How to Fix Your Moped

Read this guide to figure out how to get your moped to run... or maybe run better.

If you have a specific question about a specific part... scroll down .. you might find that part covered with its own section.

(no changes have been made to this guide)

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GENERAL MOPED TROUBLESHOOTING and TUNE-UP PROCEDURES

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It takes 3 things for an engine to run.

1... Gas

2... Spark

3... Compression

If your engine doesn't run... 1 of those 3 things is gone.. or not good enough.

(if your engine has all 3 of those things.. IT WILL RUN.. it does not have a choice!)

The 3 most common reasons why mopeds don't run are....

1... dirty carb (inside)

2... fouled spark plug.

3... dirty, worn, or mis-adjusted ignition points.

The dirty carb is the most common reason.

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BASIC TROUBLESHOOTING (follow these steps to get it to run)

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The first thing to check on a moped that won't run is to see if you have spark at the spark plug.

Pull the old spark plug out put a NEW spark plug in the cap and hold the metal part of the plug firmly against the cylinder head while you kick or pedal the moped rapidly with the key and switch on.... it will help to do this at night or in a dark garage to make it easier to see the spark.... it will also help if you have 2 people... 1 to pedal/kick, and 1 to hold the plug firmly against the cyl. head... you are looking for a blue spark to jump the gap on the plug.

Make sure you have a good spark plug to start with, a black or gunky or wet one will not spark.

It is smart to just buy a new plug to start with.. you can always save it for later if the old one turns out to be good.

(working for hours only to find out it was a bad plug is extremely frustrating)

If there is no spark.... clean the ignition points (like it says below)

If there is spark... squirt a little bit of gas (like a spoonful) into the spark plug hole and try to start it.....if it starts and runs for 5 seconds and then dies, then check for fuel flow to the carb (like it says below)

If you have fuel flow to the carb and spark at the plug and it still won't run.. then clean the carburetor (like it says below)

If you have done all those and it still doesn't run... go to the part that says...

..... What Else? ....

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GENERAL TUNE-UP

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FUEL FLOW to the CARBURETOR

Remove the fuel line going into the carb.. turn the gas on.. does fuel flow freely out the gas line?.. No?.. You may have a vacuum operated petcock (if you do there will be another rubber line going from the engine to the petcock).. take this second line off the engine or carb and suck on it and watch for fuel flow out of the other line... If no flow, you must take the petcock off and disassemble and clean it.

CLEANING the CARBURETOR

Clogged or dirty carburetors are the most common reason for poor performance.

The parts of the carb that are dirty or clogged are the small holes inside the carb (air and fuel passages).. not the outside.

You can not see the stuff that is clogging the flow.

YOU MUST USE COMPRESSED AIR to blow it out!... that dirt and crud has been accumulating for 20 years in some cases... it will not just fall out.. you need it to BLAST the dirt out from those small passages.

The carburetor must be removed... then you take off the float bowl (on the bottom)... then you remove the brass "main jet" in the middle of the carb... try to blow air thru it ... now hold it up to the light and look thru it... it must be clean and clear.... if it is not clear you must poke a piece of fine wire thru it.... a wire plucked from a wire brush works good.... or some soft multistrand copper wire like from speaker wire or lampcord wire... don't use a drill bit, it might damage the brass or make the hole too big.

Next you should screw the idle mixture screw in.... (Before you screw it in...look at where the screwdriver slot is at... then count how many turns it takes to go all the way in gently... like 1 3/4 turns or whatever, and remember that number for later)..... then remove it and all other screws..be careful.. don't forget where everything goes.. and don't lose anything!

Now you must clean out all passages in the carb with aerosol carb cleaner and compressed air... (like 80 psi)... with a blow nozzle... squirt the cleaner in ALL THE SMALL ORIFICES one by one followed by a blast of compressed air.... while you are blowing air thru the holes feel with your fingers to feel where the air is coming out of and blow the other way too.... DO THIS SEVERAL TIMES.... then reassemble all the parts.

It is even better to submerge the carb overnite in a can of carb cleaner (remove rubber and plastic parts first)... then blow it out.

Remember to turn the idle mixture screw back out to its original setting... usually between 1 and 2 full turns out from all the way in) and reinstall the carb.

Putting a capful of gas treatment in your gas tank occasionally will help keep the inside of the carb clean.. (go to the bottom to read more about this)

The IGNITION

Older engines have "breaker points" ignition.. which can get dirty, wear, and need adjusting occasionally.

You will find them by looking through holes in the flywheel.. (under a cover on either the right or left hand side of the motor)

Newer motors don't have points.. they use an electronic ignition called a CDI.. and there is nothing to clean and set.. but you can still check the timing with a strobe light.

