Re: New cars are shit

Blaine- The artist formerly known as Plumber Crack "(OFMC)" /

“So I guess I should have said new cars are shit to keep for decades and pass down to multiple drivers... for that the old cars are better“

It’s still possible. Even though Subaru’s commercials would have you believe you’ll be doing that with your Subaru, i think you’d have a better chance if it were a Honda or Toyota.

Another aspect on old vs new. The drivers.

Knowing how to change a tire. I think this statistic figure has dropped significantly.

Knowing how to install snow chains. “What’s a snow chain?”

Checking the oil level. This used to be something the driver had to have the sense to do, or have someone else do it for them, on a regular basis. If they forgot, usually the attendant at the full service station would remind them by asking “Would you like me to check the oil?”

Now most the “full”service stations are gone, gross oil consumption isn’t a common issue on most brands anymore, and checking the level between oil changes isn’t a routine for most people.

Since oil level isn’t on the top of everyone’s list, neither may be regular oil change intervals. And now many manufacturers are recommending oil change intervals as high as 7,500, even 10,000 miles. This works in my favor sometimes. After maybe 9000-10,000 miles, there’s no oil left in some cars, it’s towed to the shop, and i get to replace an engine.

Most BMW’s seem to have more oil on the outside of the engine than on the inside. The only reason they don’t die more often is because most of them hold 7-8 quarts. I believe they’re designed to hold more oil because they know they don’t know how to design an engine that doesn’t leak.

And that lower engine cover thing with the absorbent mat on it. Pretty sure this is to keep oil off of the owners garage floor until the warranty has expired. Some will try to say the “mat” is for sound deadening. I call bullshit. Sound deadening for who? The road? And just how efficient are they at deadening sound when they’re all saturated with oil?

As a mechanic, i’m still dumbfounded when i ask someone to “pop the hood”, and they don’t even know where the hood release is, and they’ve owned the car for years.

@don. I enjoy reading a well written service manual, or good article on new technology, but i have no time for fictional books. I am aware that i may have social skill issues, but i’m ok with that.

Re: New cars are shit

Dirty30 Dillon /

It's Easter, and I wish Jesus had bought a new car instead of trusting that old cave.

Re: New cars are shit

Those that don't even know where the hood latch is are wet dreams to car manufacturers, they don't care about any owner other than the first one. That said, many who don't know, also don't even begin to care, they are usually well off, and can well afford any repair needed, or a new lease every 2 yrs. It is only if you are not wealthy that you need to learn to take care of a car. I'm always dumbfounded when I see people at a shop, all lined up to pay a bill, in the thousands...you can see it is hurting them, but they do it as they need the car, now, had they brought it in when the brakes started making noise instead of waiting until it will no longer stop at all, and brought their own parts vs paying shop mark-up, that bill could have been in the low hundreds, I know many are not interested in how a car works, but I don't know anyone who enjoys throwing money away, so a little knowledge and time =more $ in your pocket.

Re: New cars are shit

> Blaine- The artist formerly known as Plumber Crack "(OFMC)" Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> “So I guess I should have said new cars are shit to keep for decades and

> pass down to multiple drivers... for that the old cars are better“

>

> It’s still possible. Even though Subaru’s commercials would have you

> believe you’ll be doing that with your Subaru, i think you’d have a

> better chance if it were a Honda or Toyota.

>

> Another aspect on old vs new. The drivers.

>

> Knowing how to change a tire. I think this statistic figure has dropped

> significantly.

>

> Knowing how to install snow chains. “What’s a snow chain?”

>

> Checking the oil level. This used to be something the driver had to have

> the sense to do, or have someone else do it for them, on a regular

> basis. If they forgot, usually the attendant at the full service station

> would remind them by asking “Would you like me to check the oil?”

>

> Now most the “full”service stations are gone, gross oil consumption

> isn’t a common issue on most brands anymore, and checking the level

> between oil changes isn’t a routine for most people.

