Noteworthy Stuff (Tomos)

Reeperette /

Mar 19, 2001 03:37PM

Having finally gotten a really close look at the A5, some noteable differences pop up right away between it and the A3

The piston is smaller, but the stroke is longer, again, it would be a hideously BAD idea to try mounting that speed kit on an A3 due to this.

The main jet is a # 51, not the # 48 that came with most A3's.

The piston does not have the tiny dip in the center that the A3 has.

The carb attachment to the cylinder is very, very different.

The new transmission sucks. (my opinion, is all)

IMOP, having a really intense knowledge of both engines, I would have to say that the A3 is probably superior, it was simpler, and from experience with both, slightly more powerful, if prone to overheating in the summer.

(which the A5 is not, like one has to worry about that in frikkin michigan...)

Sometimes technology isn't all it's cracked up to be, cause the A3 put out more 'juice' than this A5 does, so I got to thinkin, if one took the pistonarm assembly out of an A5 and put it in an A3, and THEN put the kit on it...it would probably scream....

But you'd really hafta be nutz to do that....a show of hands ? how many are that insane ?

:::raises his:::

-Ree

Re: Noteworthy Stuff (Tomos)

Ray /

Mar 19, 2001 03:43PM

Why do you say the a5 trans sucks. I'm not disagreeing with you, just wondering

is all.

I'll put that piston arm / speed kit swap on my list of things to try :-)

%$@$^%@$^*&%

Reeperette /

Mar 19, 2001 06:17PM

::this after riding around on it all day lyin to himself about why it was doggin...:::

Suck ? suck is not the word !

What I want most, at this instant...is to find the spawn of a mangy, miserable, rabid, goat-humpin yeti that designed the A5 system, and slowly, painfully, with great malice aforethought, beat him within an inch of his very life....

I've seen clogged up Jawa and Trac's run better than this damn thing.

That carb is clean enough to practically use as a mirror, the mixture is dead-on, getting great spark, and the exhaust is clear as a bell, with the baffle yanked for good measure....and yet, it still feels like my ole A3....draggin a frikkin BOAT ANCHOR !

Apparently the longer stroke means less RPMs which would be fine if it were a bigger piston, but it AIN"T, the damn piston is smaller than the A3, and that means LESS power....a lot less, apparently.

Gods above, no friggin wonder most Targa owners want the kit so bad, imma put that bastard back on even if I gotta work all damn night to do it.

Eeeyuck.

The timing on it sucks too, you could probably jump it quite a bit, cause it really does feel like they set it lagged real bad from the assembly line....and the trans really sucks balls.

It would not shift into 2nd on a 15 degree incline even after warming up, and to hell with the risk, that ATF is gettin poured out and replaced with 10w30 tomorrow mornin, IF I don't decide to strip the whole trans apart and see if I can refit A3 stuff in there.

On level ground it had real difficulty gettin into second too, and my bullet would sing right through second with if-you-blink-you-missed-it kinda style...

And furthermore....with those damnable slicks on it, you really lose speed in turns cause if you do not keep the 'ped ABSOLUTELY VERTICAL ....slippp,SLAMM....crap, total crap all the way, unless you have glass smooth asphalt, and where the hell you gonna find that it michigan ??

You Bullet owners out there ? thank your lucky stars...and for those thinkin of buyin a Tomos with an A5 ? Don't...you'll regret it.

For as much as I like Tomos, one can only lie to themselves (Oh, the carb/exhaust must be clogged..) only so long afore they hafta face the fact that their favorite manufacturer really dropped the ball - and boy did they ever.

Gimme the A3 any day of the week.

-Ree

Re: %$@$^%@$^*&%

Ron Brown /

Mar 19, 2001 06:39PM

Ree,

It's only an engine...it's only an engine....

Ron

Re: %$@$^%@$^*&%

Kenny Roberts /

Mar 19, 2001 07:49PM

.......I'll give ya $50 bucks for it.

.............. (__l__) << the rear end of the goat humpin Tomos engineer who designed that jewel of a ped.

.................. :)

C'mon ree... you'll figure it out!

Re: %$@$^%@$^*&%

Reeperette /

Mar 19, 2001 08:41PM

Yeah, only an engine I paid $300.00 more for, to find out it was less powerful than a cheaper one...live and learn, bah.

Oh believe it...that kit's already back on it, where it'll stay, for the while...I'd rather nitpick the cursed thing every time I ride it than play suicide-chicken with the dorks zoomin up my tail at 50mph in a 35mph zone.

At the very least imma keep some mods on it, bare minimum is carb, sprocket, and Bi-Turbo...I am also considering boring the 50cc cylinder to the same size as the A3 and using an A3 piston...hella easier than nitpickin the damn 70cc jobbie.