CLEANING the POINTS

You can clean them through the holes in the flywheel..(you don't need to remove the flywheel)

To clean them you need some sand paper (use 400 grit wet and dry sandpaper), a piece of clean paper, some scissors, and some aerosol brake cleaner or carb cleaner and some compressed air with a blow nozzle.

Remove the ignition cover and look for the points in one of the holes in the flywheel.... lay the bike over on its side and sit on a milk crate or something to get comfortable.

Then cut some thin strips of sandpaper (like 1/4" wide, 3" long).... pry the points open with a small screwdriver and stick the piece of sandpaper in between the points and let them close.... then pull the sandpaper out.... do this SEVERAL TIMES TO EACH SIDE till they are smooth.... now pry the points open and blow them off with compressed air... then spray them with the cleaner.... then cut a strip of the clean paper and pry the points open again and drag the paper thru a few times (the paper should come out clean, and should drag through smoothly).... blow them off again with air while open.... now they should be good.

WHAT is IGNITION TIMING ?

Correct ignition timing means the spark plug is firing at the correct moment in the engines rotation.. a little before TDC (top dead center.. when the piston is closest to the spark plug).

The spark plug fires the instant the points "break" open.

You want the points to open when the "F" mark on the flywheel lines up with the mark on the engine case.

Look on the outside of the flywheel for some lines and letters.. there should be a T mark next to a line... and an F mark next to a line... There should also be a mark on the engine case .. the T mark will line up with the mark on the engine case when the piston is at TDC.

To find the mark on the engine case.. you can remove the spark plug and stick a screwdriver in the hole against the piston and turn the flywheel.. when the piston pushes the screwdriver the farthest out, the T mark will be lining up with the mark on the engine case..

The points should have already opened BEFORE that.. they should just START to open when the F (Fire) mark lines up with the mark on the engine case.

To check this accurately you would need to have special tools.

But to do it without those tools... go to the next step.

CHECKING and SETTING IGNITION TIMING

You check and set the timing with the flywheel ON (you don't remove the flywheel)

Clean the points like it says above FIRST.

There are 2 simple ways to set and check timing.

1.. The easiest is by setting the point gap.

It is not real accurate.. but it is usually good enough for a ped motor to run OK.

To set the gap you just rotate the flywheel near where the F mark and the engine mark line up.. watch the point gap... wait till the gap is at its biggest.

You want this gap on most peds to be about the thickness of a thin piece of cardboard.... about .015"... or (.4mm)

They sell "feeler guages" at a tool store to check this gap... or...

or a macaroni and cheese box is.................. .018"

or a Girl Scout cookie box is.................... .016"

or a small breakfast cereal box is about......... .016"

large breakfast cereal box's are................. .020"

... if you use the large cereal box... your timing will be a little bit advanced from stock.

So if you cut a thin strip of one of those you can use it as a "feeler guage".

Then you LOOSEN the small screw that holds the small point's set down.

And then you can pry the points set around with a screwdriver in the "pry notches" they have... the gap will get bigger or smaller depending on which way you move it.

You want to adjust it so that the cardboard slides in and out nicely.

Not too tight.. not to loose.

Now tighten the screw back down.

Now check the fit again... because tightening the screw can change the gap.

Sometimes you have to do this a few times to get it right.

You have just set the point gap to get the timing close.

2.. A more accurate way to set timing is by ignoring the gap and doing the "cigarette paper method".

For this you need a very thin piece of paper (like cigarette rolling paper..or a cigarette pack piece of cellophane)

All you do here is put the thin strip of paper between the points... and keep light tension on the paper (like as if you are gently trying to pull it out) while watching the F mark and the case mark as you slowly rotate the flywheel with your other hand.

Remember you are rotating the engine in the direction it normally travels (CCW as viewed from the left side of the bike..CW as viewed from the right)..

....The paper should slip out just as the points start to open when the F mark lines up with the case mark.

..So.. it's...one hand on the flywheel.. other hand on the paper...eyes on the F mark.

If the paper pulls out too late.. you will have to move the points for a larger gap.

Too early.. move the points for a smaller gap.

(NOTE.. If a tiny piece of paper tears off and stays in the points... You will get NO spark... pry them open and blow them out)

XXXX You can get MORE accurate by using electronic equipment to tell exactly when the points open.

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....... OK.... WHAT ELSE...????.......

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... I've checked for fuel flow to the carb

... I've cleaned my carb THOROUGHLY

... I've cleaned and set my ignition points

... I've got a fat blue spark at a brand new plug

But my moped still won't run... or it runs like CRAAAAP!

........... Why ?? ..........

Some common reasons why.

... The muffler is clogged with carbon

... The exhaust port is clogged with carbon.

... The rings or cylinder are worn out or damaged and don't have enough compression.

... The air filter (going into the carb) is too dirty to flow air very well.

... The air filter is missing, and the engine is getting too much air.

... Your head gasket is leaking.