>

> Since oil level isn’t on the top of everyone’s list, neither may be

> e regular oil change intervals. And now many manufacturers are

> recommending oil change intervals as high as 7,500, even 10,000 miles.

> This works in my favor sometimes. After maybe 9000-10,000 miles, there’s

> no oil left in some cars, it’s towed to the shop, and i get to replace

> an engine.

>

> Most BMW’s seem to have more oil on the outside of the engine than on

> the inside. The only reason they don’t die more often is because most of

> them hold 7-8 quarts. I believe they’re designed to hold more oil

> because they know they don’t know how to design an engine that doesn’t

> leak.

>

>

>

> And that lower engine cover thing with the absorbent mat on it. Pretty

> ty sure this is to keep oil off of the owners garage floor until the

> warranty has expired. Some will try to say the “mat” is for sound

> deadening. I call bullshit. Sound deadening for who? The road? And just

> how efficient are they at deadening sound when they’re all saturated

> with oil?

>

> As a mechanic, i’m still dumbfounded when i ask someone to “pop the

> e hood”, and they don’t even know where the hood release is, and they’ve

> owned the car for years.

>

> @don. I enjoy reading a well written service manual, or good article on

> new technology, but i have no time for fictional books. I am aware that

> i may have social skill issues, but i’m ok with that.

Sad to say,Blaine, you're going to find out what books are fictional soon. World events are indicating the time is very short. There are 66 books that are very true. They never have to back up and say, like science,`oops,we were off the mark there'. You should at least investigate how the prophetic book of Daniel gave the prophecy of the 50 weeks of years that were to expire 3.5 yrs. after Jesus' sacrifice for us.

Re: New cars are shit

getting back to new vs. old cars...

i have a 2018 ford transit connect van. it's a FWD 4-cyl auto (i'm not an automatic guy). i use it for work, hauling a trailer. the thing is awesome, has plenty of power, and gets great MPG. i haven't had to work on it, but when i do, i'll recalibrate my old brain to do so. my experience a few years ago working for my friend as a mechanic's helper familiarized me with newer stuff. though i'm not a mechanic, i'm way less intimidated now than i used to be with new cars.

that said, i'm way more comfortable working on my old 6-cyl rambler, or an old moped or motorcycle. that's a no-brainer--it's what i grew up with, and they are easier to navigate.

i'm not so arrogant to think that because i've worked on a lot of stuff, and/or because i worked as a mechanic's helper, that i know everything. i'm a backyard tinkerer like most people who posted here. besides the one person who posted who currently is a professional mechanic, i'm guessing everyone else here is also a backyard tinkerer. some with more skills than others, and some more arrogant than others, both in their beliefs about cars, as well their beliefs regarding spirituality.

i know one thing...i feel safer in that transit connect than i feel in my old rambler. i also trust it on a trip a hell of a lot more. granted, if the rambler were to break down, i can fix it with a rock and a stick (what i love about old stuff), but that old engine isn't going to get 200,000 miles on it without getting torn into. very few do, especially old V8's. new cars do, and i like that.

i used to despise doing timing belts (still not my favorite job), but i did a couple, lived through them, and it's not that bad.

i tend to think that some of what has been said on here by non-professional "mechanics"--folks who fancy themselves as knowing what they are talking about--may actually be adversity to newer cars due to lack of knowledge on how to work on them. i get it--i am intimidated by some of the complexities of my newer vehicle, also. but leastwise, i can admit that.

in summary, new cars are not shit--they are just light-years more technologically-sophisticated than a '62 falcon with a straight-6. if taken care of, they are designed to last a hell of a lot longer before having to be broken into--some more than others, but all of them are built better on many levels, IMHO.

that's my two cents on the topic.(edited)

Re: New cars are shit

Jimmy Cincinnati /

some more arrogant than others, both in their beliefs about cars, as well their beliefs regarding spirituality.

