No Power in my Ciao Vespa

Liz Nayadley /

My moped used to race all the time and would not idle. I cleaned the carb. and now it idles but, it has no horsepower (not that it had it before). I checked to see if the exhaust was clogged by taking the muffler off and looking up into the engine. All was clear. The muffler doesnt appear to be clogged either. It does run a bit faster with the air filter off. I changed the fuel filter because I do have a semi-rusty tank. Any suggestions as to what I should try next? It has no pickup and I doubt it would carry me up a steep hill...

thanks,

lizzo

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

Bruce Wilkinson /

Did you ever drain the gas tank, take the petcock off and flush the tank ? The air box must be on the carb tight for it to run properly. Is the drive belt loose and slipping ? Which filter did you change ? bruce

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

Liz Nayadley /

I drained the gas tank but, did not take off the petcock and flush it. What do you use to flush a gas tank? water doesnt sound right? I will double check the air box but, I am pretty sure it is on tight. Where exactly is the drive belt and if it is loose how would I tighten it? I changed the in-line fuel filter because it had a lot of sediment that I could see. Bruce-how fast does your Ciao go? Where could I buy a new air filter?

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

Bruce Wilkinson /

Hi Liz, I have a Ciao and a Si and I can't remember if the Ciao has a screen filter on the petcock or the Si has one.If you do drain the tank and remove the petcock then be careful not to twist the whole petcock around, just turn the nut on it. The petcock has a tube that goes in and then upward so it has a lower opening( for reserve) and a higher opening on it for regular gas flow. Rust sediment gathers and clogs the petcock at the bottom of the tank. When I did mine I got a handful of crap that came out. I just held my finger on the petcock hole, poured in some gas, tilted the moped, let go of the hole and caught the gas in a glass bottle. You can see what comes out. Repeat many times using the same gas just don't put the crud back in. The banjo also has a filter that might need cleaning. It's at the top of the carb at the end of the fuel line.I'll post more later , got to go now. bruce

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

This sounds more like a points issue to me, since I've been through it before with my girlfriend's ciao...take the left panel off and behind the clutch you'll see the cooling fan...on the fan there will be a black rubber rectangular plug. Take that off with a standard screw driver and adjust the points through that hole to 0.4-0.5 mm and you're all set!

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

Well i had this same problem. My situation was 3 weeks of perfect running after a full rebuild from my 79 ciao standard sitting for 12 years. Every once in a while while i was riding i would start to looses power... i thought it was a compression problem but...i tested out fine. So, i took off my carb and cleaned it again for the 2nd time in a week. Thats what it was again..our main jet is soo dam tiny it clogs on hair. Ive installed 2 inline filters and a brand new petcock and i havent had the problem since. my cioa tops out at about 32 mph and cannot climb hills woth a shit. IT is need of a new drive belt.

good luck

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

Where is the drive belt and how can I test it to know if I need a new one? I am going to try to check the points too like dan suggested. You think I should clean the carb again? When I slowly get it up to top speed it is kinda hesitant like it is running out of gas maybe.

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

it sounds to me like urs is runnning lean in the top end (dirty or damaged carb) if the drive belt has excessive dryrot and deep cracks ...replace it...

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

Bruce Wilkinson /

Sounds like a dirty carb but cleaning it will only last a while and it will clog again from the rust in the gas tank.Clean the carb and see if it helps and then you'll know. The drive belt is under the plastic side cover, left side. It should be fairly tight so it won't slip. There should be a little bit of 'play'when you squeeze it together.The points are a little tricky, eliminate a gas problem first.

My Ciao tops out at 27 mph, I wish it did 32. bruce

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

im pretty goddamn skinny at 6'2" 155 lbs so i may have a weight advantage...btw what fuels are yall using?

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

I am about 125 so I think the Ciao should carry me...I use regular (85) gas mixed at a 50:1 ratio with 2 stroke oil.