MUFFLER CLOGGED with CARBON

A moped whose muffler is clogged will usually start and run... but will not run very fast.

To test to see if this true with yours... remove the muffler and run the ped without the muffler... (it will be loud).... if your ped goes a lot faster... then the muffler is probably clogged.

To unclog it you need to get it real hot and burn it out... one way is to attach a coathanger wire to it and set it into the coals of a hot campfire... pull it out every 5 minutes or so to make sure it is not melting it... turning orange is OK... melting is not.

You can also unclog it with an oxy-acetylene torch by warming up the outside till it is orange hot and them blowing flame down into the pipe and pulling the oxygen trigger.... only do this if you know what you are doing... you could damage the pipe badly if you don't.

Either way when you are done with the burning out you need to bang out the ash that will be left over after it cools down.

EXHAUST PORT is CLOGGED with CARBON

Same as a clogged muffler... it will run but not very fast.

To check this.. remove the exhaust pipe and look into the exhaust port (on the cylinder)... lay the ped over on its side to get a good view.

You should be able to rotate the ignition flywheel with your hand while looking into the port and clearly see the piston going up and down.

If you can't... you need to remove the head and cylinder and thoroughly scrape out the exhaust port with a screwdriver or old metal butter knife... scratches in the port won't hurt anything.

But try not to scratch the cylinder where the piston rides up and down.

WORN OUT RINGS and CYLINDER and PISTON

........(test for compression)........

A quick way to do an easy test for this is to remove the spark plug and have someone kick or pedal the motor rapidly while you hold you finger or thumb FIRMLY over the spark plug hole.

...You must wiggle and squish your finger down on the hole and your finger must be big enough to TOTALLY cover the hole... push hard... now pedal or kick.

.. The piston and rings should compress the air enough to blow your finger right off the spark plug hole.

.. If it doesn't blow your finger off the hole then your compression is low, and you need to remove the head and cylinder and look for the reason why.

Look for scuffing and scoring on the cylinder and piston skirt.

Or it might have had a seizure and smeared aluminum from the piston on the cylinder and even smeared melted aluminum over part of the rings.

If there is no scuffing and scoring, and there is no evidence of a seizure and the moped has over...say... 5000 miles on it with the same rings... buy new rings and install them correctly.

If there is heavy scuffing and scoring in the cylinder... then you need to buy an oversize piston and rings and have the cylinder bored and honed to fit them.

INSTALLING PISTON and RINGS CORRECTLY

Everything should be cleaned very carefully before you put a new top end together.

Dirt now will ruin parts very quickly.

You should also smear the piston and cylinder with 2 stroke oil fresh out of the bottle with your finger.

The piston is only supposed to go in one way... It should have an arrow on the top which is supposed to point at the exhaust port (away from the carb).

Rings are usually (but not always) supposed to be installed one side up... they usually have some very small letters on them which go on the top (towards the spark plug).. look very carefully.

If they don't have small letters on them...Look closely at the ring ends and the type of the pin and you will see how they mate together.

Next you have to locate the ring end gaps correctly on the piston... look closely in the piston ring grooves... you will see a small pin in the groove... the ring ends go right at those pins... (if you have 2 rings the pins are NOT in the same location for both)

The difficult part is compressing the rings with your fingers while keeping them in the right location (at the pins) while sliding the cylinder onto the piston.

It is not easy... Just keep trying and take a break if you have to.

It is frustrating for everybody at first.

AIR FILTER

Engines are designed to run with air filters to keep dirt out so that the piston and rings and cylinder will last a long time... if the air filter gets clogged with dirt or too much oil.. it will richen up the air/fuel ratio and slow it down, maybe foul spark plugs, and maybe cause the engine to "four-stroke".

Foam air filters can be cleaned in gasoline and allowed to dry... then LIGHTLY be oiled (just use a LITTLE oil and try to spread it around)

Paper filters can be blown off with compressed air (or buy a new one)... use NO oil.

Pleated cloth ones (in a wire gauze..like the K&N brand) can be cleaned in gasoline and be LIGHTLY oiled with light oil (like ATF)

Running with no air filter can cause the engine to get too much air and lean out and possibly seize.

If the engine runs a lot faster with no air filter then your main jet in the carb is too big (and many of them are too big... especially Euro peds)

LEAKING HEAD GASKET

Some mopeds don't use a head gasket....Most do.

First... The head nuts should be tightened correctly.

Loosen them all.... then tighten each bolt or nut a little at a time (like an eighth of a turn at a time)... in an X pattern... till they are good and tight... but don't overtighten them and strip the threads.. If you have a torque wrench the correct figure is usually 9 foot pounds (for a 6mm thread size).

If you have a leak you can sometimes hear compression squeezing out past the head gasket... pfft... pfft... pfft.... Or look closely between the cylinder and head to see if it is oily... this usually indicates a leak... Or remove the head and gasket a look for black traces of soot on the surfaces of the gasket or head or cylinder.

