Engine bog and Front Brakes

Brandon E /

I just bought a 1977 (?) Puch Newport and I'm having a few problems.

1. The engine bogs and stalls at full throttle under load, like it's running rich. The only adjustment i can find on the carburetor is the Idle mixture screw. Is there and adjustment I can make inside the carburetor or is it just too cold to run it? (It's about 20 degrees outside)

2. The front brakes have a tendency to drag after engaging them and letting off. Then when you spin the wheel backwards and hit the brakes, it spins freely until the next time you use the brakes. When the front wheel is in the air and not spinning and you quickly hit the brakes and let go, the wheel spins backwards a little bit. Is there something that needs to be greased or adjusted?

Otherwise, the Puch is great. I got it home and it started on the first turn of the pedals. If anyone can help that would be great!

Re: Engine bog and Front Brakes

Two things brandon puch bing carbs dont have a mixture screw trust me i've looked My PUch had the exact same problem it turn out that the airfilter was shot after i removed and put a screen over the intake it flies at 40 if thats not it take the carbuerator apart clean the bowl and look at the jet if its clogged use a whire to clean it if it doesnt work you need a new jet . For your brakes wd 40 the cable and brakes alot will engaging break if that doesnt work maybe you have mud in the drum take it apart rinse it out and re esemble it

Thats all i know if it still bogs down yopu can use a 50:1 mix or higher to help that

Fox

Re: Engine bog and Front Brakes

I would think a simple solution would be check and compare the size of your jet in your carb with someone else's (the soemone else also being a puch) or just try a lower jet size. I would stick with fox on the brakes never really delt with front brakes i took mine off.

Re: Engine bog and Front Brakes

Brandon E. /

Thanks a lot, I'll try removing the air filter. The screw i was turning was probably idle speed because that's what it changed. As for the front brakes, I think i found the problem. The wheel is on backwards because the lever on the drum pulls back where the back brake drum lever pulls forward. I'll just turn the wheel around. But I'll take a look at the air cleaner. Thanks again!

Hold on

Don't go assuming that the jetting is too rich ... unless you are real familiar with 2 strokes.

It could be too lean because the carb is clogged.

What does the spark plug look like when it is all warmed up and this bogging is taking place?

If you just bought this bike... then it is a good idea to do a slow and thorough carb cleaning like it says in my "Troubleshooting and Tune-Up" post below.

THEN see what it runs like.

Re: Hold on

Brandon E /

The spark plug is black and oily. I know a little about two strokes so i know that a dark plug is rich and a white plug is lean. I'll try cleaning the carb tomorrow. You're right, I should have cleaned the carb first. I should probably drain the tank too, huh.

Re: Engine bog and Front Brakes

Ron Brown /

Brandon,

A single leading shoe brake, which most ped use, works the same in both directions.

Take the wheel off and clean and lube everything. Use a very light smear of grease and stay away from the shoe friction surface and drum.

Ron

Re: Engine bog and Front Brakes

if the plug is oilily then u are way way too rich try a small jet and if that dosent work u need to mix tyhe oil a little less

Another Question

Brandon E /

I cleaned the carb today and sprayed brake cleaner inside the front drum. Now I've got another problem: the inside of the gas tank is rusty. Can I get that coated or sandblasted or am i just gonna have to clean the carb a lot more often? Thanks, everyone, for all your help.

Re: Engine bog and Front Brakes

Ron Brown /

Unless your needle valve is leaking!

Clean the carb first.

Ron

Re: Another Question

You should be able to use a product called "Kreem" which I think coats the tank. I've never used but I've heard it works great.

Re: Another Question

Yeah.. It works great and you can buy it from motorcycle shops

But it's $35 to $40

For a quick solution just put an inline fuel filter between the gastank and carb...$2

If it fills up within 6 months then yes, you had better do the Kreem

Re: Another Question

gimmejimmie /

I've used that "Kreme" before and it does work, it's a white goo that coats and seals the inside of the tank and gas won't bother it. If your tank has a mild case of rust, you can get by with a cleaning and inline filter.

