Crap on eBay

I've noticed for the past couple of months there has been a lot of crap put up on eBay under the search "moped". Lots of people trying to sell rip-off go-peds, plans how to get a $20 moped, cheap Chinese made Vespa rip-offs and so on. Has anyone actually bought one of these plans/scooters? The days of getting only 30 items a search are now gone I guess..

Re: Crap on eBay


I bought a chinese go-ped copy, it runs like crap. Died after 2 weeks.

I also bought a chinese moped, the thing NEVER STARTED WHEN I GOT IT. I had to send it to a mechanic. He really had to force the damn stuborn engine before it started running. The assembly was just terrible. Things were falling apart. The mechanic had to tighten every single screw on the thing. He even had to make special screws because screws from the engine were missing.


Spend a few more bucks on a European or Japanese bike. It's worth it on the long run~


Re: Crap on eBay

I read a report on these scooters from China once. It was pretty scary to see all the shortcuts that were taken in building them: mechanically, electrically, and finish wise.

Even the fasteners used to put them together were of less than "hardware" (not automotive) grade.

Put all those together plus no dealer/tech support, and you will learn first hand the meaning of ROYALLY SCREWED.

Shiny and new with no guarantee is no better than old, used and proven with no guarantee also.


Two Chinas

John Lieberman /

Just remember to distringuish between the People's Republic of China ("Red" China) and Taiwan. In the former, quality is not emphasized. Production targets are. And the consumer has little choice.

On the other hand, Taiwan is a capitalist country where the market is driven by price and product competition. Crappy stuff doesn't sell for long and only the decent machines survive in the market.

It was the same thing in Germany until the wall came down. West Germany was producting Mercedes-Benz, BMW, and VW while East Germany boasted the Wartburg (a plastic piece of junk with a TWO-STROKE engine!)

Re: Two Chinas


that's an important distinction. In another recent post, I was ranting about someone daring to compare the Chinese Sundiro line to the Taiwainese Kymco line.

I was irritated the poster even made the connection between the two companies. Being that one's been winning awards for 40 years now.... while the other sells $999 crap.

Your Germany comparison was right on. I guess despite all the evil that DOES come from money and capitalism, at least you can get high-quality products under the capitalist systems.


Re: Two Chinas

John Lieberman /


Capitalism is simply the economic deployment of Survival of the Fittest. It's the natural law of the planet and has resulted in the success of the most adaptable species, and the strongest OF each species.

Evolution could not occur without it. It's sometimes cruel and heartless, but it's the only way to guarantee a healthy and vibrant population. The same thing is true of capitalism: It's sometimes cruel and heartless, but it's the best way to maximize wealth, longevity and health of the human population.

If you want to see crappy products, sub-standard living conditions and polluted air and water, check out a socialist or communist country. Sure, the playing field is level --- everyone's got it lousy (except the Party leaders.) Private industry is overseen by the government. But the government is overseen by no one.

Anyway, enough philosophy. Got to hid the road (on my 'ped, of course.)

Re: Social Darwinism

In a natural world, full of danger and predators, yes, Darwinism is the natural process of selection of the fittest.

That does not, and never has applied to HUMAN society. I wish it did.

You see, in a natural environment, the most fit creatures survive, the others die.

In a SOCIAL setting, well, even the mentally retarded can breed. So social Darwinism is about "Getting your genes into the mix"

it's not about STRONG or SMART or resistance to disease. When you look at a 19 year old crack-head with 5 kids... that, my friend, is Darwinism at it's best.

Smart people don't have 5 kids before age 20. Most recognize the challenge of a child and plan one or two, and not before their 18th birthday.

So, who is cloggin up the gene pool? The FASTEST BREEDERS...the younger the better. you WANT your genes to make it to the next generation. Darwinism, but with ZERO natural selection.

So, your comparison to of Darwinism to Capitalism works, but the concept of "survival of the fittest" cannot be appplied to our society.

It has actually reversed itself---My cousin Jen... 4 kids, 3 dads, works at a 7-11 and lives in a 1 bedroom apartment. I'm not sure if she finished high school, but she hasn't had any school since.

Is she an example of survival of the fittest? Nope. I feel bad... for her and her kids.

There is no doubt that Darwinism is a natural theory, that requires NATURE to be cruel, challenging and deadly.

Darwin didn't envision crack heads, living off the state, breeding like animals when he made his theory. He was looking at beak development of finches... in the WILD.

since we're so far removed from natural selection, the concept of darwinism does not apply.

I totally agree with you on the capitalism and communist countries, though. I've heard a lot of people misuse darwins ideas.

Like "the Darwin award" right...supposedly the dumbest people are being removed from the gene pool? sure, dumb people find dumb ways to die.... but that doesn't mean that the gene pool is getting better.

Who is breeding faster? the poor welfare moms with drug habits or the college educated working classes? Who starts breeding earliest? The smart kids with college goals? Or dumb kids, with no sense of future?

Natural Selection and Social Darwinism are totally different. One requires the harsh reality of nature, the other reiles on the protection society grants the weaklings 9mental or physically weak).

I don't have the answers, but darwinism is no longer affecting us, except for the proimise that the fastest, most frequent breeders will fill up the gene pool with their progeny. If you have a lot of kids... at an early age...that's darwinism at its best.


Re: Social Darwinism

Doc Holliday /

You hit it right on the head, brother. De-evolution. Survival of the terminally stupid. Helped along not only by welfare, etc. but also tort lawyers and courts awarding people millions for completely and utterly moronic behavior and misuse of products. Who would have thought this could happen. Our founding fathers would be horrified . . .