Head gaskets on 2 stroke mopeds are made of metal (usually aluminum...sometimes copper).

Metal head gaskets can be reused over and over as long as you didn't damage them by bending them badly.

I would not recommend a gasket made of all purpose gasket material for a head gasket.

That is similar to paper and is not made to withstand the heat and pressure of combustion.

Paper head gaskets are OK for an emergency... but don't be surprised if it doesn't last very long.

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ENGINE TUNING

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READING SPARK PLUGS and JETTING and PLUG CHOPS

Two stroke engines are sensitive to the level of heat inside the engine.

The main jet size in the carb is the main determiner of how hot the engine runs at wide open throttle.

Too hot and they will seize the piston.

Too cool means they are not making full power.

Engines get the hottest when they are running at wide open throttle making maximum HP.

"Reading" a spark plug is the best way to see how hot your engine is running.

Reading the plug means looking at the ceramic insulator inside the plug and checking its color.

The color will indicate the overall level of heat in the engine.

Reading the plug requires fully warming up the engine by running it for about 10 minutes... Then making a top speed full throttle run for a half mile or more, then killing the motor and stopping and pulling the spark plug on the spot.

That is called.."Doing a plug chop".

When doing the "plug chop"... It is important to chop the throttle and turn the engine off with the switch or key and then pull over to stop... You don't want the engine to idle... that will change the plug color.

You can wait till the plug cools... the color won't change.

The color of a plug on a correctly running engine is a light brown or tan color.

Lighter than that means danger of a piston seizure.

Darker than that is OK... But real dark or wet looking means your main jet in the carb is too big (too rich)... pull it out and look at the number on the side and buy the next size smaller (leaner).

Note... To get an accurate plug reading takes a fairly new plug... a plug with 2 years of crud on it will never really show the true color (or heat) the engine is running at.

JETTING and ADJUSTING the CARB

Jetting refers to changing or adjusting the parts of a carburetor that control fuel flow.

The "main jet" controls the fuel/air mix at top speed.. and is the most important jet to get right.

On most carbs the main jet is a small brass piece inside the center of the float bowl screwed into the carb.

It has numbers stamped on it for size.

A bigger number means more fuel flow... or "richer".

A smaller number means less fuel flow... or "leaner".

There are also usually 2 external adjustments on the carb...they are the idle mixture and idle speed screws.

Idle speed usually opens the slide or butterfly for a little more airflow.

Idle mixture controls the air to fuel ratio (at idle).

They only affect idle ... they don't affect how fast your ped goes or how it runs while going fast.

So you can just play with them till you like the idle... fast enough not to stall... slow enough not to engage the transmission.

Idle mixture screws are usually supposed to be between 1 and 2 turns out from all the way in.

Some carbs with a slide have a needle in the middle of the slide with adjustment slots on the needle for raising or lowering the needle.

Raising the needle makes the midrange richer.

Lowering the needle makes the midrange leaner.

JETTING and WEATHER and AIR FILTERS and FOUR STROKING

Colder weather makes an engine run leaner with the same jets in it.

Warmer weather makes an engine run richer with the same jets in it.

Running with no air filter makes your engine run leaner.

Too much oil (or dirt) on your air filter makes it run richer.

"Four stroking" means your air to fuel ratio is too rich.

Four stroking is this >>.. when you near top speed the engine goes from a smooth high pitched ziiiiiiiiinnnggggg tone... to a lower pitch rougher tone... and the engine acts like it is choking, like it would like to go faster... and sometimes it WILL go faster if you close the throttle a little bit.

IF your engine is doing this... and the air filter is clean... remove the filter and test ride it again... if it goes faster and "four-strokes" less.. then you need to lean it out with a smaller main jet.

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GENERAL MOPED INFO

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GAS and OIL and TWO STROKES

Most mopeds have 2 stroke engines.... 2 strokes consume oil for lubrication.

Newer mopeds might have an auto-lube oil pump.. so that you don't have to pre-mix the gas and oil... For older mopeds you will need to "pre-mix" the oil with the gas.

How to tell ??... If your ped has a gas tank AND an oil tank... it has an autolube oil pump.

If it only has a gas tank.. you have to premix.

OIL

With modern 2-stroke oils you should probably pre-mix between 3 oz.(43 to 1) or 4 oz.(32 to 1) of oil per gallon of gas.

Make sure you buy 2-stroke oil.

Some people say synthetic works better... But I have found regular 2 stroke oil to be just as good as the much more expensive synthetic oil..

GAS

Racing engines are high performance and need high octane or the engine will damage itself.

But mopeds are low performance engines designed to run on the lowest octane of gas you can buy ( 87 oct.).... and higher octane will not make it run better or faster or make more power.

But higher octane will not hurt your engine either.