I cleaned mine by taking the tank off the bike and putting a couple handfulls of pea size gravel in. Then I shook the hell out of it ( like a giant Morraca ). That loosened up the surface rust, and then rinse it out good with a garden hose, blow dry (I used a hair dryer) and reinstall, I never had a problem.

If you store a machine (that has a gastank) for a long period of time, top it off with fuel so the rust won't form.

Re: Another Question

Brandon E /

I'll try the Kreem. It's a great looking machine and I don't mind spending 40 bucks to coat the tank. I'm just eager to start cruising! Thanks again, everyone.

Re: Another Question

Ron Brown /

Brandon,

I have cleaned several gas tanks using muriatic acid solution, available cheap at any hardware store. I have since found out that Phosphoric acid is better because it does not promote rust and actually leaves a protective surface by some chemical reaction. Apparently, it is axailable at farm stores because it is used to clean stainless steel milking equipment.

If you are using the bike regularly, you do not realy need the kreem coating, fuel seems to prtect the tank, especially if you are using gas/oil mix.

You may want to surf some of the vintage motor cycle sites, they talk about this a lot.

Ron

what's happened thus far

Brandon E. /

Well, I cleaned the carb, cleaned the front brakes, and I have to wait till Monday to get some Kreem for the tank. But I was just too eager to ride, so I put a little gas in it, tried to start it for 10 minutes, cleaned the carb again, tried to start it again for another few minutes, pulled the carb apart again, cleaned it, adjusted the needle and seat (the fuel bowl wouldn't fill) and then, FINALLY! It fired right up! Here we go! I took it up the street. The top end and acceleration were all there! The front brakes didn't seize up. all i did with the brakes is spray some brake cleaner into the front drum. I did a few 360s on the ice and put it back so I wouldn't get anymore of that rusty gasoline mud in the carb. Sometime this week I'm gonna coat the inside of the gas tank. But what fun! I might have to readjust the float needle again because the bowl is filling up and leaking out of the top rim of the bowl. It's probably gonna need a new bowl gasket, too.

Re: what's happened thus far

gimmejimmie /

Great!

Let her rip! (with a fuel filter)

party dude!

Re: what's happened thus far

Ron Brown /

Brandon,

Good work, don't even try to fix the carb until the crud quits flowing.

btw, phosphoric acid is the stuff to use, I found the thread again in the VJMC.COM archives. If it were me and the tank is not perforated from rust, I would acid clean it and not use Kreem, especially if you are using pre-mix.

Ron

Re: what's happened thus far

Brandon E /

Thanks, Ron. I'll try the Phosphoric Acid.

Pictures of my machines

Brandon E /

I've got pictures of my Puch and my AMF at www.geocities.com/dumpdweller/moped. Check it out sometime.

Re: Pictures of my machines

Ron Brown /

Brandon,

Would that be www.geocities.com/dumpdweller/moped.html?

If so, cool peds.

Ron

Adventures of a Consumer

Brandon E /

Yeah, that's the right address, Ron.

Well, so far my luck in with the rusty gas tank has been all bad. First, the two biggest farm stores in town don't sell Phospheric acid because it's "too strong." Then the local auto parts store didn't have anything for rusty gas tanks and they didn't have the right size fuel line AND the only fuel filters they had were bigger than the carb. I'll try my luck with some motorcycle shops tomorrow, because it's after 5:00 and every place is closed. Anyone know where I could buy phospheric acid or Kreem online?

Oh, and I also tried flushing the loose stuff out by putting a little gas in the tank and shaking the bike around. The tank is part of the frame so it can't be removed and shaken. At least now the gas that comes out isn't brown and chunky!

Re: Adventures of a Consumer

Reeperette /

>>they didn't have the right size fuel line<<

Well, admittedly there's a preference for clear fuel line - but if you do not care, windshield wiper tubing does an excellent job in compatible sizes.

In most cases it is also more durable than standard OEM fuel line tubing for mopeds as well.

-Ree

Re: Adventures of a Consumer

Ron Brown /

Brandon,

As they say, this changes everything.

In order to use Kreem, you have to "slosh" it around to spread out the coating on the inside of the tank. I suspect that you may find this difficult to do unless you strip the ped to the frame. It probably would be light enough to toss around then.

