the coil should be particularly wierd. the "amp" stamped on the lugs is simply the manufacturer mark - amphenol is a big producer of connectors for the electrical industry

but yeah joew has a good suggestion, if you really suspect that there is a problem with the wiring the best thing to do is just pull everything from the harness except the bare minimum of things required to make the bike run.

good luck; i like your do-it-yourself spirit and that motomarina looks like a hot bike from the few photos we have here on the site

Re: Progress slightly made but need help

I understand where you're at .. just like anything else, electrical is difficult without some knowledge about it.

Thankfully, these bikes have the simplest of ignition systems and it won't be too hard to eventually pick up on it...

Basically, i explained how to test for spark even if some lights or switches or wire on the bike are broken..

Grounding the condenser-points wire kills the engine.

Making sure nothing could possibly ground that wire insures that if a spark is possible, the spark plug will spark.

-------

A "condenser" can quickly absorb (and discharge) electrical energy. Internally, all it is is two separated metalic plates. One plate is positively and one is negatively charged, kinda like a little battery.

An ignition system condenser is a shiny little metal can-shaped thing, about 3/4 inch diameter and 1-1/2 inch long. It's body has a metal strap/tongue whereby it's screwed and grounded to the engine or frame. The condenser could be mounted near the ignition coil or inside the flywheel where the points are..

One black wire comes from the condenser and this wire is somehow connected to the points.

Since it's connected to the points, if this wire is grounded no spark can be produced.

Re: Progress slightly made but need help

It is a really nice bike. I like the style of it too. Seems to me it's a bit bigger than a Tomos. (higher up off the ground, but I'm only 5 foot 2) It's got a real comfy seat too. This moped has almost 8,000 miles on it. I know it's gone far and seen a lot of places, and held up through many miles. The wires that run down and are grey run up to the switch for the high and low lights and horn button. I have looked all over the moped and can't find a place where they would mount, and they aren't all that long. The wiring (pretty sure) goes down into the points and flywheel area. I have tried to find a wiring diagram for this moped, but they just aren't there it seems. I am getting a bulb for the headlight tomorrow, so I will try that. My last resort is pulling all the wires off and running only the bare essentials. I just don't want to make things worse. Thanks for the useful help the sean. I figure it can't be that different from most mopeds. So if only 3 wires run to the coil, these 3 wires do not belong there. I'm sincerely confused, but I won't give up, I like the fact that I am very persistant and I don't give up easily.

Re: Progress slightly made but need help

Joe,

I'll try to see if I can find the condenser. What if it is missing?? Lol, the way this kid was, I wouldn't be suprised if maybe it is. What if I can't even get it to spark then??

Re: Progress slightly made but need help

A missing condenser is very unlikely .. and replacing it if it is missing is a simple thing.

Someone who knows what to look for would probably get that bike running in a heartbeat.. There are only a few things that could cause no-spark and they are easily diagnosed. Since you're an electrical newbie, try to get some local hands-on help with the bike and save yourself a lot of time..

But simple magneto-type ignition systems are all basically the same. Study any wiring diagram from any similar bike/system and you may be able to figure it out yourself.

Re: Progress slightly made but need help

Hi Angie,

I just started reading this thread, and wanted to mention something important.

When you are testing for spark, do not put the spark plug over the plug hole. If the engine has a source of fuel, it's very possible that when you spin the motor over to look for spark, a fuel/air charge will escape from the plug hole, and be lit by the spark.

I've had this happen myself once, and I've seen it happen several times. One time, back in tech school, a student was leaning over a snowmobile engine, looking for spark. When he pulled the starter, the exploding charge literally blew the hair off his face, eyebrows were gone, hair singed off etc. It was almost as loud as a shotgun.

So, just ground the plug body someplace, where it cannot light the escaping charge.

Re: Progress slightly made but need help

Legendre,

I thank you for the warning. This was something I did not know. There is no gas at all in the tank or engine. There is someone in Van Wert here that seems really handy with mopeds that has offered to help me. I'll most likely be in touch with him this weekend to see if he'll come over and help me figure it out. Lol, someone who knows mopeds would have had this thing running on the very first day!! It may take me my very first month LOL!! I guess to me, if it has more than 3 wires, I am scared to touch it, I'm a very forgetful person lol. Took the headlight off to get the old bulb out, and it took me about 15 minutes to get it back on right LMAO. I was trying to put it on upside down. Well, at least most of the other more common things aren't at a total loss to me. I can tighten nuts!!! :D Thanks again all for the help, you are all really smart individuals with a lot of that "whaddya call....ummm...mechanimical skills LMAO." Sorry all...just happy it's FRIDAY

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