And.. you don't need to use leaded gas!... some old mopeds have that warning on their gas tanks... ignore it.. that was to prevent people from using "white gas" (like Colemen fuel)... Two strokes have NEVER needed leaded gas.

GAS ADDITIVES

Unless you have modified your engine for higher compression, you don't need these additives >>>

octane booster

lead additives

racing gas

They are a waste of time and money.

BUT!... I do put a little gas treatment in the gas every once in a while.. because moped carb jets are so tiny that they get clogged easily...the gas treatment helps dissolve stuff in the gas that will clog these jets.

It also soaks up any water that might have gotten into the fuel system (like "dry" gas).

I use one capfull of gas treatment per moped tankful (but you won't hurt it if you miss a tank now and then).

You buy the gas treatment at a gas station or Auto parts store.

FUEL FILTER

Since mopeds have such small carburetors.. they get clogged easily, and you should get an inline fuel filter and install it in the fuel line going to the carburetor...

The filter has an ARROW molded into it...that is the direction the gas is suposed to flow.

You can buy a fuel filter from a motorcycle shop... or lawn mower shop.

SPARK PLUGS

You can find out the correct spark plug for your engine by going to a motorcycle shop or auto parts store and looking up your model in the spark plug book.

They will have a "cross-reference" for the correct plug for your bike from the different manufacturers.

SPARK PLUG FOULING

Spark plugs in 2 strokes get "fouled" easily.

This is mostly because of the oil that the engine burns.

Fouled means the spark won't jump the gap.

It won't jump the gap because there is a film of baked on gas and oil on the insulator (the white ceramic part inside the plug) that allows the electrical energy to "bleed" off and run to ground instead of jumping the gap.

The spark plug might still look good.. Yet the spark still won't jump the gap.

That is why.. if your engine quit running it is smart to buy a new plug and check for spark to see if that is why.

If the new plug still doesn't spark.. then you are SURE there is a problem somewhere else.

Emergency spark plug fixes >>

You can scrape the film off all the way around the insulator with a sharp knife.

Then wire brush it.

Spraying it with brake cleaner will help.

Burning it with a propane torch will also help too.

These "fixes" will usually let an old plug live a while longer.

BATTERY

Some mopeds have batteries.

Some don't have batteries.

All mopeds with electric starters have batteries.

If your ped (or scooter) does NOT have an electric start... You DO NOT have to have a good battery for it to run... But you should leave the dead battery in.

On peds with kick or pedal start, they will run just fine on a dead battery... The purpose of a battery on peds with kick or pedal start is only for lights... the battery keeps the lights burning bright when the engine is at low RPM... and it acts as a voltage regulator to keep from blowing the headlight and tailight bulbs at high RPM.

So if your kick or pedal start ped or scooter has a dead battery... LEAVE IT IN to protect your light bulbs (it will still protect them even if it is dead).. but you can still start and ride it if you don't want to spend the money on a new battery.

With a dead battery your lights will get dim when you let the engine idle down.

But it won't hurt anything... (except people won't be able to see you as well when you are stopped)

PARTS FALLING OFF

Mopeds are single cylinder engines... which means they vibrate a lot... they also have crude suspensions... which means a lot of road vibes shake everything.

So bolts can loosen up and fall out and you will actually lose parts on the road.

To stop that... put "blue Loctite" (from the Auto parts store) on ALL the bolts and nuts and screws when you are working on your moped... don't use red loctite.. (it sticks tooo well)

Losing a $35 piece of plastic because a 5 cent screw fell out... SUCKS !

.............. Fred ........... Apr 26, 01..............

Re: How to Fix Your Moped

Rob Hoehn /

Fred,

I converted you document to HTML with links within the document. Maybe this could be something that could be added to this site? Let me know what you think.

http://www.uvm.edu/~rhoehn/Moped/HowToFixYourMoped.htm

Rob

Re: How to Fix Your Moped

Hi,Fred! I really appreciate your info. which is pretty all-encompassing.It should help a lot of us with our problems.I tryu to obtain a shop manual for each of my different mopeds.I have 7 mopeds(2 MOTOMARINA SEBRINGs,1 HERO-MAJESTIC ANKUR, 3 TOMOS' (silver bullet,golden bullet, and blue bullet),and a 1978 BATAVUS STARFLITE. I copied your info. and will keep it handy.If a lot of the others on here would apply your `common sense' troubleshooting style,there'd probably be a lot less repeat questions.THANKS AGAIN! BYE!

Plans for that guide.

Cool Rob!

After repeatedly answering the same questions here I started writing that guide about 5 months ago... With the intention that it could be put here somwhere permanently.

And I have talked to Simon a little about it.. and he was thinking the same thing.

He is apparently going to re-design this site sometime fairly soon I guess... So what he, and you, and SteelToad (he was also going to convert that to HTML... and put it on his own ped site) and I... want... would be determined then.