Careful Kev, your agetting lured back in!

i tend to think that some of what has been said on here by non-professional "mechanics"--folks who fancy themselves as knowing what they are talking about--may actually be adversity to newer cars due to lack of knowledge on how to work on them. i get it--i am intimidated by some of the complexities of my newer vehicle, also. but leastwise, i can admit that.

Ignorance breeds hate. Granted i do believe auto makers want to keep mechanics out of the hood and new cars selling. But thats the way of the world. Apple does it with their iphones along with tons of other industries. The reality is, if everyone kept their car for 20+ years a lot of auto makers would go out of business which would both increase car costs and kill innovation.

Re: New cars are shit

> Jimmy Cincinnati Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> some more arrogant than others, both in their beliefs about cars, as

> well their beliefs regarding spirituality.

>

> Careful Kev, your agetting lured back in!

>

> i tend to think that some of what has been said on here by

> non-professional "mechanics"--folks who fancy themselves as knowing what

> they are talking about--may actually be adversity to newer cars due to

> lack of knowledge on how to work on them. i get it--i am intimidated by

> some of the complexities of my newer vehicle, also. but leastwise, i can

> admit that.

>

> Ignorance breeds hate. Granted i do believe auto makers want to keep

> mechanics out of the hood and new cars selling. But thats the way of the

> world. Apple does it with their iphones along with tons of other

> industries. The reality is, if everyone kept their car for 20+ years a

> lot of auto makers would go out of business which would both increase

> car costs and kill innovation.

your first point is duly noted. i chose my words carefully as to make my point in a way that was both kind and succinct.

as far as your second point, i agree, but i want to counter with the fact that all "new" technology takes lay people--regular folks who don't wrench for a living and who have average to decent (but not pro status) mechanical abilities--a while to get proficient at it. in 1962, that falcon would have been just as challenging to grandpa who learned to wrench on a '37 pontiac, and who's skill set was still geared toward something that old. i can hear our grandpa example complaining now..."automatic choke? what's wrong with just pulling a lever on the dash? this fancy 'automatic' stuff is way too complicated!" in other words, it's all reletive.(edited)

Re: New cars are shit

kevin Smellaflange /

so... the car makers use the best materials?

& use the most capable people?.

& pay the best wages?

have the best incentives?

what was the most popular car ever made and why?

did they sell 50+ million?

could almost anyone work on it?

was it meant for the people?

did they have whole companies sprout up just to keep the owners in parts?

if your car doesn't meet some of these concerns then why would you own what you've got?...desperation? can you fix 98% of your car?

why not?...NO DESSERT UNTIL YOU'VE ANSWERED ALL TEST QUESTIONS...this means you!

Re: New cars are shit

one more point i'd like to make is that i think a lot of folks who grew up around malaise-era US-build cars got pretty jaded about then-new technology, because new cars during that time in general were garbage.

this is not the case today. the auto industry--namely detroit--has worked this out, and the cars from the '90's forward are actually pretty decent.

Re: New cars are shit

rockauto has sent me the wrong or non-fitting shit on 3 outta my past 5 orders. Istill order there cuz it's cheap, fast and very well organized, and even when I have to send parts back because somehow they sent a 4 hole rotor for a 5 lug vehicle or whatever, the corrected replacements still come in sooner than many other options.

Re: New cars are shit

Jimmy Cincinnati /

so... the car makers use the best materials?

They dont now and they didnt then. I was talking to one of the ex-higher ups from GM and it was amazing how much variation you would get in motor weight. Like 1 engine block could be 10lbs+ heavier than the next one in the same line.

& use the most capable people?.

My grand father and his brothers were all union ford people from the 60's & 70's... they weren't "most capable" then either. They told me stories of what the union would do to someone that would work too hard and make other union employees look bad. Time for my mandatory 15 minute crap.

& pay the best wages?

