MOPED ARMY

I'll say.

... hahaha ... that thing is effff'd up.

I refrained from finishing about the alcohol thing back then ... I am going to lay it on you now.

You are going eventually going to have trouble with your lower end.

Its from the water present in the alcohol... and the people here who talk about 4 strokes using alcohol have missed the point .. we are talking about 2 strokes.

Two strokes cycle the fuel intake charge throught the crankcase... ane there is .. ALWAYS .. 'puddling' of leftover fuel/oil in the crankcase after shutdown.

The water in that .. WILL cause case and bearing corrosion ...... short periods aren't going to cause problems .. but longer term sitting WILL .. you will sooner or later start to get tiny corrosion pits on crank and rod bearing surfaces.

Once those pits appear on bearing surfaces .. your crank or bearings will be scrap .. fast.

My knowledge of this comes from YEARS of racing motorcycles at racetracks all over a third of this country... the people I know that ran alcohol ALWAYS .... switched the bike over to gasoline after race day and ran it for 15-20 minutes on gas to burn all the alcohol out.

Add this to the other problems of running alcohol.

Finding it (where?)

Storing it (with air tight storage to keep the water out)

Finding oils that will mix with alcohol (most won't mix properly)

Cutting your fuel range in half (tank used to go 100 miles .. now it goes 60 miles .. and you can't just stop and 'fill-up')

I also bet you pay more per gallon than gasoline.

What are the advantages now ?

(I know what they are .. but they don't outweigh the 'cons' in my mind)

It made it run well torqey-er I felt a dramatic improvement in the low end. It really jumped off the start, pow! Ya know. Running on gas it just dragged up to speed. On booze it spun up faster and took off..

Alcohol would be alright IF they made the engine to run it,but it's designed for gasoline and 2-stroke oil with a minimum ,(up to 10%),of ethanol blended into the gas. Thanks for the info.,Fred! I always knew it was corrosive,but that explanation makes more sense. But,Chuck, if you're havin' fun,and don't mind a total rebuild every once in a while, then enjoy your toy! One thing I would wonder is how well did it start when cold? Did you have to always use ether when first starting it cold? Do you live in a pretty warm climate? don-ohio (:^)

this is from the Canadian renewable fuels website. THis is the page on small engines.

Ethanol and Small Engines

All gasoline currently available is intended for automobile use. Small engine manufacturers (including those who design motorcycles, boats, recreational equipment and lawn and power equipment), therefore, design their engines around the fuels made for automobiles. Since the mid-1980s, manufacturers have indicated that ethanol-blended fuels could be used in equipment with small engines, with certain precautions. It is very important to consult the owner's manual to review the use of ethanol blends for the particular make of your small engine.

Materials

In the past, some manufacturers of small engines expressed concern that the materials may not be compatible with ethanol. The companies have performed their own testing, and most accept the use of ethanol-blended fuels.

Lubrication

Small engine manufacturers have expressed some concerns about inadequate lubricity resulting from the use of ethanol blends. Tests conducted by Valvoline Oil Company have shown a slight increase in lubricity, and have put these concerns to rest.

Storage/Phase Separation

Because ethanol absorbs water in the fuel tank and lines, it can help to prevent the accumulation of water in the gas tank. However, if excessive water is absorbed, a phase separation could occur, resulting in a mixture of alcohol and water in the bottom of the tank. This would make it very difficult for the engine to operate and can cause corrosion. Even at 70% relative humidity, with the cap off of the fuel tank, it would take hundreds of days for the ethanol to absorb this much moisture. By taking caution that no water enters the system, ensuring that the equipment has a properly sealing tank cap, and by filling the tank before extended storage periods, the probability of excessive water in the tank can be minimized. Some manufacturers recommend draining the tank and system before storage. In environments with high humidity, this is the best method of preventing water accumulation. Some manufacturers may also recommend treating the fuel with a stabilizer to inhibit the oxidation and subsequent deterioration of the gasoline during storage.

Over-blends

While some small engine manufacturers may express concern about blends with levels of ethanol that are too high, it is important to remember that the Canadian General Standards Board regulates fuel quality and prescribes the limit of ethanol in fuel as up to 10%. All gasolines sold in Canada (ethanol blends included) must meet these regulations, and those who blend their fuels with ethanol are extremely careful not to over-blend, due to the higher cost of the ethanol component.

Enleanment

Ethanol 'enleans' the fuel by providing it with additional oxygen, and thereby raises the air/fuel ratio, which may benefit engines that have not recently been tuned, or that have dirty air filters. Some manufacturers may require an adjustment in air intake to correct the air/fuel ratio for some small engines. In some applications, such as with boats and snowmobiles, where there is extended operation at wide-open throttle (WOT), the owners manual may suggest a jet-size change to restore the intended air/fuel ratio. Snowmobiles and other equipment used in extreme cold often specify a rich air/fuel ratio, and the engines may be sensitive to enleanment.

Only a few manufacturers may make these recommendations, but it is very important to consult the owners' manual. Even if some manufacturers discourage the use of ethanol-blended fuels for their equipment, it does not mean that they are lower quality fuels. It may simply be that the particular manufacturer has not yet conducted a test program or wants more field experience with these fuels.

Well,I believe some of that but not nearly everything stated. I have seen too many rusty tanks caused by people buying gasoline with 10-15% ethanol. The claims the article makes seem slanted toward ethanol use. The statement that even leaving the gas cap off would take years to absorb an appreciable amount of moisture is preposterous. ANYONE who has taken water, put a few ounces in the bottom of a clear jar,marked the level of water,and added ethanol blended gas, has seen the propensity that the alcohol has to leave the gas and go to the water. You can see the animated action before your eyes and you can see the level of separation of water from gas rise as the alcohol quickly prefers the water and goes there to the bottom......SO,say you have humid air (look at the side of an ice-cold lemonade glass on a humid day to see how much water is available)being drawn into ethanol laced gas every time it cools down at night and every time you run the `ped.That water will stay with the fuel,degrading the mixture more and more. What they are saying,I guess,is that it won't COLLECT in a separated state at the bottom of the tank. That may be true,but the gas still has unwanted moisture in it, and is detrimental to small engines especially. That's why STIHL chain saws will VOID your warranty if you use ethanol-blended gas.At least they used to. I haven't spoken to the STIHL dealer in the last few years. They also don't mention the decline in gas mileage that accompanies ethanol blend usage. I would prefer STIHL's caution until absolutely proven otherwise. don-ohio (:^)

well to all the "nay sayers" this ain't over yet... Admittedly this is just the start. It runs on booze.... next summer it will run on bozze better... ha

Yeah, but what about when you get pulled over? Both you AND your bike smell like booze! That sucks!

david

In VA a moped is "not" a motor vehicle.. unless you are drunk...

Any time else.. it is not a bicycle, it is not a motorcycle. It is only a motor vehicle when the rider is drunk... go figger