My only preferences are that the text not be changed...I chose my words pretty carefully.. and I would rather they remain the same... Unless somebody can convince me I was wrong somewhere

The other thing is I would like to see my name and that date at the top or bottom.

If somebody wants to add something before or after... that is fine... but I would prefer that what is added is kept separate in a noticeable way.

My first choice... if I was to choose... is that it would be included in this forum as a permanent 1st post (or last post on the first page?)... that looked like an ordinary post to be clicked upon... and all new posts would appear under it.... because the same questions get asked over and over again, and the info needs to be right there.

I go to another forum that has a "permanent post" that stays on the front page.

I think it works good.

And any of you regular users of this forum....

... feel free to open that guide and cut and paste parts of it to help answer the same ole questions that pop up all the time... it will save you from having to compose and type a decent answer.

Trust me... you will get tired of it after you answer the same question for the 5th time in 2 weeks.

So... If you want to... cut and paste a portion of it if you want ... and then add your own 2 cents if you want to.

And thanks Don of Ohio.

Re: And any of you regular users of this forum....

Rob Hoehn /

Fred,

I was going to ask if I could put your info on the HTML-ized document. I wasn't sure how much you wanted, as not to get hammered with additional e-mail questions. Shall I put your e-mail address on it? I would like to add sub headings also, I'll do that tommorrow probably.

Rob

How to Fix Your Moped

Rob... Why didn't you put your reply under my reply to you? (4 posts above or so)

First.. understand that I know squat about computer and information tech.

..and ..No... do NOT put my email address on there...

But how could you?

You don't have it...

(I don't think you do?)

But I would like my name and date on it... As I said.

And.. sub headings??

Inside my text??.... NO... if you please.

As I said... those words are very carefully chosen in most cases to communicate clearly (hopefully) with people who often have little understanding of what they need to do.

Rob Hoehn...Let me be very clear about this >>

I would NOT like to see somebody elses 2 cents stuck INSIDE my guide... If you want to write your own guide to help people ... then write one... ELSEWHERE.. before, or after, mine... with a noticeable separation ...and a byline.. so they know who to blame if they are not happy with what was written.

<< Tell me if that was not clear.

Re: How to Fix Your Moped

Fred... why... do you... insist on using... so many... ellipses? Don't... you find that... it is.... extremely..... distracting? It makes people.... think... you talk... like William.... Shatner. Your guide is.... good... but don't lie to yourself... about your... writing style!

My pussy detector just went off.

Haaa!... And now I know why.

What lie about my writing style do you THINK I am telling myself ??

Huh?... Pussy boy?... or should I say Chris Robertson?

(since the ISP is the same as his from last week)

If you were a man and not a pussy you would tell us your real name.

But since you want to hide like a coward you won't

... I will just say that I do not find it annoying

Isn't that obvious?.. Not to some I guess.

I feel it separates thoughts better.

...little missy... I could easily substitute comma's, or peroids,(for my string of periods) and start new sentences like my 7th grade constructive writing book told me to.

But ... I... DON"T.... FUCKING... FEEL... LIKE... IT !!

If you don't like it... that is what is known as YOUR PROBLEM. .. and I don't know what to tell you... this is not a place that requires punctuation by the book (that I noticed).. and I will happily be judged by the merits of whatever it is I write.

Not lying bout anything to anybody... and choose to punctuate MY OWN WAY.

And could not care less... what a pussy thinks.

PS

If you are not CR... then I am sure he will decline ownership of your statement.

But I'm bettin not... (look Chris!.. I just misspelled betting!... Oh MY!!)

buh bye

You're a sad little man

Chris Robertson /

You're very lonely in your shack in the woods, aren't you?

Oh please.

Reeperette /

Oh that's rich, given that we had lunch last week, and I'd lift a glass with Fred anytime, doubly so since he's put so much work into helping people outta some combination of boredom and grace.

It sounds like a bit of sour grapes jealousy to me, Chris...and frankly, I thought you were above that sort of thing.

Learn something new every day I guess.

-Ree

Think whatever you want

But I think... you can dish it out (while hiding) but can't take it.

....................................................................

.....................................................................

My writing style is ...on purpose.

By the way... flames like that are 'normal' at a few sites I go to.

I think it was a 'good one'!

And I noticed you used - - in a post above, as a separater... What's the diff?

And don't take this too seriously folks !

This stuff rolls off me like water off a ducks back.

It doesn't mean much of anything.

It doesn't bother me and it shouldn't bother Chris.. And it shouldn't bring anybody else down either.

If anybody thinks I was out of line... speak up.. I will tone it down.

But personal attacks will be met with FLAME !!!

If you don't want to fight... Don't start one.

If you do start one...

who is 'right' or 'wrong' can and will be judged by the majority.

