40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

This is something I've been thinking about for a long time. I'm not really a fan of kitting mopeds until I know all the ins and outs. I think too many kids are buying mopeds that don't run right and opt out for a kit thinking that's going to be a universal save. Then, it comes as a surprise when the thing still doesn't run right.

I'm a fan of trying to tune a moped the old fashion way. There's way more skill involved getting a moped to move without a kit. It's actually pretty rewarding, too.

This is out of context from another post:

"one kid was at 1977 the other day and couldnt figure out why his bike wouldnt idle with a 15 mm bing carb. he had it jetted pretty high and had a bullet exhaust.

Just a word for the wise, 15mm is a huge carb for a moped that isn’t kitted. Stick with a 14 mm if you aren’t going to kit it and work on other mods instead.

on another note, if you do decide to kit it, the 15 mm is a great set up. my boyfriend runs a 64 cc polini with a 15 mm bing (which is recommended..) and does 50 all day with no problems.

learning how to tune your moped properly is totally worth it, though. it’s way more rewarding going 40 on a 50 cc moped than slapping a kit on it and having no idea why it wont run right."

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

15:15 Dellorto SHA is totally reasonable on a stock moby. Especially if you have an aftermarket exhaust.

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

like i said, it was out of context. i took it from a thread about a puch maxi.

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

I was also thinking to myself, many Puchs come equipped with 14mm carbs, so to step up 1mm is way too big? Many people use 15 Bings as a replacement for an old leaky carb, on otherwise stock bikes.

I agree with you totally, though. I did 47 on 49 and I was very happy with it. Since it was an OEM cylinder, I worried less about soft -seizing and reliability issues; no nutso porting to induce hot spots on certain sides of the piston. That being said, I also have 4 kitted bikes, and I like them too. :)

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

not many, most puchs come with 12 mm.

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

The jet may have been to big. I would rather have a moped that would get up to 30 mph real fast,and that be its top speed, than to go slow at the start to build up to go faster than 30mph.

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

i agree as well, i used to be anti kit and learned all about my ped and performance b4 ever getting a kit, or pipe for that matter. I also think ppl should step up with performance parts gradually if its their 1st build rather than just buying all the stuff at once and installing it then trying to figure it all out.

If you step up slow you appreciate what each part gives you and how they all work together, and get a great understanding of the machine as a whole.

And defiantly get into porting b4 getting a kit, understanding engine dynamics is key to a well performing kitted ped.

That all being said I LOVE KITS! its like a I can just bolt on a better cylinder to start from and go from there with porting, and tuning mods etc.

also with kitted peds there are all of a sudden alot more issues such as part stress, drastic powerband changes, and new aftermarket options. also with added power new possibilities in tuning come about such as advances clutch tuning with combined tall gears, proper 3 jet carb tuning is a nessesity to learn for a stellar kitted ped.

these new areas to tackle when a ped gets kitted, are simple if you have a firm grasp on OEM performance and maintenance. Kitted peds are far less forgiving to tuning changes and can quickly end up over heating, seized, and damaged beyond repair internally.

As for rewarding I think they are equally rewarding, since everything you do to an OEM part bike can be done to a kitted ped and beyond.

In SF no one used to have kits but gradually the fast bikes got them and then the rides started to be split, so eventually everyone got a kit (except dom but she weighs under 100lbs) so now we can all ride together again, kitted bikes as personal transport are just better cuz they have more torque and speed. And the hills here will kill a stock bike and most stock modified 50cc bikes, they just don't have the torque to battle in heavy traffic.

I think newbs get into kits here real fast now cuz of that, if you come on a creature ride w/o a kitted ped u might as well go home after the 1st turn. If you do keep up thats all you will be doing for the whole ride, trying to catch up.

and lets face it not everyone has the ability or time to tune a stock bike into a screamer on OEM parts. so what do you do... trow a on that bitch.

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

im just saying kits aren't for noobs as an easy fix.

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

daFishSticks /

going 40 and still having throttle, on 50 is even more rewarding:)

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

) Cupermcnewbster ( /

creatures are fast. I think the first time my friends went to ride with them, one was on a kriedler, the other a demm. I think they made like 1/4 the ride before they were on their own.

Next time we showed up we had some fast bikes and some slow. Cimatti kept up decently because someone small was on it.

I agree though, I think you need to struggle with slow stuff before stepping up to the kitted realm. I rode a stock chappy for a long time, and just getting that running was a feat. It started at like 22 and sucky. I think I got it up to about 28-35 downhill before getting another bike. If you know chappy, you know how heavy they are, and how they aren't all that easy to work with.

I think I went over a year before trying out polini, but it made a world of difference. I mean going from a solid 35 on tomos to 55+ practically overnight was scary and like the greatest thing ever. I still like polini, but I'm currently rocking 50cc's of fury and really enjoying it. I'm doing 45 comfortably and am still faster than some kitted bikes with total reliability. That said, I'll be back to polini soon.

