Somebody tell me Please...

Was I Right or Wrong.

After my post about philosophical argument, I have a question for you all.

I know legally where I stand. I’m screwed. But I want to know what the court of public opinion says.

So,

I have lived in a rented house in Germany since Jan 2018. This is our 3rd summer here. My landlord is a nice guy. The property managers are with a real estate agency of the rudest, bitchiest people you can imagine.

We have had tons of problems with the house. None of them my fault. Many have caused me serious hardships and I have been very kind and considerate during the troubles. The landlord and I actually seemed to have a decent relationship because I showed respect and concern for keeping his investment protected.

One issue has evaded resolution. An upstairs bedroom has a sloped ceiling with a skylight type window. The shade was missing when we moved in and they said it would be replaced. It was winter, we didn’t care.

Next summer, since german houses have no A/C or ceiling fans, it was apparent that the heat buildup in that room was intolerable. My daughter couldn’t be in there during the day, even with the window wide open, and it was still miserably hot at bedtime since the sun doesn’t set until 10pm or something. We mentioned it, and an incompetent repairman was sent to fix it. He didn’t bring anything. He said he may have a part to do the job at his shop and left. He never returned, but we waited patiently.

The next summer, my wife griped at me about furthering my complaint since the room was terribly hot. I did. The repair man came back with a window shade that didn’t fit and was missing pieces. He said he would go look for the pieces... and never returned.

I’m not incompetent and don’t have patience for someone jerking me around like that. So, I bought some cheap, white, 10mm foam board and taped it to the window. It worked a charm. My kids room was cool and comfortable.

Possibly, the heat difference cause by that board heated the window on the one side and the glass cracked. I reported it to the landlord, explaining that the window shade hadn’t been replaced in years and we had to do something. He referred me to the real estate agents. They treated me like the worlds dumbest criminal and insisted I should pay to fix the window.

I know that I negligently caused a situation that may have broke the glass. I can admit that. But they also refused to fix a problem and caused an entire room of my house to be uninhabitable for several months of the year.

If I was the landlord, I would point the finger at the property manager or the repairman. But, the tenant, who in good faith tried to make a temporary remedy to the discomfort cause by the formers’ neglect wouldn’t be my whipping boy.

What do you all think?

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

Jimmy Cincinnati /

Personally I feel they failed to deliver somethIng they promised. You were forced to make some sort of remedy and I think what you did would have been the majority of peoples fixes... myself included. I think the fault lies with the property management/ owner. Granted I'm speaking my personal opinion and not from a legal stand point. Stand your ground or insist they refund some of your rent for failure to deliver on a promise which likely influenced part of your reasoning for renting there.

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

Dirty30 Dillon /

This is 100% a failure of the property management company.

Ideally, you would have recorded evidence of the interior temperature along with dates and times, so that you could prove that the room was uninhabitable. Barring that, you will at least need a record of attempts (by you) to have the obvious inconvenience resolved.

Take the time to look-up renters rights in Germany as well, here in NYC landlords are required to provide certain levels of heating/cooling to apartments, if they don't you can react by withholding rent until the violation is rectified.

It sucks that you have to deal with this, but I can't I see how the foamcore board was the sole cause of that window cracking.

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

Thanks guys.

The housing office (the military, on base liaison for Americans here) has advised me that the house has to be safe and heated. There is no guarantee for cooling and that window shades and rolladens are options that the landlord can supply, but aren’t required.

I think that may change along with climate change. A house with no a/c and ample south facing windows is not going to be habitable during long periods of extreme high temps.

Most of the house has rolladens. We open windows at night and close everything up during the day. The house is concrete and does a good job of regulating temps if you cooperate with it.

Just that one room with its skylight magnifying glass window. It’s literally at the same angle as the track of the sun. The laminate floors are bleached and separated from the heat. The laminate peeling off at the seams. It’s really hot in there.

I can handle paying for it. It’s nice to know that reasonable people think I wasn’t too far out of line. Even if I could argue that I’m right and win, the battle here would be so prohibitively complicated, only a fool would choose that path rather than pay and be done with it. THEY know that and that’s how they get you.