I love a good, well written (and thought out) flame war.

Don't worry... be happy!

moped guide

i can totally understand fred wanting to keep his guide the way it is. and i do think that he misunderstood chris robertson's post. it was meant as a joke, not as an insult. the "bobo" name was meant to highlight this, not hide behind something.

but there are a couple of things to consider. one is that people should be able to make minor changes to the guide if they think it would help them. we've put together a version of fred's guide that everyone knows is based on fred's guide. it has no date, no author, no nothing. much of our stuff is made that way (i.e. very ananymous and in "underground style"). if you insist, fred, we can put your name on it or say that much of it comes from you.

but we used your guide as a skeleton along w/ many other things. i'm sure you got yours from other books and/or people. nothing wrong w/ that. that's just the nature of technical manuals. i sent you (fred) a copy of the "edited" guide.

it has nothing to do w/ necessarily changing anything or taking away credit. but there are a few things we do differently, and a few things we fix that weren't in the guide. so that's why it was changed. i haven't heard yet if fred likes this "edited" version or not. but while the spirit is the same, it has a much different audience in mind.

i thik fred's guide is great. we all love it and think it's a useful thing to have as a reference. but we also need paper copies we can carry around w/ us and hand out to people who just got their first moped. it helps them to learn how to fix things easily.

ok, i've been rambling on now. but i want to emphasize that no one (i think i can also speak for chris) mean to insult fred. we can't take all things so seriously, folks.

Re: moped guide

I think people are a little quick to say Bobo is Chris Robertson !!!!!!! Look at my ISP, it also says "sympatico.ca", Sympatico is a VERY popular internet provider here in Canada, mainly in Ontario I think. I don't know if his post "You're a sad little man" was directed at Fred, maybe it is, but Bobo could be someone completely different. But looking at the time the posts were made it sounds like Chris was responding to Fred, oh well, who knows......

Re: moped guide

Yes... you sent me the guide... but guess what.. I don't know what a 'pdf' file is... or how to open it or anything.

So I don't know what you did with it.

And since I really don't care what you print out and carry around in person.. I didn't mail you back about it.

But my request would be... if Simon or whoever would leave it intact (here on the moped Army Forum).

Couldn't additions be made after or before that text?

That, and my first name and date on the bottom is my only real request.

I don't think that is a whole lot to ask.

And I really won't be that upset if nobody wants to honor my request.. and if changes are made that are just plain wrong or bad advice... I want nothing more to do with it... and DON"T want my name on it..

And I got the info from another book?... OK.. About 20 years ago maybe... My knowledge comes from doing it in person.

I certainly didn't copy a word of it from anywhere as I wrote it.. (but I did verify ignition timing specs from many diff bikes from a spec book to make sure I wasn't wrong).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as this little flame war here.. It started when I answered Rob Hoehn's question and then he basically re-asked it again ... maybe he didn't see the first answer I gave him?... I don't know.

Then Chris Robertson uses a fake name to tell me I am lying to myself about my writing style ????

WTF is that??

(but it should be noted that I did use the name "The Moped Gawd" to reply to some of those "attack" posts in the past)

The 'tone' of written language is sometimes hard to tell.....

But the word "lying" is undeniable.

And that is no joke. If he is all anal about punctuation... that is his problem... this is the internet... Not a friggin punctuation test.

If somebody wants to alter the punctuation in that guide by changing (....)'s to ( , )'s... I don't have a problem with that... I told Simon I would do that MONTHS ago if he wanted me to... and he said it was OK as it was (at that time)... And that was long before CR popped his head in the door here.

Like I said before.. now that I completed that guide... I see less reason for me to come here... Which is why I posted that note saying that anybody who wanted to answer a question and wanted to save typing time... to just cut and paste from it if they wanted to.

Do it... save yourself time.. I won't be offended (at all!!).

I was working on a short speed tuning guide also.. but I am debating whether to post it or not so that rookies wouldn't screw up their machines... still debating that one.

Re: moped guide

Oh... moby.. So it was YOU !!... Just kidding.

All he has to do is deny it...(I bet he doesn't!)

You can tell who the reply was to by where it is.

Though I can tell quite a few people don't understand how it works.

moby.. How did your wrist pin go ??

?

Re: moby.. How did your wrist pin go ??

Well Fred, I decided I'm gonna give in and take it into the shop, I've already wrecked one rod bearing trying to get it in, and I figure peds aren't like dirtbikes that need new pistons all the time, so I'll just take the hit and be done with it and I won't have to worry about it for a long time......I hope. And I'll be damn sure that only I make any changes to the spark plug, afterall it's because of a wrong spark plug with too long of a reach that I have this problem. The mechanic said the the bottom end may have to be cleaned out because there may be little bits of metal in there from the piston. I may even get him to slide the cylinder on too while he's at it.

moped guide

Fred:

A "PDF" file is an Adobe Acrobat file. I can even send it to you as a Word document if that's better for you.