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

Liz Nayadley /

Ok, so I am in the middle of cleaning out my gas tank. I pulled out the petcock and both filters were full of rust particles. Apparently there is a ton of rust at the bottom of the tank. I have been flushing with gas and digging some of it out with a small screwdriver. This might be a really dumb question: Could I stick a garden hose in the fuel tank and really flush it out? I know it seems dumb since water is what caused the rust in the first place but, there is SO much rust in there I can feel it with the screwdriver. Are there any easy products out there to coat the tank with? When it is all flushed out I think I will put a second fuel filter on like someone suggested.

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

Liz, I would NOT recommend flushing with water!!! And, I don't think easy and tank cleaning are often used in the same sentence. There are many references to how to best do this including Fred's Guide which is on this site. It is a messy job any way you cut it, but must be done. You may want to find a reputable motorcycle shop that will do it for a reasonable charge. There are several different products/techniques for doing it. Again, because that tank is "integral", it will harder. Good luck with your research and repair.

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

Ooops..just checked Freds and there is nothing on flushing...search this site for info....

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

actually the tank coating products like Kreem suggest one phase of tank cleaning does use soap and water.. I wouldn't have a problem throwing some nuts and bolts in there plus water and dish soap and shake it .. then repeat the steps.

Rust takes a long time to form. Anyway, it aint like you are wetting a pristine gas tank interior.That tank is already rusty and you will not 'wash' that rust off.. Best you are gonna do is knock off the big stuff. Water is cheap and safe. Use it.

Then go look at the tank coating products on the net or in the motorcycle shops. Kreem is a popular one.

Also, why add another filter? It's just gonna clog up. Your filters are doing their job and once you Kreem the tank those screens will not be dirty again anyway.

I would add a filter if those screens _did not_ catch the rust. That means they are broken.

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

Bruce Wilkinson /

Hi Liz, Do not put nuts and bolts in yuor tank. The Ciao tank has an indented filler tube and it will be VERY hard to get then back out. A kreem kit will clean and coat the tank so no rust will reform. It is not an easy job. You will need a couple of strong guys to turn the entire moped over and over many times to coat the gas tank. I did mine and never have had a carb problem since. If you don't want to do that then you con fill your tank with vinagar and water to eat the rust away. Let me know what you decide. bruce

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

oops.. one of those built-ins tanks? hard to shake that :)

And the bolts will have to be fetched out with a grabber thing..

Well, nothing worthwhile comes easy.. or so they say.

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

how about this.. Rent or borrow a protable cement mixer. Wet cement weighs a hell of a lot..

Dump 5 or 10 pounds of whatever.. nuts bolts into the tank and strap the whole bike to the front of the mixer and turn it on for a couple hours.. Bungee-cord the wheels so they dont flop around.

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

Liz Nayadley /

I am thinking about doing the kreem kit on my built in gas tank. I have read a couple postings suggesting removing the engine. Do I really need to do that? I know the moped needs to get flipped to coat the tank.

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

I dunno why they say remove the engine unless it's to reduce the weight.. if the bike is dry there are no liquids to spill.

But if it has a gear box this box may have a vent and oil may drip out? Draining that oil would be an option here.. but I know nothing about your specific bike.

btw, a 2-stroke engine will run in any orientation. There is no oil pump with a pick-up tube and a resevoir of oil that must stay at the bottom of the crankcase. The only thing it needs is a carburetor that doesn't rely on gravity. Chainsaws use a diaphram pump carb.

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

Bruce Wilkinson /

Hi Liz, Joe is right, leave the engine on but drain the gear oil in the rear hub. There is a drain and filler ( same bolt ) on the rear wheel hubTake out that slotted bolt and tilt the moped over and catch the oil in an old container then put the bolt back on.Two guys can turn the bike over in all directions no problem. After you finish don't forget to refill the hub with SAE EP 90 gear oil.