I actually think high union wages are a big issue with quality of cars. They are paying out the butt for low level line workers thus driving up car prices. Which is funny because i had to do some work at a ford plant once and since i drove my Hyundai there they made me leave it at the gate because they could not ensure none of their employees would leave it alone.

did they sell 50+ million?

Comparing the beetle to a modern car is not fair. People have so many more options these days where back then if you wanted cheap you had what... 1 or 2 options??? Back then it was either drive this car or walk... by the way which would you rather have a radio or heat?

could almost anyone work on it?

Back then it was either drive this car or walk... by the way which would you rather have a radio or heat?

was it meant for the people?

Hitler did want a car for the average family. haha sorry i had to bring this up.

why not?...NO DESSERT UNTIL YOU'VE ANSWERED ALL TEST QUESTIONS...this means you!

I fail to see your checkmate move here.

rockauto has sent me the wrong or non-fitting shit on 3 outta my past 5 orders.

I personally have never had and issue with them, but my brother has. But then again ive had alot of issues with Autozone so its par for the coarse i think.(edited)

Re: New cars are shit

> Born to be WillD Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> rockauto has sent me the wrong or non-fitting shit on 3 outta my past 5

> orders. Istill order there cuz it's cheap, fast and very well

> organized, and even when I have to send parts back because somehow they

> sent a 4 hole rotor for a 5 lug vehicle or whatever, the corrected

> replacements still come in sooner than many other options.

Try Partsgeek.com, just as cheap, and I have always gotten the correct order.

Re: New cars are shit

Dirty30 Dillon /

Rock Auto is flawless. I do not buy any car parts, anywhere else.

Just spent $500 on assorted suspension components from them. All brand name stuff, Bilstein, Moog, Mopar, etc.

Re: New cars are shit

I have never had an issue with Rockauto either, just throwing out another option that has worked just as well for me. Either one saves a fortune over paying shop rate for parts, or even buying at local parts stores.

Re: New cars are shit

kevin Smellaflange /

there was no checkmate move...just some of our car history that the millennial folks may not realize.

i know a few 21 year old woman who still don't drive.

they are too afraid of the city traffic & mass pike scares them...Hitlers, vw bug, not good on the 80 mph high ways

Hitlers b-day was Saturday by the way...no one cares, but a women i know shares the same b-day & she hates it for that.

Re: New cars are shit

Overpriced Parts /

> Brent Eaton Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> there was no checkmate move...just some of our car history that the

> millennial folks may not realize.

>

> i know a few 21 year old woman who still don't drive.

>

> they are too afraid of the city traffic & mass pike scares

> them...Hitlers, vw bug, not good on the 80 mph high ways

>

> Hitlers b-day was Saturday by the way...no one cares, but a women i know

> shares the same b-day & she hates it for that.

You know a few women that don’t drive? a lot of these young people women or men don’t drive, they take mass socialist transit, there’s nowhere to park, tent cities going around everywhere, I mean the American dream of owning a auto is gone for the most of young people both of the west and left coast, in ny they want you to pay a toll just to go through the city,

I use to protest back in the 70s against the horrible contaminating nuclear power plants when they trying to build them near me (which all are now defunct)

I’m too old and beat up to protest, but this crap is ridiculous!

Our country is huge! both coasts should not run our country!

Re: New cars are shit

Jimmy Cincinnati /

I mean the American dream of owning a auto is gone for the most of young people both of the west and left coast, in ny they want you to pay a toll just to go through the city,

Not from what i see, i know alot of teenagers that have cars. I do know a few people that choose not to drive but its not from lack of transportation options. My wife a few years back got a zero interest loan on a new Nissan Sentra ($18,500 out the door) and she had next to no credit.

Re: New cars are shit

Dirty30 Dillon /

> Ken Roff Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> A lot of these young people don’t drive, they take mass socialist transit

I take mass transit every day I don't ride, and it's anything but socialist. In fact, it's about the most harshly capitalist thing I can think of.