We'd be happy to put the guide up on the site as a permanent thing, but I think you'd like my little additions. They really aren't anything major. And they do come from the experience of about 5-6 really good moped mechanics in the Moped Army.

I didn't meant to imply that you plagiarized anything. Please don't get so defensive. We all pick up information from other sources and adapt it.

But keep in mind that Simon and the rest of us (for the most part) want the site to look really slick and have a singular look and feel. If you guide is put up here, it will probably have at least some revisions. To expect that not a single comma or word is altered is a bit stubborn.

No offense, but I think the internet is about free exchange of information. Look at the guide again, and see what changes were made. You'd like them. Mainly they have lists of tools, tips on riding, locking up the bike, and a few other things as well as some minor cosmetic changes. Don't be critical until you've seen it.

You did a great service. And I agree that a speed tuning guide shouldn't be up and available, necessarily. I think speeding up peds is a good idea in theory, but basic moped repair/maintenance should come first.

Re: moped guide

gimmejimmie /

I say give the man credit for his time, work, and knowledge he put into that guide. I've referred to it many times and I want to say THANKS FRED, for putting it up here. Keep working on your Speed guide, I'm looking forward to it, and keep coming back here, I enjoy your humorous posts too.

That's my two cents, spend on some gas!

Re: moped guide

I agree with fred about the newbies messing up their bikes with your speed tweaking guide. But I would still like to see it! Just remember to put a disclaimer on the top.

Re: How to Fix Your Moped

Hi! I just wanted to say that I agree with `GimmeJimmie'. Fred put a lot of thought into bringing that info. into the realm of a novice's understanding it.He did as he said `chose his words carefully' so if you want to add to it,couldn't you just attach an addendum after his advice pages? I've read this carefully,and I don't think anyone could word technical advice to all levels of mechanically inclined people any better.I know I couldn't! So,here's to all the people that will gain the ability to do some things for themselves by applying Fred's hard work! Because,it is hard for ace mechanics to talk in layman's terms.I also wanted to say that this is a great forum and between this one and Moped.org's forum I couldn't see anyone not being helped to enjoy `pedding. BYE!

Thanks Don and Gimmijimmie

And Don I am glad you noticed that I purposely and carefully worded it for the least experienced persons who might try to read it... While still covering everything that I felt was necessary..... Because I did.

I have received and read The Moped Army's official version today.. and they put some theory into it that I purposely left out... Because it will actually turn some rookies away.

And they actually left the text portion about 95% the same.

They did however mix up the order.. So that a "lookee" for info will no longer find his dilemma addressed the moment his eyes hit the page... (It was also organized quite carefully)

BUT!.. I am not unhappy with what they did... And I no longer feel any need to have my name on it.

(( Oh... Miguel... The last version I did had a minor change in the piston ring assembly description (for clarity, for rookies) if you want to check that out ))

I would hope that Steel Toad (or somebody) will leave it intact and put my first name and date at the bottom.. Just so it exists in my form somewhere... maybe a couple 'somewheres'?

Though.. if he wants to change (.....)'s to ( , )'s... like the Army did... That is alright too (as long as his "correct" punctuation isn't "incorrect")...LOL !

.................. << look... I just had my period (s)!.......Fred

(no Midol jokes dammit !!)

Re: Thanks Don and Gimmijimmie

fred:

i'm glad you'r not dissapointed w/ our guide. you did notice that we kept most of it the same. and everyone knows (both on the forum and off) that you put a great deal of work into the guide and we all appreciate it.

but editing is part of life, unfortunately. i used to work in journalism, so i know how unpopular it is to have one's work edited. but sometimes it's not so bad. i hope this was the case.

about the order. i think the order is fine, since there is a table of contents. also, the book isn't so much meant as a trouble shooting guide per se, but rather a small booklet to carry around. the theory parts have actually been very much liked by some "rookies" in our ranks who are less daunted by their machines now.

i also tried to keep up w/ all of fred's changes. but it was hard to find the changes as they crept up. so i apologize if that's the case. but i think our version is still easy enough to use. we might make it publicly available soon.

in the meantime, fred (or someone for him) should put up his guide on the web as it stands. i've seen others, btw. see for example:

<A HREF="http://people.cs.und.edu/~nordlie/moped/repair.html">http://people.cs.und.edu/~nordlie/moped/repair.html</A>;

though fred's is more complete. the more sources out there, the better, i say. and all people repair mopeds just a bit differently.

either way, fred has been a great help to our forum in the past. i hope he continues to help people out. so i hope there aren't any hard feelings or anything.

Re: moped guide

Bill Sparling /

any chance of getting a copy?

Re: moped guide

Ron Brown /

Bill,

You are in a really old thread here. Click Resources, Articles and look.

Ron

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