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

I think that I am just going to stick to vinegar to eat away the rust in my tank. I am a little nervous about using the Kreem kit. The paint is in great shape and I don't want to risk spilling anything on it. My brother has a pressure washer and I used that to blow out all the loose bits of rust inside the tank...a lot came out. Now I filled the tank with vinegar. How long should I let it soak?

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

Bruce Wilkinson /

Let it soak for 3 or 4 hours and drain it into a container to reruse it. Have a look inside with a flashlight and dental mirror to see how it has worked so far. Repeat as needed and flush with your power washer.Before you refill the tank with gas, blow the inside dry with a compressed air hose or use a hair dryer. I would buy some water evaporator for car gas tanks and slosh some around to take all the moisture out. Fill the tank as soon as you can because rust will start to form right away. Try to keep the level of gas as high as possible in the tank, in other words, keep topping it up each day so rust can't form. Good luck, bruce

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

i read the process Kreem recommends for cleaning a tank and i didn't like it either. I think it's way too involved and requires buyying more of their products and it's all too much work.

But the Kreem coating itself is excellent. Even if the tank is very rusty inside and you don't remove any rust, the Kreem will coat and seal and prevent that rust from flaking off.. and your fuel lines will stay clean for years.

I know because thats the situation i found my tank in. Look inside and thick rust is everywhere but a thin white coating of Kreem keeps it where it is. There are metal plates soldered to my tank where it rusted completely through.

But my petcock screen is immaculate when i remove it...

My tank cap was very rusty inside. (i actually took it apart so i know) The outside was clean. The cap's vent holes would clog up once in a while and engine performance was erratic.. sometimes the bike would slow down for no reason. Since i took this cap apart and sandblasted it performance is better everywhere. I'm not joking.. i can't be 100% sure this cap vent alone caused erratic fuel delivery but i'm pretty sure..

So, you may want to get a new cap. If i was a gambler, i'd bet you whatever you like that if you open that cap up, it is packed with flakes of rust. Sticking a wire into the vent holes will not help it.

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

Bruce Wilkinson /

If the cap is the same as mine then it is made of plastic with a measureing cup attached on the bottom. The two tiny vent holes are on the side of the tube . Make sure they are not blocked as Joe said they might be. bruce

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

oops.. well, it may still apply if the top of the cap is metal. My cap was all metal..

Just for general consumption, if an old tank is really rusty then it's a good bet that any metal parts in it's cap are too. Mine was literally packed with flakes of rust.

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

Liz Nayadley /

The vinegar worked great on the ole rusty tank. I hit another snag though...someone had broken the petcock stem with the intank filters in half and soldered it together. Well, it broke again in the same spot so now I am going to try to solder it again. I guess it would be a bad idea to put the petcock back on with only the one intank filter especially since my tank is notorious for rust. What if I put the filter at the end where it broke off?

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

Bruce Wilkinson /

Hi Liz. I broke my petcock off when I took it out. I put mine back with only the lower opening working so I don't have the normal flow, just the reserve opening at the bottom. I kreemed my tank though. If you can solder it, then do it. You might seal the hollow tube doing it though. Try it as it is and put an inline filter on the gas line. bruce

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

Bruce Wilkinson /

Hi, liz , bruce here again. Just wanted to ask you if youv'e ever heard of a 70's rock band from Denver called Zephyr. I have an album called Sunset Ride and never get tired playing it. bruce, Toronto, Canada

Re: No Power in my Ciao Vespa

Liz Nayadley /

bruce-i have never heard of Zephyr but, i have only been in denver 5 months. I put the petcock back on the way it is and now i've got a leak coming from it. I think i am missing the gasket that goes between the tank and the petcock. So yet another bump in the road. I took it for a test ride and it runs just the same as if I had never cleaned out all that gunk in the tank! (only now i've got a new gas leak that i didnt have) i suppose I should clean the carb? it doesnt accelerate very fast and when i get it up as fast as it will go it is hesitant. any thoughts?

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