The one thing I don't have the skills or tools for is the timing, alas, and that seems to be one of the main problems, from what I can tell, and that ain't much folks, it seems to be firing really, really late....and if they come that way off the line, which I suspect to be the case - that's one reason they suck.

If I run across a wreck with a salvageable A3 on it, I will probably do some halfass conversion between the two, and let y'all know how that goes, which is more than likely just gonna be the A5 pistonarm and counterbalance bein swapped..

Being $1,000.00 into this 'ped, I ain't sellin, but for not much more than that fifty I will gladly sell you both of these Suzuki FA-50's....as parts bikes, one runs, the other don't...etc.

-Ree

Re: %$@$^%@$^*&%

mike /

Mar 19, 2001 09:26PM

my a5 engine is kinda screwed! on a steep incline it trys to switch from 1st to second but the fucking clutch slips and the engine revs like a mo fo and then the whole bike begins to shimmy and shake that a fat bitch riding a donkeys ass. i am so pissed. luckily it only does it sometimes other times it switches fine. i just did a total engine rebuild but i think i need a new 1st or 2nd gear clutches or maybe both. what u guys think?

Re: Noteworthy Stuff (Tomos)

Ataristyle /

Mar 19, 2001 10:33PM

Ree,

You seem very knowledgable about Tomos engines. I was curous if a A3 engine will fit on a bike that had a A5 engine on it(Targa LX). Do the bolt holes match up the same as the A5? Thanks.

Re: %$@$^%@$^*&%

DOUG D. /

Mar 20, 2001 03:17AM

Hey Dude, I did a little reading on the subject of the pistons, and you can put a kit on the A3 but have to machine (drill)out the top rod, it is smaller rist pin brg there. I am having a hell of a time with the advancing the timing project I started....specialized parts needed and had no luck finding (offset moon keys) I can mabe get them made, or for the Tomos, get new keyways cut...not expensive....just a crapshoot one first motor! But I do have a extra A5 motor to melt...HA! Good Luck.. Doug D.

Offset key?... Just say no!

Fred /

Mar 20, 2001 08:14AM

Better than an offset key is simply slotting the mount holes for the CDI trigger coil.

Re: Offset key?... Just say no!

doug d /

Mar 20, 2001 09:41AM

Hi Fred, You may be correct...What type of key does the tomos use? don`t you have a air gap adjustment to maintain? Wonder what slotting will do to that? Doug D

Re: Offset key?... Just say no.

Fred /

Mar 20, 2001 10:18AM

Slotting in a radial direction to move the trigger coil either cloclwise or CCW .

If the flywheel spins CCW...(most do)... then you slot the screws to move the pickup coil a little in the clockwise direction... The timing is now more advanced.

The "airgap" doesn't change.

Re: Offset key?... Just say no.

doug d /

Mar 20, 2001 01:12PM

Fred, SOUNDS LIKE IT IS WORTH A TRY!

Re: Offset key?... Just say no.

SteelToad / Ray /

Mar 20, 2001 01:36PM

Pardon my lack of intelligence on the issue but...

You guys keep mentioning moon keys, and slotted screws to adjust the

timing. Can somebody give a newbie level explanation of what you are

referring to. I'm used to just loosening a bolt and turning the distributor:-)

It would be really great if I could advance my timing without too much

effort.

slotted holes

Fred /

Mar 20, 2001 07:40PM

I said slotted holes in one post.... and slotted screws in the other.

What I meant was .... elongate the round holes that the trigger coil is mounted with (like with a rat tail file)... so you can move the trigger coil a bit in the direction you like and then tighten the screws back down.

Keep in mind that I am not convinced that this an improvement.

But I have also not messed with one of those.... So who knows?

Re: slotted holes

Doug D /

Mar 20, 2001 09:20PM

Hey Fred, If we never try we won`t know! I do know by experence about the key deal from working on race cars...and was quite successful at it, figured it should work on the peds....HA! Columbus took a chance....

Re: slotted holes

SteelToad /

Mar 20, 2001 09:28PM

Columbus died pennyless too :-)

Re: Offset key?... Just say no.

Doug D /

Mar 20, 2001 09:34PM

HI Mr. Toad, small engines,well lots of them have a fixed timing--no adjustmet, and set to run below its potential because of MPH regulations. Most motors have a moon key,like your lawnmower that holds the crankshaft and flywheel in a fixed position...if you have a offset key or have another slot cut in flywheel then you have changed the timing. Thats the basics. Its more to it to get it percist...Doug D PS: I`m working on that now, not just talking about it.