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

Honestly, I wouldn't want to be in a branch where if you restored a bike to the way it was built 30 years ago, and is supposed to run, you would be ostracized.

I thought when you were swarming you were supposed to only go as fast as the slowest member.

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

nope, creatures function differently than most of MA, the slowest member is supposed to aspire and learn to be as fast as the fastest member, thats how we all get better as a group each member pushing the bar higher and higher. Its not just in speed but reliability too, we don't stop the whole ride for broke peds anymore either (we do call at long stops or destination if someone is missing tho) let that be a lesson to them, make ur shit reliable and solid then come back next week.

many ppl don't understand us out here but thats ok, we are a close knit hyper energy group of 50+, we ride very tight, very fast and very often. We challenge any other group to contest our riders and thier "swarming" abilities.

and thats how we like it.

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

I rode a stock bike for 6mo before I put a kit on it, snapped the crank 3 month later and had to learn how to do a motor rebuild my self (no one was into mopeds in SF back then and I did not know about MA yet). Brought the bike back to stock and fiddled with it for the next year or so...

...That's when the Creatures started and I started riding regularly again. The gang got addicted to speed pretty early on, first it was ported stock cylinders by Shaw, then it was TCCD 70 kits, moving on up to polinis. The someone figured out you could get a 21mm phbg onto a polini with a 4 pedal reed valve. Now it's all about porting, 80cc monsters water cooling and dual variating motors. When you look at it like that the core members have progressed over time, it's the up and comers that have the huge learing curve to deal with.

I also firmly believe that before you go and kit your bike you should have a reasonable concept of how the thing actually works.

That being said SF and the rest of CA have come so far in the last 2-3 years that for new people on mopeds that want to ride with us it can be a bit daunting. Unless you have balls of steal and are willing to ride your stock bike WOT from beginning to end you will probably miss a turn or get dusted at some point on the ride. It's the people that don't get discouraged and keep coming back week after week that make an impression.

There is nothing like riding hard elbow to elbow sandwiched between Elliot and Craig with about 5 other bikes in spitting distance doing 45-50 in downtown SF. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

Agreed.

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

Also,to add to your original post.

My friend has a '83 Pacer Super Sport in near mint condition that he rides every few days,beautiful bike that runs amazingly.It didn't start until recently because it had a foul plug but once that was fixed it ran and idled as if it where new.

My best friend has a '94 Tomos Targa LX with an Airsal speed kit that includes a 70cc cylinder,a two piece Biturbo,and a 15mm crappy carb.It runs like shit.We ride it for ten minutes and fix it for 2 hours,it never runs well at all.It takes a ton of kicks to start and idles well but is slow as balls most of the time.

My buddy with the Tomos raced the Pacer and the Pacer stomped its ass to the ground twice.The Tomos was at least 3 bike lengths away at all times.Just goes to show what a well tuned 49cc bike can do.

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

) Cupermcnewbster ( /

riding with the creatures was really fun. You guys are crazy, super blasting everywhere, on shitty city roads. fun.

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

i always know exactly what is wrong with my bike or i have it figured out in a few weeks never put money into it unless i need it though

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

This is what I'm talking about!!!!!!!!! I am a brand new ped owner/rider....super eager to learn. I am of the same mindset which is that I really want to learn the in's and out's of my stock batavus va before I start messing with bringing the speed up. Don't get me wrong, I can't wait to start being able to make it faster, even a few mph's will be a big accomplishment for me. I just found out today for the first time that there aren't really any kits for batavus' but by getting exaust, a different carb, and porting, I can add some mph's. I've been reaching out all over these forums for advice and everyone is being super helpful! Any tips on what type of exaust, carb, etc. I could throw on my baby after I learn the basics?

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

I don't know how I feel about kits yet. I recently traded my '05 Tomos ST for an '08 Sprint, and almost immediately put a Biturbo and '77s kit for the new A55 carb, with a foam filter, and new jets on it, that got it up to 38 mph, then I switched out the rear sprocket for a 22 tooth, and that got me to 43, verified by GPS, and dropped the engine speed back down a bit. I still have decent acceleration. I'm happy with that for now, I may do some more tuning on it later, maybe a Bullet pipe, if the Biturbo falls apart like everybody says it will. Peace. Jerry.

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

Just wanted to add to my last post........I didn't read all of these before I posted and I just wanted to say that the creatures sound like they know whats up, for real. I'm out here in boston and there seems to be a significantly smaller scene that out there. Initially, I wanted to have fun, save on gas, and learn the machine. But the way you guys explain cruising sf. , F@#$ man, that's were it's at. Mad mopeds, mad speed, oh my god, sounds so sick! I've been to sf on skateboarding missions as I've been skating now for like 22 years and sf is easily one of the best spots on earth, bombing hills and shit, hell yeah. I can only imagine crusing out there on a ped going 50+ There's definetely guys out here with fast peds and shit, but you guys mantra about aspiring to be fast and having the balls to stick it out sounds dope. Much props to the creatures and to sf in general. I'd still be stoked to get some advice on how to make my bat VA faster as I save up my loot for a magnum mk 2 which will be my speed project once I learn the basics. And for those of you who either know or see Jake Phelps, you're so damn lucky!

