PA50 variator installation

For those of you with PA50's and top speed problems .. I was wondering if this might help.

The PA's front pulley has to be assembled correctly or it won't work properly.

Otherwise you might think you are tightening the nut that holds the left side pulley half on .. but you aren't.

.. the problem is the flat 'tab washer' gets jammed in the threads of the shaft.

Its pretty simple .. but it has to be done right.

It goes like this.

Take the large flat nut off the center.

Take the tab-washer off and lay it on a flat surface and gently tap it flat with a hammer.

Put the tab washer back on and line its flats up with the flats on the shaft .. while holding them lined up .. take a magic-marker and mark the washer and the ramp plate behind it .. so the two marks line up.

Now put the nut on and start tightening it.

You will find the tab washer behind the nut starts to spin in the same direction as the nut .. so take a screwdriver and tap the washer back - so the two marks you made .. line up again.

Tighten the nut

Tap the washer back

Tighten the nut

Tap the washer back

But thats not all.

The belt also drops to the bottom of its path.

It also stops the nut from tightening.

So after a few nut 'twists'... spin the pulley a turn... then the belt will start to ride up higher.

So... its...

Tighten the nut

Tap the washer back

Tighten the nut

Tap the washer back

Spin the pulley

Tighten the nut

Tap the washer back

Tighten the nut

Tap the washer back

Spin the pulley.

This way the nut will get snugged up properly and the variator will work properly.

When you are done the shaft should stick out of the nut a little bit.

Then bend the washer over to secure the nut.

Maybe that will help somebody.

Re: PA50 variator installation

I was mostly thinking of ... ItsLookingUp

(and the other guy who had the 3 bolts thru his back pulley)

Re: PA50 variator installation

ItsLookingUp /

I read this as soon as you posted it. I started moving peds out of the way to get to the PA50 but friends stopped to ride...so, I didn't get to it. I'll go move it to the garage now. I appreciate that you still are trying to figure out why I can't get this ped going faster. I wish I could get half the top end you are now getting out of your PA50. Turns out Honda is out of stock on the ramp plate for the '82 model. That's the only part that shows wear. Mine isn't worn enough to cause the problem I'm having.

Re: PA50 variator installation

ItsLookingUp /

Okay, got the PA50 into the garage. I followed your instructions, but this is not the problem. My ramp plate does mount flush against the pully shaft. Can I send you my front varator for you to inspect? I really believe my problem is one of two things. One, the front varator is not closing enough to make more speed. Two, the timing is off and not reving up enough to spin the varator enough to close further. When I put a timing light on the magneto, the timing is 1 1/2" off the timing mark. However, there is no adjustment for timing. I could send my front and rear varator and a puller if you would be willing to inspect them and compare them to known good units.

Re: PA50 variator installation

Wow ... 1 1/2 inches off ???

How does that happen ?

Thats has to be the source of the problem.

Have you taken the flywheel off ?

It sounds like somebody took it off and didn't line something up correctly ?

On the Pa's with points ... there are 3 pins that locate the flywheel to a 'holder' ... I have never had it off.. but the holder must be located with a key on the crankshaft?

maybe the key sheared?

or is missing ?

I am surprised it even runs at 1 1/2 inches off.

You could ship me that stuff to inspect and ship back .. thats fine with me .. but I doubt I would find anything .. its so simple.

I would take off the flywheel and that holder and see what the deal is with the key.

... the one odd thing (from the past)... one of those ramp plate dimensions you listed was quirte a bit different from mine wasn't it ? .. there might be 3 different ramp plates maybe.

reading about other peoples problems .. (with the same bike) .. bugs me .. I want to have it in my hands and fix them.

Re: PA50 variator installation

ItsLookingUp /

Let me see if I can get pics of the timing. BRB

Re: PA50 variator installation

ItsLookingUp /

I'm wrong the timing is real close to the "F" mark. It isn't the timing. If you are willing I would like to ship the front and rear varator along with a puller. If you would compare it to the others you have to see if there is an obvious difference I would greatly appreciate it. Otherwise the PA is going to drift back to the back of the pile of part bikes, which I would really upset me. I love the PA50 style and ride (if it went over 18 mph).

Re: PA50 variator installation

ItsLookingUp /

Send me an email if you are will to inspect the parts. Do you have a puller? If not I can ship one.