Re: slotted holes

Doug /

Mar 20, 2001 09:41PM

Good Point...:-) If I was into peds for the money I would quit long ago--ha..ha! I bought a honda twist grip,cables, whole deal and was going to use, but didnt....sold on here lot less than I paid... Its a hobbie for me, but I know some of you guys depend on the bikes for transportation....Doug

Re: Offset key?... Just say no.

SteelToad /

Mar 20, 2001 11:47PM

The lawnmower analogy makes sense I think I remember seeing that before.

Thanx, and "please" let me know if you find some way to change it.

Re: %$@$^%@$^*&%

Reeperette /

Mar 21, 2001 02:39AM

>>my a5 engine is kinda screwed! on a steep incline it trys to switch from 1st to second but the fucking clutch slips and the engine revs like a mo fo and then the whole bike begins to shimmy and shake that a fat bitch riding a donkeys ass. i am so pissed. luckily it only does it sometimes other times it switches fine. i just did a total engine rebuild but i think i need a new 1st or 2nd gear clutches or maybe both. what u guys think?<<

That is exactly what mine does, in better shape that it probably came off the assembly line in - I can effectively presume than the A5 is just underpowered, and does put out the power-to-weight the A3 does, I wish we could put em side by side on a dyno or somethin and test em, cause I do suspect that is the case.

Don't wanna see ya shell out the $$$ for it only to find out that's just cause the engine is a piece of crap.

-Ree

Re: Noteworthy Stuff (Tomos)

Reeperette /

Mar 21, 2001 02:41AM

I believe they do, and if not..it surely isn't off by that much, you should be able to swap engines quite easily....it's the electricals that's the only pain in the arse with Tomos, I usually do a straight three wire rig on any conversion 'ped I've done in the past...Hot lead, Ignition, Ground-to-chassis, it's simpler that way.

-Ree

Re: %$@$^%@$^*&%

SteelToad /

Mar 21, 2001 08:37AM

I can just picture the technicians face whey you say you want to dyno your

mopeds :-)

Re: %$@$^%@$^*&%

Ron Brown /

Mar 21, 2001 11:04AM

No problem,

They put squirrels in the drum to get it turning.

Ron

Re: Offset key?... Just say no.

Lane /

Mar 21, 2001 01:38PM

The tech manual that came with my bike says the timing is preset at 1,5 mm. Now, two things puzzle me...first is that is a comma between the 1 and 5, not a decimal point. Is this a set of tolerances meaning the timing on any particular engine could be set between 1 and 5 mm, or does the little bugger actually advance?

I'm trying to think of how street bikes work (before computer chips and all that shit). Surely they had advancing timing. I figure it's impossible to use a light to check my tomos cuz of the oil pump being mounted to the flyweel cover. Aha!! Maybe if you mixed the oil in thegas tank yourself....hmmm. Something to think about anyways.

The second thing that bugs me is the use of mm as the unit. I did a lot of tech shit in college with metrics, but we used radians for degrees, not mm....mm is a distance...

Dunno if I helped or hurt the conquest,

Lane

Re: Offset key?... Just say no.

Lane /

Mar 21, 2001 01:41PM

If ya decide to try to slot the holes in the CDI, you'd probly have to use a dremel tool cuz the metal is most likely to be hardened and impossible to file. I know the stuff in lawnmower engines is pretty tuff (learned that from hitting them extremely hard with large hammers when frustrated). Boys will be boys....

Swarm and smother, then destroy!

Lane

Re: Offset key?... Just say no.

Ron Brown /

Mar 21, 2001 01:54PM

Lane,

My Motobecane fires at 2 mm before TDC, so yours is most likely 1.5mm.

This is a measure of piston travel before tdc and is measured through the spark plug hole.

Ron

Re: Offset key?... Just say no.

Lane /

Mar 21, 2001 01:58PM

Ah, I see... Thanks Ron

Nyet hardened.

Fred /

Mar 21, 2001 02:18PM

.You are only slotting holes in a mounting bracket which doesn't even move... so there is no reason for it to be hardened.

It will usually be a sheet metal stamping... soft... a rat tail file will tear it up.

Again... I have no direct experience with a Tomos ignition.

So I am generalizing.

And some bikes come with the mounting plate slotted from the factory

Nyet hardened.

Fred /

Mar 21, 2001 02:18PM

.You are only slotting holes in a mounting bracket which doesn't even move... so there is no reason for it to be hardened.

It will usually be a sheet metal stamping... soft... a rat tail file will tear it up.

Again... I have no direct experience with a Tomos ignition.

So I am generalizing.

And some bikes come with the mounting plate slotted from the factory

MOPED ARMY

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