I would stick with the acid only approach. I do not know where you live, but most buisinesses using large stainless steel vessels also use Phosphoric acid. Dairy farmers, dairy products, brewerys etc. Posibly you could call one, or just stop by, it is cheap and they may just give you some.

Whem you use it, you are going to have to figure out how to get it back out of the tank safely. Typically, with a removable tank, you can just duct tape over the holes and dump it by removing the tape. You must remove the petcock and removing the gas cap is a good idea as it has a vent hole which can leak acid.

If the petcock scews into a threaded hole in the tank, maybe you can find a brass nipple that will fit the thread and allow you to drain the acid safely. If you have no choice but tape, remember that a running hose is your best defense against disaster.

For all of the following, keep a garden hose available and turned on. Wear old clothes, there is a good chance they will become religious, as in holey. Work outside, away from anything which could get splashed. When rinsing, use a lot of low pressure water, high pressure will send acid to places where it may do damage before you find it.

When you get the acid, mix some up in a plastic container and test it with a piece of rusty steel. You want it to remove the rust in about ten minutes but you are not looking for a violent reaction.

Remove the petcock and plug the hole with something appropriate, good duct tape usually works. Remove the gas cap if possible, if not, cover the hole with saran wrap before closing the cap to keep the vents from filling with acid.

Pour enough diluted acid in the tank to almost fill it. Seal the filler with tape or the cap/saran wrap and slosh the acid so that it is cleaning the top side of the tank. Just rocking the bike will do this. Keep an eye open for leaks and rinse off any acid you see immediately with a slow hose. Keep sloshing every minute or so until your time is up as determined by the test above, then slosh and wait five minutes more.

I am not sure how you are going to drain the tank but if you have not figured out a drain tube, lean the ped so most of the acid will fall straight to the ground and keep a sready flow of water on the hose to rinse any parts of the ped which get splashed.

Btw, letting the acid run into the ground in your yard is not an ecological disaster. Many plants prefer acidic soil. Don't let your pets get near it, dilute it a lot and don't dump it all in one place, especially not at the base of a tree.

Check the inside of the tank to make sure you do not need another application.

Using a rinse and slosh tecnique, get rid of all the acid in the gas tank then dry off the ped. If you have an air line, blow out the tank. If not, dry it as well as you can with rags, paper towels, hair dryer etc. Then replace the petcock and pour a bottle of "dry gas" into the tak and close the lid. Slosh this around for a few minutes to mix with any remaining water trapped in the tank seams, then drain it out.

Add gas and ped away.

Most hardware stores sell a good selection of plastic tubing and have an explaination of what liquids they are resistant to.

Ron

Ron

Sorry, Ron

Brandon E /

Well, about an hour ago I ordered some Kreem from the local cycle shop out of impatience. Sorry, Ron. I should've checked the forums first. Oh well, If it doesn't work, I'll always know what i should have done. I really should have listened to you, Ron. You seem to always know best.

Re: Sorry, Ron

Ron Brown /

Brandon,

Don't worry about it, the acid will work for you but you will most likely have to hold off on the kreem until you spend enough time weight lifting so you can rotate the ped to spread it :-)

Save the pre-rinse too, this helps the kreem to stick and should stay with it. Use dry gas as a rinse instead.

Ron

Dry Gas?

Brandon E /

What do you mean by dry gas? Do you mean unmixed gasoline or compressed air (gas being matter)?

Re: Dry Gas?

Ron Brown /

Brandon,

It's this stuff you buy at an auto parts/gas staion/grogery/drug store that you dump in your gas tank to get water out of your gas.

Dry Gas is a generu\ic name I think, but anything that costa about .99 fi\or a pint and says it removes water from your gasoline will do.

It is just alcohol which acts as avehicle to mix the water with the gas so it can burn as you drive.

Ron

Re: Dry Gas?

Brandon E /

Cool. Sounds easy enough to find! Thanks for all your help, Ron. You Rule!

Phosphoric acid

We got this stuff we use at work called lime-away. Its main ingredient is phosphoric acid. works great getting the rust and crud and stuff off of the bottom of soup thermalizers.. you should be able to find that stuff at a hardware store or wal-mart or something.

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