It gets pretty tiring hearing the same old tropes and anecdotes from people concerning the youth of today, meanwhile the majority of this specific community is comprised of young people who are not weak willed or trust-funded, who are not incapable, and who are nothing but complete self-starters and DIY'ers.

Maybe if y'all paid more attention and spent time with young people in the world, chasing dreams and struggling, instead of haunting forums and reading chain emails you would know the truth of it.

Re: New cars are shit

Overpriced Parts /

> Don Ohio Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I have the OHV 4.0 in my Aerostar, and it will run forever. OHC engines

> are NOT superior. They are just more trouble.LOL!

You must be lucky! Ford Aerostars, the one I worked on, the one my brother who bought one new had that he was able to return because of the lemon law and everybody I knew who had one were always a piece of crap but from what I understand it depends on what plant they were made at, Mileage and if the rear end/other recalls were done and maintenance was done correctly so you could have a halfway decent one if it was taken care of and all those factors were in place!

I wouldn’t buy a used one if my my life depended on it if one came up for sale in my area for I know of at least three people I used to work with, that within a week of purchasing a real totally low mileage one the rear end came apart even though they said/the recalls were done they probably weren’t, very extensive body and hip injuries from a left front crash my one friend had when a drunk driver went left of center with a tiny Toyota Prius!

Enjoy just don’t get in a crash with one!

Re: New cars are shit

kevin Smellaflange /

i find most of the millennial to have much less of a work ethic where it matters.

the younger ones pushing a lawn mower from house to house has the 'older guy' landscape companies sprouting up to fill that void.

iv'e seen this starting from 2006 on.

anyone who takes issue is usually covering their own actions, they think getting out of bed & playing on their phone all day is part of ''work''...

...these types are constantly asking someone else to fix whatever they just broke...but they know their way around glowing screen.

Re: New cars are shit

Overpriced Parts /

> Jimmy Cincinnati Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I mean the American dream of owning a auto is gone for the most of young

> people both of the west and left coast, in ny they want you to pay a

> toll just to go through the city,

>

> Not from what i see, i know alot of teenagers that have cars. I do know

> a few people that choose not to drive but its not from lack of

> transportation options. My wife a few years back got a zero interest

> loan on a new Nissan Sentra ($18,500 out the door) and she had next to

> no credit.

Do you live on the west or left coasts.?

I’m sure you don’t! For most of the people who live in midwestern states have to drive!

That’s why we cannot live our lives by what the west or left coasts do!

that’s why there is the electoral college! It’s amazing how 243 something years ago they were way ahead of their time (not 400 years ago like some dumb politicians I cannot say who said that because of there is no freedom of speech nowadays!) when the Constitution was written,

The Constitution like classic cars, motorbikes, guitars and classic rock music are timeless!

Believe me I’m all for change as long as it’s for the good of mankind!

Re: New cars are shit

kevin Smellaflange /

in new mexico & Texas has 200+ miles between the towns iv'e been to, but not everyone has a car.

coastal kids (anyone under 30 years old) don't need their own cars as much as a young person in Houston Texas.

out there before cell phones it was c.b.radios & base stations..an coastal kid would need to google what a c.b. radio was.

Re: New cars are shit

Quote K-evil: ` old engine isn't going to get 200,000 miles on it without getting torn into. very few do, especially old V8's. new cars do, and i like that.'

Any v8 of that era that DIDN'T get 200 K was either mistreated or maintenance on it was iffy.

There were exceptions, but the majority of the OHV v8s were great,long-lasting engines.

Re: New cars are shit

> Don Ohio Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Any v8 of that era that DIDN'T get 200 K was either mistreated or

> maintenance on it was iffy.

LOL

Re: New cars are shit

Blaine- The artist formerly known as Plumber Crack "(OFMC)" /

> A Zed Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Don Ohio Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > Any v8 of that era that DIDN'T get 200 K was either mistreated or

>

> > maintenance on it was iffy.

