Oh, i forgot to mention, the condition of bolth these peds was 5 years ago they stopped running, befour that they ran rough, then they have been sitting in the back yard (in minnesota) for 5 years. they ar free for me to take if i want them, so i would appreciate some opinions as to if its worth it. like i said, im reasonably mecanicly able, and i dont mind spending lots of time, just not lots of money. if someone is in the mpls / st. paul location and is good with mopeds, how about one of these in trade for some help rebuilding one? appreciate the feedback 50plus, very helpful.