Help!!!! with 85 Honda Spree

DaveinNaples /

Feb 13, 2001 12:49PM

When she gets hot, like after 45 mins of pure pleasure driving, and I get stuck in a big traffic jam here in Naples...........at idle, it sort of just dies. Then when I try to start it, starter motor turns over more slowly than normal, as though straining under higher workload, and the darn thing won't start. I have to let it cool down for about 5-10 minutes and then, everything back to normal !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Any ideas? Background. Spree 1985 model, 7,500 miles, runs great, except above. New plug, battery, got gas and oil. Recently put in new rings and bearings, but had this same problem before...........I'm stumped. Thanx

Re: Help!!!! with 85 Honda Spree

Ron Brown /

Feb 13, 2001 01:06PM

Dave,

I don't know if this will help but it sounds like you are just getting too hot.

Make sure that the ignition timing is not advanced.

Make sure you are not running too lean.

I don't know how cooling works on this scooter but make sure it is operating correctly.

When you replaced the rings, were there any scuff marks on the piston?

Ron

Re: Help!!!! with 85 Honda Spree

DaveinNaples /

Feb 13, 2001 03:03PM

Thanks Ron, No there were no scuff marks on the piston, and the bore looked real good as did the head, all I changed were the rings and bearings.

The Spree as I'm sure you know is a two stroke.

On the Carb, there are 3 screws..........one near the top of the carb has a spring on it and is the idle screw. Then there's a smaller screw just beneath, that is sort of at the top of the "bowl" and then a larger screw at the bottom of the "bowl".

These two screws are the ones I can't figure out. Do you know which one, or are both used to set the leaness ?

And how can you tell you're not too lean and burning out the engine?

I'll try that first and see if it works, Thanks again

Re: Help!!!! with 85 Honda Spree

DaveinNaples /

Feb 13, 2001 03:10PM

Just an aside note: I read your reply to the fellow with the jet problem. You mentioned turning off the gas to see if you are burning too lean and then if you get a slight increase in power as the gas runs out that is normal...........I would try that but I don't have anyway of turning the fuel off while riding, there is no shut off valve. What do you suggest in that case.........thanks

Re: Help!!!! with 85 Honda Spree

Ron Brown /

Feb 13, 2001 05:54PM

Dave,

If you have reserve, wait til you are on it, then use the main position as an off position.

If you have no reserve, you would have to find the vacuum line to the petcock and pinch it off or something like that.

Maybe someone with a spree can help.

Same on the adjusting screws on the carb, You need someone with spree experience to tell you which is which but most carbs have at most, an idle speed adjustment and an idle mixture adjustment. A lot of small engines do not have the idle mixture adjustment.

When the engine quits, is there any easy way to get to the flywheel or something similar and rotate the crank by hand to see what it feels like?

Ron

Re: Help!!!! with 85 Honda Spree

DaveinNaples /

Feb 13, 2001 07:03PM

Thanks Ron,

When the engine quits I could remove the plastic cover off the flywheel. The block and head are closely cowled with plastic to duct the air around the engine for proper cooling.

It wouldn't be too easy, by the time I get all the covers etc. off, it would have cooled down and then its easy to restart.

If it is running too hot (lean), how about purposely adjusting the mixture too rich, and see if I have the same problem after 45 minutes of driving full tilt?

Let me know what you think, thanks, Dave

Re: Help!!!! with 85 Honda Spree

Ron Brown /

Feb 13, 2001 08:39PM

Dave,

As I mentioned, there is no adjustment for anything other than idle mixture, you would have to get a larger main jet.

You could have a partially plugged main jet from "varnish" build up. How clean is your carb?

Unless someone has changed things from stock, trying to solve a problem by changing stock settings only compensates for something else which is wrong. Trust Honda, they really are better than us at figuring this stuff out.

Have you checked the timing?

Ron

Re: Help!!!! with 85 Honda Spree

Victor /

Feb 13, 2001 11:31PM

I had a honda years ago (i forget what year and model) and had a similar problem. I found out the hard way that the oil injection pump was going bad. It eventually ruined the piston and cylinder. This may not be your problem but I think its worth mentioning.

Victor

Re: Help!!!! with 85 Honda Spree

Fred /

Feb 14, 2001 01:46AM

And hot is not lean... A hot engine if anything is running richer... Hotter air is less dense... So there is actually less air for the same amount of fuel.. it's richer.

The screw right above the split at the float bowl would be the idle mixture screw...(which will richen or lean out the idle mixture depending on which way you turn it) and try screwing it in or out an eighth or quarter of a turn at a time to see if it helps.

Re: Help!!!! with 85 Honda Spree

DaveinNaples /

Feb 14, 2001 09:18AM

Thanks for the clue Victor, now that begs the question......how does one get at the oil injection pump?

Can it be repaired or replaced?

What does it look like?

Have you seen one in pieces?

Thanx, Dave

Re: Help!!!! with 85 Honda Spree

DaveinNaples /

Feb 14, 2001 09:23AM

Thanks again Ron for your diligence in answering my questions. No, haven't touched the timing, because I don't know anything about it. I don't have points, (I don't think - 85 model) but rebuilding the engine, I did have the flywheel off, and studied all the coils and wires underneath.

Is that where you adjust the timing ?????

I'm really a novice mechanic, but I'm trying to learn !!!!!!!!!!

I guess what I really need is a quicky course on the principal of 2 stroke engines

Re: Help!!!! with 85 Honda Spree

daveinnaples /

Feb 14, 2001 09:41AM

Thanks for the advice Fred. I'll try that next.

Re: Help!!!! with 85 Honda Spree

Ron Brown /

Feb 14, 2001 10:53AM

Fred,

I don't really know how to respond to this post.

This is a guy who's motor gets hot after 45 mins of riding then stalls in town.

Won't start until 10 mins of cool down time have passed and cranks slowly as if engine is tight.

This, to me, is not an engine running rich.

Enlighten me please.

Ron

Re: Help!!!! with 85 Honda Spree

Fred /

Feb 14, 2001 12:42PM

I was making a general observation that in hotter temperatures an engine runs richer.

If you read this, you will see I didn't say which way to go... just to try either way to try to improve his stalling.

>>>The screw right above the split at the float bowl would be the idle mixture screw...(which will richen or lean out the idle mixture depending on which way you turn it) and try screwing it in OR out an eighth or quarter of a turn at a time to see if it helps.<<<

I think the Spree just needs it's idle speed and mixture set to raise engine speed at idle...period.

You will notice it has new rings and doesn't have any other performance problems.

The hard cranking on a hot engine is true for any gasoline engine... and could simply be more apparent because his battery may be old (only he knows his battery's age and history)

Dave... Just try to raise your idle speed ...first with the idle mixture screw (which may be enough)... then with the idle speed screw... As long as the clutch isn't engaging you should be alright.

Re: Help!!!! with 85 Honda Spree

Victor /

Feb 14, 2001 12:54PM

I can

Re: Help!!!! with 85 Honda Spree

Ron Brown /

Feb 14, 2001 02:15PM

Fred,

Thanks, that makes sense. I wondered about his battery too but had not gotten around to that question.

Obviously, just because someone says thier engine is "too hot" does not make it so.

I like your potential solution, very elegant.

Ron

Re: Help!!!! with 85 Honda Spree

DaveinNaples /

Feb 14, 2001 02:41PM

Victor, thanks for that little piece of advice. I'm going to think about what you said and maybe do the sme thing. Again, thanks for responding.

MOPED ARMY

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