Re: PA50 variator installation

allright.. I'll email ya... (I'll do it.. I just hope its worth it)

Is this puller a Honda part ?

Something you made ?

(I've never had my R pulley apart or off)

Going for a ride right now.

Re: PA50 variator installation

ItsLookingUp /

It's the Honda part. It's a combination front/rear varator ans sprocket puller.

Re: PA50 variator installation

david f martin /

ItsLookingUp, send the belt as well. If you have the wrong size belt, it will mess up the gearing, too.

david

Re: PA50 variator installation

ItsLookingUp /

I have a new OEM belt which is identical to the belt I took off. The belt I took off isn't too worn. I just wanted to make sure that wasn't the problem so I ordered an original for comparison. I Fred want's it I'll ship it. Thanks for helping "Think ahead."

Re: PA50 variator installation

david f martin /

It's probably not the belt, then.

david

Re: PA50 variator installation

Obviously if you have a new belt and you've tried it .. (you should try it even if it looks the same) ... then I don't need it.

I am still using the original belt on mine (now at 4600 miles) .. it even has a 'burned' spot .. (like they sat in one spot with the pulley spinning against the belt ... for a long time)

Still using it .. seems fine to me.

You can pop the belts on and off without any other disassembly .. (cept removing the belt cover).

Re: PA50 variator installation

david f martin /

Fred wrote:

"You can pop the belts on and off without any other disassembly .. (cept removing the belt cover)."

I thought about trying that with my bike, last time you mentioned it, but since I haven't had any problems since then, I haven't gotten a round tuit. Probably won't anytime soon, either, unless I have problems... oh well...

Have you done anything with your clutch, or are you still thinking about it? Do you have spare parts to play with?

david

Re: PA50 variator installation

I pretty much try not to modify stock parts if possible.

So I don't know if I'll bend/cut the stock springs .. despite the fact that I have some extras.

Unless I have to I suppose.

Plus .. springs being made from spring-steel .. they often don't take bending without starting microcracks (even with heat) .. which will certainly leave me stranded at sometime.

tried 2 good autoparts stores .. no go.

Might have to try an email chase from a scooter store to see if they'll measure some of their springs for other models.

but .. I DID switch back to an unaltered variator half tonite .. (no notches).

I get 40 to 42 mph top speed .. and I don't need any gravity or wind or aerodynamec assist to get there .. it pulls clean to top.

It also increases RPM a lot ... I'll guess.. modded variator - 5000rpm at 40mph .. unmodded - near 7000rpm at 40mph.

Halfway in between would be nice.

Also .. one weight end cap had broken into pieces.

Re: PA50 variator installation

david f martin /

Dude, if you've got spare parts, play with them! Your PA isn't stock anymore anyway, so whatcha worrying about?

I've got a PA I'll probably part out, in case you f*ck up all of your spare parts (sometimes it takes a while to find a "sweet spot")...

david

Re: PA50 variator installation

Doc Holliday /

Hi Guys,

I am just curious as to where you got your new belt for the PA 50? Local Honda guys here do not have them. Has anyone found an automotive or other belt that will work?

Thanks,

Doc

Re: PA50 variator installation

Doc Holliday /

Hi Guys,

I am just curious as to where you got your new belt for the PA 50? Local Honda guys here do not have them. Has anyone found an automotive or other belt that will work?

Thanks,

Doc

Re: PA50 variator installation

ItsLookingUp /

Honda dealers can still order them, they aren't cheap. Something slightly over $60.00.

GK says he is using a Dayco #17415 (also has 13A055 stamped on it) which he got at a auto parts store. It was discussed in another recent post: https://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/discuss/1/52353/52353/

You might try to get a dayco or use the number to cross-over to a different brand. All of the auto parts stores I attempted to match my belt at had significantly narrower measurements. I opted to order a OEM belt.

OEM Belt measurements

ItsLookingUp /

The OEM belt is a Mitsuboshi 23100-148-7030

The belt length measured in the top side is 41 inches

The top and side of the belt each measures 19/32 inch

The bottom of the belt measures 11/32 inch

Measurements were taken of an OEM unused belt

Re: PA50 belt

There is another thread right here on the first two pages or so with all kinds of info about PA50 Belts.

Just scroll down and look for it.

Also .. use the 'search' button above and open the time window.

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