PA50 Oil/Gas Mix What are you running?

Doc Holliday /

Hey PA50 people,

Curious as to what you are running for a mixture. I know that Honda specifies 25:1 but my ped seems to have a hellish amount of unburned oil coming out the exhaust. Plug looks good, tan color.

Doc

32 to 1

And I will continue to run 32 to 1

My break-in of a new piston and bore is done ... but I will be sticking with the 32 to 1.

I am making more HP and heat than stock.

Thats why I am going to more oil than what I used to run in it

(43 to 1).

I also run fairly 'cheap' oil ... (Citgo brand 2 stroke oil that meets BIA TCW specs) .. if I was running the premium brands of mineral oil .. I might still run 43 to 1 ... or if I was running synthetic .. I would probably run it at 50 to 1.

Oil dripping out your pipe isn't a problem .. one thing you know for sure .. you are getting plenty of lube.. (a good thing).

BUT .. the oils available back when they made these bikes (with a 25 to 1 recomendation) .. aren't as good as the newer two stroke oils.

You could run 32 to 1 with confidence.

If your PA is stock and slow .. you could run 43 to 1.

Thanks Fred

Doc Holliday /

I think I will try that in my next tank.

Doc

Re: PA50 Oil/Gas Mix What are you running?

J.Frank T. /

I use 45:1 and get up to 21 m.p.h. in my 1979

if you use to much gas you'll get a burnt spark plug and if you run it too rich you will F%$# up the plug by congesting it w/ carbon

If I were you I'd break it in @ 30:1 and move up or down to your specifications

P.S. In case you're retarted the following info will help

more gas to oil= faster

more oil to gas= slower

Who's "retarted" ?

YOU .. thats who .. "J Frank T"

How do you kids go from not knowing where your butt is one minute .. then being experts the next minute ?

Dyno tests conducted by professional racing teams show they get the most HP with LOTS of oil ... like 25 to 1 .. or 20 to 1 .. or even 16 to 1.

Come back when you get a clue.

Oh yeah .. its spelled retarDed

Re: Who's "retarted" ?

Doc Holliday /

Bitch Slap!!!! GO FRED!

spelin n stuf

I think proper spelling has become optional. It's amazing the words that aren't spelled correctly on here. Hard words like:

moped

you

people

September

trophies

bikes

pedals

this

All that in one message. I don't like being a spelling nazi, well maybe I do, but I have a hard time taking someone who can't spell moped seriously.

https://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/discuss/read.php?f=1&i=59140&t=59140

Re: spelin n stuf

I thought that adding a spell check feature would help out. Oh well.

simon

Re: Who's "retarted" ?

That might be technically true Fred, but my experience with my moped is similar to J.Frank T. - the more oil I put in, the more it bogs down, fouls my plugs, and runs slower.

I think that most people consider this to be true for older mopeds - regardless of what the race team tests show.

simon

Re: Who's "retarted" ?

Yeah and "most people" are wrong about a lot of things.

Especially technical things .. (you see it here all the time)

Fouling plugs ?

Yes ... because street ridden motors don't get run hard enough to burn it all of.

The rest ?... run slower and 'bog down"... No .. sorry .. I ain't buying it.

I would call that a mis-perception.

He's right, actually.

The mix I am running right now, due to the system being all clogged up, is way too rich and fouls the hell out of plugs at low speed - BUT, put 14 miles behind you and get that sucker nice and hot, and THEN she runs wickedly well.

I back Fred on this, cause I run motors pretty hard, and have similar experiences.

-T

Enough already Fred

You know Fred, you may have more technical know-how than the rest of us on here, but you are last in line when it comes to couth.

I appreciate the advice that you provide and while I respect your knowledge, I could do without your attitude.

Give it a rest. If answering the questions on this board is such a hassle for you, stop doing it. Don't beat up a poster just because they have a differing opinion than the "almighty Fred."

thanks,

(one of the DUMB ASSES that you love so much.)

Re: Who's "retarted" ?

that might be true for the fa-50 or other japanese bikes. but italian bikes specifically call for between 43:1 to 50:1 oil-to-gas ratios. the manuals and even my friend in italy (who knows TONS about mopeds) tell me that more oil will bog down and that less oil will make my bike go faster (but risks seizing the piston).

i know i was a newbie three years ago and knew nothing, but that was three years ago and i've learned a lot since then (thanks to so many people, including fred).

i know that some people here are new and ask "newbie" questions that might sound stupid. but the only stupid question is one not asked. we should try to be more patient with them and encourage them.

Re: Enough already Fred

gimmyjimmy /

aw man, that's just fred being fred, you newbies don't know him well enough. He hates misinformation (who doesnt) and he'll let you know about.

Fred knows his shit, tough bedside manner, I like that.

He also likes hondas, ice cream, and making these..........(dots).......... .

that's all I know about him...............gawd.

Re: Pink mary-kay moped

I heard that's one of Fred's rides. no kidding.

Re: Runs best before it seizes....

Fred and Trike:

If you're right, why does a moped run so well just before it seizes?

That tells me that less oil= more power and better running.

If more oil increased power, it should be running best right before the plug fouls.....

?!?!?

You know I'm no mechanic--- playing the devils advocate. I think it's like what Trike said, and has to do with the running temp.

Everyone knows that a moped/2-stroke runs the best right before the rings melt into the piston.

Just want to understand---both arguments seem to make sense to me..