I’m also a little burned by the Landlord. Thought we were tighter than that. He had two classic cars occupying the garages. He moved them out and rented the space to me to build my moped and store my motorcycle. Always seems to be genuine. He’s also a retired multi-millionaire. So, squabbling over a window seems petty.

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

The landlord is at fault and you shouldn't pay for the window, quite possibly even get some rent back. This might piss off your landlord, but he doesn't seem all that friendly anyway.

There are probably several German institutions that will help you with these kinds of things.

Here in the Netherlands there are government subsidized places where you can get free legal advice, Germany will probably have something similar.

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

Thanks again Bas. That’s encouraging. But I’m in a tight spot here for time.

I can’t talk freely about my job, but let’s just say I’m not gonna be around to deal with this nonsense and I don’t want to stick my wife with it.

I have free legal council and can go that route. I might just price the window repair first. I totally would save money and get a better job if I did it myself. But that’s not allowed. They need a legit business invoice in case of future issues.

My brother in law in Belgium is a carpenter and probably could help, but they just went “red” and I doubt he wants to come here for this.

Shit happens.

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

If you replace the window use aluminum foil on the window to block the sun and reduce the heat..there won't be any heat build up to crack the glass

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

got pics of the broken window? I spent many years studying fracture, might not actually be the heat

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

Sure. I ask my daughter if the window was hit or slammed shut. She said the wind blew it closed on day. It’s normal for windows and doors to bang shut from a passing breeze. But, it was too late for that argument, I already offered up the heat thing 😒

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Re: Somebody tell me Please...

I highly doubt they even sell aluminum foil in Germany, since all aluminum cookware was banned in Europe years ago.^^^ lolz! That's thermal pane glass. If its the outside pane thats broken then install a one-way reflective film on the inside pane to reduce heat while letting in some light. Nice tile roofs on the houses.

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(edited)

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

> live ɘvil Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I highly doubt they even sell aluminum foil in Germany, since all

> aluminum cookware was banned in Europe years ago.^^^ lolz!

Aluminium cookware isn't banned in Europe, that's a pretty weird myth though.

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

Overpriced Parts /

> Pops Peds Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> If you replace the window use aluminum foil on the window to block the

> sun and reduce the heat..there won't be any heat build up to crack the

> glass

Yep I did something like that in the attic window of the house I used to live in,

What I did was to buy Polished aluminum clad 1inch foam board and cut to fit the 4 windows,

Not only did stop the sun, it stopped the sound too.

It cool enough with just the down door opened With a the fan placed there and The insulation on the windows helped with the soundproofing a lot so we had a small three-piece band practice there twice a week (Our drummer had to use the thinest sticks he had though) and the neighbors didn’t complain

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

Pushrod Fifty /

You went overboard already to remedy someone else's responsibility.

I would leave as is, tape to stop any water enrty if necessary and skip rent to make up for your security deposit before you leave.

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

How was that lolz^ <<<<<<¿ i took it he was looking for low cost way to fix it .. most people have a roll of foil in the kitchen even us backwood rednecks (edited)

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Re: Somebody tell me Please...

> Bas Autowas Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > live ɘvil Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > I highly doubt they even sell aluminum foil in Germany, since all

>

> > aluminum cookware was banned in Europe years ago.^^^ lolz!

>

> Aluminium cookware isn't banned in Europe, that's a pretty weird myth

> though.

If all these boomers can make up shit so can I.

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

Oh, you surpass us Boomers in imagining stuff by 1000 per cent. LOL!

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

ok, yea that totally broke from thermal expansion ha, so at least that's umm, pretty identifiable? foam backing that almost definitely caused it too .

you gotta be careful some of these solutions^ might be worse if you're making uneven heating.

Anyway.. I see it as 2 separate things. 1)the landlord was required to fix it and didnt, and 2) you fixed it, and it broke.

1) is a landlord negligence issue, if you can prove that then you've got a case to have them address the issue. This however is a separate ssue vs the cost of the broken window. but they're def on the hook to address the temperature problem once the window's repaired.

cuz 2) the window's on you. your lease almost definitely prohibits you from making that kinda alteration and definitely wouldn't cover the damage.