Re: Social Darwinism

Social Darwinism is used as justification by the powerful to use the powerless "crack-heads" to become more powerful. Im not a communisist or socialist it is just bothersome when people use explanations of the natural world to explain human culture. Social Darwinism was what Eugenics programs were based on.

Re: Social Darwinism

I don't think I have the answers. I know there are WAY too many useless food tubes---people who have nothing--NOTHING to contribute. Either through their own lack of concern or due to being powerless due to their surroundings.

It's not my right to tell someone who is mentally handicapped not to breed. I think it's a horrible idea, but it isn't my role to tell another human how to live.

I think the bottom line is education. I'm well read on the eugenics programs of the 1900's and how they also evolved into institutions like the CDC and Red Cross (gettting all the funding from the rich who have a perfect vision of how society should be.)

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with what I said or I'm not sure how to respond.

But, it is important to look at the actions of the elite, and see how it affects us (the pee-ons).

I think we agree-- natural terms should NOT be twisted to apply to society and civilization. Two different concepts completely. Like the essay Broca's Brain...

Women are obviously dumber--- duh! they have smaller brains!!

Broca, needless to say, was proved wrong.

Re: Social Darwinism

John Lieberman /


I couldn't agree with you more. Darwinism does not apply to the human race very well anymore. The welfare state has enabled the survival and proliferation of the least fit.

The situation is continuing to get worse, of course. You might want to read "The Bell Curve," a very controversial book published about 10 years ago. In essence, it says that the divide between the "cans" and the "cannots" is getting wider and deeper. This is because people of intelligence and education tend to cluster together, e.g., same neighborhoods, schools, universities, even employment settings, and mate with each other as well. Their offspring continue to become brighter and brighter (on average) over time.

The "other half" hangs together too, and the same result occurs, as that population becomes less and less competent and able to survive on its own. And, as you say, this group is growing much faster than the first group, because the first group enables it to do so by keeping it on economic life support.

Ah, what's a mopeder to do??

Swarm, of course.

Re: pee ons


Why are you classifying you self as on of the pee ons. Obviously you and the others on this forum are really the Eli-tests. I at least consider myself an elites... I can read, type and work on a moped. The entire concept this website is based on is the idea of alternate, fuel effeicent transport.

How many time has the notion of "my ped runs for a week on the fuel that Escalade burns backing down the driveway" been posted on this forum. Ideas and concepts like that make "us" the elite.( or so we think ) With every post asking for help, the replies teach something new. With every person who learns about peds and alt transport, that is one more person saving money, finding joy, and developing mechanical skills. Money is not what separates the elite from the pee-ons. It is knowledge. Judging from your posts, you are smarter than an oak post, and therefore "elite". Had you been a crack head w/ five kids however.. then you can call yourself a pee-on

Re: pee ons (explanation)

Wow-- thanks for your post.

I've often considered us the elite as well everyone here is very unique and usually smart as hell. I'm just a moped mechanic wanna be. But, helping folks troubleshoot basic stuff or knowing the right electrical answers....that is awesome.

When I classified "us" as "pee ons" I was speaking from the position of the power elite. If you're an american laborer, well... look at how companies desert their employees. That's why we are all "pee ons".

but you're right-- it all depends on context. I work within the system, so I support the system. Even if I'm just a small gear in the big machine, I want to know how the big machine works.... so by having that attitude... it makes me feel lees like a slave to the system and more like someone who functions within it.

How do you know if you're a "pee on" ? if you know how much a gallon of milk costs--if you know how much a gallon of gas costs... you're probably a "pee-on".

GWB don't know how much we pay for milk or gas. No f'ing idea what people pay for things they need. Yet, he's at the top of the whole system... weird.

Being one of the power elite would be fun, but I'd be too scared that one day all the 'sheeple' might figure out what was going on, and want to kill me. I'd much rather be an informed "pee-on".

And something else I said about "welfare moms" there are a LOT of people who go on welfare, make themselves better and get out of the system. they use it to help themselves. Thats a very GOOD thing.

I don't want to be crapping on someone, just because they were down and out. I was targeting the people who are in it for the free ride only. money from the state for life...what a dream. Yuck!


Re: Social Darwinism

Brendan Chenelle /

Wow, this post is deep. We are learning about social darwinism during the turn of the century in history. People used to work out of the slums, but now they have given up. It's a sad state of affairs.

Its funny...

It seems the more morally corrupt you are, the higher up the elitest ladder you can climb. Yet as the power elite grow more powerful they still have to depend on the "pee-ons" to do their bidding. True the stones of the great pyramids were often lubed w/ the blood of slaves..... its time to take the power back. Once the last of the great corporations fall (yeah it wil be shitty for those with money in the stock market), then the pee-ons can loot the shambles of the once proud ivory towers.

Hey I got it... here is how to remove the morons from the gene pool. Energy is the answer to it all..knowing how to generate your own energy is the key.(Energy in the broadest sense of the word) Those who know will survive and those that don't will starve and die in the dark...There is enough energy falling in your back yard in a day to power your home for a year. The more you know, the less you have to depend on others.


Hey I just reread my last post... Sorry, I have been drinking.

Natural selection

david f martin /

I'm sure natural selection is alive and well, even in human society.

We happen to be in a period of time when food is plentiful and predators are practically non-existant. That's why we're breeding so plentiful...

'Till the food starts running out, and we're living so close together that disease wipes us out wholescale, or we start eating each other, like rats do (WAR).

Natural selection is not visible during a lifetime, or typically even over a few thousand years, but sudden changes do happen from time to time... maybe our time is coming soon.

Natural selection will ultimately decide who are the "Elites" and who are the "Pee-ons".


Re: Whoops??

Made sense to me.....

Social Darwinism/sheeple (photo)

Here's a neat trading card. Funny, but we were just talking about this.

Check out the attachment. Ver' funny.

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