Runs best right before it seizes....

Why do they 'run best right before they seize' ??

We have some mixed up concepts here.

The phrase .. "they run best right brefore they seize" .. has to do with leanness .. (fuel to air) .. it has nothing to do with the oil.

And if they 'run best right before they seize' because of leanness .. thats LESS gas .. not more .. right Wayne ?

Let me explain THAT phenomenon this way... these old air cooled two strokes would LIKE to run on an air to fuel ratio that is too lean for their own health and well-being.

ie .. they make their best HP at leaner fuel to air ratios .. TOO lean .. lean enough to let the heat rise and start 'meltdown'.

.. they are partly 'gas-cooled' .. the more gas evaporating in the intake tract and combustion chamber .. the more heat absorbed.

(this is another reason why alcohol can make more HP too .. the evap cooling effect of alcohol is substantial)

.. so .. in these old air cooled motors we have to balance jetting with heat .. we can't go for max power if we want engines to last ..

""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

Let me say this .. this 'less oil makes more power' is a common mis-perception that goes waaay back .. (i've heard this argument for over 25 years ago .. and it gets repeated by even people who should know better .. the more people who repeat it .. the more who accept it as true) .. and it makes a certain amount of sense .. after all gas is what makes power right?.. so more gas equals more power right ?

I am not going to go into all the theories .. (this takes up whole chapters in books) ..

Suffice it to say that manufacturers have PROVEN in high performance racing engines .. that max HP is achieved with lots of oil (as I stated in that post above).

This has been proven over and over again .. by measuring technology .. dynamometers and racetracks tests .. by proffessional, educated engineers and technicians.

Its not 'opinion'.

They make more HP because of a REDUCTION IN INTERNAL FRICTION.

Now .. this thread has made me wonder if

'not so high performance' motors don't follow that theory.

hmmmmmmmm ....

I will say that motors being run slowly 'putting around' might well get partly fouled plugs that make the engine run 'less good' ... maybe thats why people think they run worse with more oil ? .. too much putt putting ?

Me ? ... I have NEVER fouled a plug in a moped .. ever .. I flog the doo-doo out of my motors most of the time .. maybe too much .. so the putt-putting and choked plugs isn't something that happens to me.

.. and manufacturers recomendations can be based partly on fouling .. notice I said 43 to 1 was quite acceptable under many conditions .. even 50 to 1 with synth .. go back and read it.

I am makinfg more power and running faster now .. and I want more protection .. and its KNOWN (by the peolpe who KNOW) .. that more oil doesn't cut HP.

getting the jetting right .. is the main thing that goes hand-in-hand with all this stuff

Not so.

Fred has a fit about some things for the same reasons I do, and I am LESS nice about it.

Misinformation, or flatly wrong information, taken as fact by a rookie can ruin a bike and make us all look bad, casting mopeds and the forum folks in a bad light.

So when Fred sees something like that, he's gonna be out to crush it, utterly, so that no newbie gets the idea that it might work and toasts a 'ped over it.

I think it's hilarious, however, that he catches all the flak for his attitude when mine is five times worse.

-T

You go,Fred !

HaHaHaHaaaaa! Fred! I called you `crusty ol' Fred' and you didn't deny it.Ha! `T' is right about Fred...............he HATES bad info.,period! But he loves 2-strokes,and IF you can't read his guide(How to Fix Your Moped) and see that, well, go to a `snail forum' is all I can say. He's probably about the age of my big brother, who is just as `crusty' and `blunt' when he sees someone being misled, so I'm used to `ol crusty Fred! Ha!...... Fred! This is a different generation we are talkin' to. SO LAY IT ON `EM! LOL!! don-ohio (:^)

Love That Smell

John Lieberman /

I've ridden behind Fred's bike and I can tell you that it smells like it's burning about a quart of oil for each gallon of gasoline. But that machine runs like a scalded cat, so the oil obviously isn't doing any harm there.

Or maybe that burning smell is from the tires spinning when the light turns green....

Re: Reverse Ratio?!?

JD--- That's funny as heck.

I got to thinking (first time for everything...)

I filled my QT-50 GAS tank with Pure Amsoil....and I filled my oil injector with gasoline.

Well, let me tell you--- this bike is doing wheelies, spin shows and hitting 60 or 70 mph.

It IS running a little rich.... and I've gone through 25 plugs in 2 days... but it runs like a dream!!

(this IS a joke! Newbies--DO not do this-- it is a dumb idea--- riding a moped at 70mph is unsafe!)

-Wayne

Re: Reverse Ratio?!?

JD--- That's funny as heck.

I got to thinking (first time for everything...)

I filled my QT-50 GAS tank with Pure Amsoil....and I filled my oil injector with gasoline.

Well, let me tell you--- this bike is doing wheelies, spin shows and hitting 60 or 70 mph.

It IS running a little rich.... and I've gone through 25 plugs in 2 days... but it runs like a dream!!

(this IS a joke! Newbies--DO not do this-- it is a dumb idea--- riding a moped at 70mph is unsafe!)

-Wayne

Better yet...

Wayne,

Actually I'm thinking of running my Italian "spaghetti" bike on pure virgin olive oil and vinegar. If I add a little garlic powder (minced would get caught in the fuel filter) I imagine my 'ped would smell like an Italian restaurant...on fire.

"Sentite l'odore di qualcosa che si brucia?"

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