I think technically the proper course would've been after the supplied repairman failed to remedy the problem, to hire your own repairman (insured etc) and deduct it from your rent while providing documentation. Even if you can "repair" it yourself, that puts you totally liable for it. You should probably still do this after the window's fixed. Don't rely on above suggested self-remedies, get a repairman so you're not liable, and hold the receipts, deducting it from your rent, being very clear about how much and why and it'd be good to have a record of them failing to fix it with their own guy. Tell them that's your plan before you do it, might light the fire under their ass.

If it were me though, I'd have done pretty much exactly what you did and be in the same place with a broken window and bummed and angry cuz it's definitely unfair, but despite being unfair, still you're suck paying for a dumb unpredictable mistake.

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

WillD,

I appreciate the evaluation. I figured out early that I stood no chance of winning the case as far as the payment is concerned. But it means more to me to know that decent people would have done something similar and feel that I’m getting the muddy end of the stick. I’m a reasonable person. Like, I think about things before I do them. So, if a series of events leads me to a logical conclusion and my actions turn out to be dead wrong, it really hits me hard.

Lesson learned. Hope anyone reading this is spared a similar situation.

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

one winter my friend's toilet wouldn't flush, it'd frozen in the tank (pretty much an outhouse - bathroom was attached, but outside the insulated part of the house)

I though, easy lets pour in some boiling water off the woodstove. easy

well no shit that cracked the tank right in 2. of course it did. doesn't require a ceramic scientist specializing in fracture to tell you dumping boiling water on top of freezing cold ceramic will break it. fuckin egg faced for that one...

but until it broke it didn't even cross my mind, hindsight it was real obvious but there's so many things that could go wrong with any action it's impossible to not fuck up regularly.

whenever people talk about what they're saving up their money for, we usually contend that "we save money to replace the shit we haven't broken yet"

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

One winter night, around -25*F in Ohio, the floor vent in my house blew warm air under the curtain onto the window.

Crack

I have broken coffee mugs with hot espresso, and glass cookware with water.

So I should have had an idea. Now I have experience 😒

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

> Don Ohio Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Oh, you surpass us Boomers in imagining stuff by 1000 per cent. LOL!

Google is your friend fox news is not...

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Re: Somebody tell me Please...

That says aluminum COOKWARE not aluminum foil....i guess you don't know the difference..

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

Expandusceramics.com is obviously the best website to get your German legislation from.

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

punkrock randy /

That shouldn’t have cracked the glass, probably something else. Tell your landlord to piss off. And Pops, you backwoods rednecks definitely have aluminum foil, and we all know why. White shitbag’s drug of choice, methamphetamine. In fact, that’s why I’m installing a camera system in the secret bunker. People scrapping out all the copper and trying to cook some shit down there.

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

I know meth is all around but have no clue about aluminum foil used with it....i know enough about it to know it has ruined alot of lives..

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

punkrock randy /

Yeah, I’ve always been choosy about my drug use choices. Meth has never gotten me excited, seen others experiences from it and didn’t even need to try it. Turns peeps into sketchy thieves that care not for any friends or family.

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

I have to agree with randy..i don't think heat buuld up from taping styrofoam on the window did it....if it had an air pocket that would be able to build pressure from heat is any way involved i would think the styrofoam would give before the glass ..it would have to be sealed really well ,almost air tight and some very strong styro to do that

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

It was the gas sealed in between the panes that expanded and cracked it. If that is what happened. If the windows aren’t sealed, then moisture gets in and the window fogs and gets mildew inside.

Re: Somebody tell me Please...

> Pops Peds Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> That says aluminum COOKWARE not aluminum foil....i guess you don't know

> the difference..

Yes pops, I know you use foil for everything...

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Re: Somebody tell me Please...

> Papa _ Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> It was the gas sealed in between the panes that expanded and cracked it.

> If that is what happened. If the windows aren’t sealed, then moisture

> gets in and the window fogs and gets mildew inside.

The glass and or frame expanded enough ( from excessive heat build up) to crack it. Or when the wind blew it shut it was damaged. (edited)

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