>

> LOL

Obviously this depends on which reality you’re from.

Re: New cars are shit

As I said...….` There were exceptions, but the majority of the OHV v8s were great,long-lasting engines.'

I happen to be from the REALITY that I LIVED in the garages of that time. The engines were fantastic, just that a lot of the motor oil and air filters were lousy. Going 200K in those conditions attests to just how good those engines were.

Motors like the 289,302, 390 and 429 in Ford and the 170 and 225 slant 6 and the 383 Chrysler, and the 327 , 350 GM V8s were common equipment yet great ones.

Re: New cars are shit

Angry Hipster /

Even if the older engines are shorter lived they are much easier to replace.

Re: New cars are shit

> Don Ohio Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> As I said...….` There were exceptions, but the majority of the OHV v8s

> were great,long-lasting engines.'

>

> I happen to be from the REALITY that I LIVED in the garages of that

> time. The engines were fantastic, just that a lot of the motor oil and

> air filters were lousy. Going 200K in those conditions attests to just

> how good those engines were.

>

> Motors like the 289,302, 390 and 429 in Ford and the 170 and 225 slant

> nt 6 and the 383 Chrysler, and the 327 , 350 GM V8s were common

> equipment yet great ones.

any carbureted engine from back in the day--especially a V8--that logged 200,000+ miles without being torn into had to be one well-loved, extremely babied (and consequently worn-out) anomaly.

200k miles were not routinely logged (sans a top end at minimum) on old US-built car engines until the advent of EFI.

leastwise, this is the reality in which i'm from.(edited)

Re: New cars are shit

> A Zed Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Don Ohio Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > As I said...….` There were exceptions, but the majority of the OHV v8s

>

> > were great,long-lasting engines.'

>

> >

>

> > I happen to be from the REALITY that I LIVED in the garages of that

>

> > time. The engines were fantastic, just that a lot of the motor oil and

>

> > air filters were lousy. Going 200K in those conditions attests to just

>

> > how good those engines were.

>

> >

>

> > Motors like the 289,302, 390 and 429 in Ford and the 170 and 225 slant

>

> > nt 6 and the 383 Chrysler, and the 327 , 350 GM V8s were common

>

> > equipment yet great ones.

>

> any carbureted engine from back in the day--especially a V8--that logged

> 200,000+ miles without being torn into had to be one well-loved,

> extremely babied (and consequently worn-out) anomaly.

>

> 200k miles were not routinely logged (sans a top end at minimum) on old

> US-built car engines until the advent of EFI.

>

> leastwise, this is the reality in which i'm from.

EFI has nothing to do with it. Lots of engines went 200K. And as I've belabored before,they did it on inferior tires,oil, very little streamlining, inferior oils,filters,RADIATORS and cooling systems,antifreezes,and usually NO overdrive. In my book they are superior to ohc engines.

Something goes wrong like a flat lifter? Easy-Peesy. No contest,K-evil old boy! LOL!

Re: New cars are shit

What I find amazing about this thread is it started bein a complain about actual frustrating issues and plnned obsolescence in newer cars, and almost everyone was on board, but the OP and others were SO stubbornly unwilling to admit benefits of newer vehicles that it turned into most people arguing in favor of the merits of new cars. Like there was an opportunity to agree, or even agree to disagree, but inevitably it became a contest of one-upmanship.

Which I USED to think was a bad thing, the sort of thing that's avoided in-person when you're much more likely to meet in the common ground than push harder and fortify your differing positions.

But it's this argument, with all the emotion entailed, that's kept us all coming back for 6 pages, where it otherwise might've petered out after 2. As much as we complain about the trolls and the hatespeak and hoarish ole codgers or smartass young whippersnappers - it draws us in... I mean ultimately this forum, offtopic especially, is for entertainment, and evidence suggests we find the arguments most entertaining...

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