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

Hey Erin,

Yes, I think you've really hit on something here. I think that it is really tempting to get too deep into aftermarket add ons too early. I think part of it is the gadget-ness of it. A few years ago me and a friend (more him than me truth be told) got pretty into rock climbing, and you'd think what could be a simpler sport. At its heart, its just you and a rock face. Of course there is equipment, rope, anchors, harness, ect. But so many people seem to forget the point of it, instead being all about buying more equipment. The same thing for mopeds, one acquires one, or a few, and thinks now what, oh ya I can throw a kit on it. Still not doing what I want? Just change the jet, and so forth without really knowing whats going on. I feel like I'm still on the early side of figuring out my bike, and i've had it almost a couple years. Eventually I'd like to mess with different ones, and maybe play with kitting something, but for now I'm still figuring out what I've got.

I also feel like those getting into mopeds now face something wholly different from the earlier days of MA. I've a lot of respect for those like the creatures that have gotten it down, and expect others to be fast and reliable to ride with them. At the same time, there is something to a group of people going slow and breaking down, and figuring out together how to be faster and more reliable.

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

to david with the batavus: unfortunately you're stuck with a moped that doesn't have a lot of performance modifications easily available. There aren't many (if any) exhausts that will mount properly, and i've never heard of a kitted batavus.

pretty much if you can't get a better exhaust, that limits a lot of other mods you can do.

sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

also-when did this turn into a creatures dick-sucking thread? ;)

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

i ride by myself, that way im always fastest

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

a stock moped can't handle a speedway track.

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

Dustin.

do you remember when you picked me up in some crazy part of LA during Flock yeah, way past Culver City and I offered to pay for gas because I was 20 miles lost out of anyone's way? Then I was bragging that my moby did 38, without a kit before it died and you laughed... You told me how refreshing it was that someone was happy to hit 38, instead of 50?

Nice work Dustin.

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

Nah Erin, Nah, don't sweat it, it's all gravy boats and shit. That was pretty much the extent of my evening last night, finding out that there is not much I can do to gain some serious speed. But you know what? That's completely fine with me because like I said, I'm new blood, and I really want to be able to work on my nice simple bat, cleaning the carb for starters and shit and really getting to know the machine before I start messing with kits and shit, obviously.There's a good group of folks out here in boston and I'm sure by riding and doing fix it's with other peeps i'll be learning not only my bike, but other styles of peds as well. I LOVE all the pics I've seen of magnum mk 2's that are kitted and chromed and f@#$ing beautiful. Saving up as we speak!

But just to clarify......my admiration for the creatures comes from a love of S.F. as a whole, my love for speed, and also my love for going against the norm. If I came off like I wanted to slob yer nobs, that was not the intention.

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

I have a stock bike because I don't have an extra $200 laying around to mod a moped.

I had this crazy idea to completely rebuild a Vespa Ciao with racing components. Then I remembered that I had $5 in my bank account.

Stock it is....

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

toe fur threadkiller /

i like stock. i'm okay with speeds between 30 and 40.

the only reason i would ever get a kit[and only a 50cc kit] is because i live at least 25 miles from everything and it's a twelve mile one-way commute to work.

but i have way more respect for someone who can tune a stock bike to go 40 to 50 than someone who can make an 80cc engine do 58 or whatever.

Re: 40 on 50 is def. more rewarding

hey david word on the street is that bats and puchs have the same top end bolt pattern.....

not the same stroke tho.

but that didn't stop rafter from bolting a puch gillerdonni to a minerelli bottomend on this bike (pic still has minerelli top end on it)

gpsed at 60mph with the puch kit top end fabbed to the minerlli v1 bottom with a special spacer..... you gotta start to think out the box... don't limit urself by what ppl say.. build what you imagine.

ppl used to tell me when i got into peds to buy a puch cuz mobys where hopeless.. no kits.. no one knew anything about performance mobys etc... i showed them by doubling the stock speed of my moby on stock parts and a pipe, then tripled it with performance equipment and with lowend ppl didn't think was possible from a moped. and now there are a bunch of super mobys and alot more part support from the usa moped shops.

I also agree with the "gadget appeal" argument. too many ppl these days r just buying nice parts and expect to have a sick bike from it.. it doesn't work like that at all. Learn with what you have 1st. fast parts don't make fast bikes smart mechanics do. another reason i still think most cdi systems are the biggest waste of $300 on ur ped ever.

and to all those guys into modding stock cylinders shaw from LA is the master guru.. he has some 50cc 60mph screamers. no lowend at all but 60mph.. thats crazy on OEM parts go visit the latebirds in LA somtime and check em out for urself they are sickk!!!!

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