kitted engine oil supplement

midday oil /

A little oil in the gas tank is all that is needed to supplement oil injectors on a kitted engine. If your top speed goes up 20%, , supplement your oil injector by 20% of the 50:1 that engines call for. Easy .. no problem. If you have an injector your engine was designed to run with it.

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

Terry Horlick /

Seems to me that if you kit your engine and it gives 20% more power it will be sucking down 20% more fuel and therefore 20% more lubricant. No change in oil/fuel mixture or an adequately functioning oil injection system should be necessary.

That said, if you like burning or using more oil it shouldn't do any real harm to increase the amount of oil you use... after all you don't need all of that 20% gain! Also we need more oil in our air and on the ground.

IMHO, Terry

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

injectors?

uh no.

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

injectors have a habit of failing ditch the injector and run strait premix

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

Matt Scout The Scouting Dcon /

_If you have an injector your engine was designed to run with it._

Yeah, if the engine is stock. And in many cases the engine was not designed with oil injection in mind, it was a marketing afterthought for lazy people. You are throwing a kit on the engine, which adds stress. Stress that the oil injection system may not be able to counter. So the SAFER alternative is to remove that system and just premix.

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

yeah if you have a honda with a bullet proof mikuni oil pump oil injection will never fail unless your hose falls off

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

midday oil /

Terry - if your engine gains it's extra power in cubes per inch (if you've oversized your rings or piston) then that sucks in more gas, but an oil injector works on RPM, injecting no more oil than when your enjine was smaller cubes, so you need extra oil to regain the 50:1 ratio called for. But you are also right in that if your extra horsepower is coming from higher rpm with no increase in cubes, you don't need to add any more oil as the injector will also be turning at higher rpms. I suppose, though, that if an injector is electronically controlled, if there are injectors like that, it would have to be modified or oil added to the gas.

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

midday oil /

If injectors were prone to failure then hundreds of millions of engines put out by every manufacturer around the world have been misdesigned .. but riders are prone to forget to fill the oil reservoir.

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

midday oil /

There's no stress if you add the little extra oil needed to the gas. The 'marketing afterthought' was for sound engineering, reliability, avoiding the hazards (explosions, spilled gas) and miscalculations (over-under ratios), inconvenience of mixing away from home, of premixing. Lazy people do not ride mopeds .. except for me that is. I'm so lazy I don't like to spend all my life supporting the expenses of a car or truck.

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

Edward Richardson /

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

ok ii am going to entertain this injector idea with my moped knowledge (i'm seriously curious not trying to cause shit) lets say I need to upjet 15 jet sizes from stock to properly jet for my new kit (be it 50cc or 80cc whatever) pipe and larger carb. the motor now makes more power and revs higher, the percentage is unknown (how you anyone figure that out anyways aside from a dyno.)

how does the oil injector recalibrate for this new situation? if i understand it correctly, it gives a specific dose at every revolution that was predetermined to be 50:1 at the stock jet size in the stock carb.

So if I upjet 15 sizes then the amount of oil in each dose will no longer be adequate correct. or am i missing something? In that case you either need to add oil to the gas at some ratio thats pretty much undeterminable or bypass the injector all together to obtain an accurate oil to gas ratio.

is this wrong i have no experience with oil injectors? something tells me that if the oil is added after the carb thus its not metered by the main jet it will always be at the wrong ratio if that main jet is changed since more fuel is blasting out the jet than the oil dose was designed for.

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

basically in the case mentioned above what if any would be the advantage to using the oil injector at all.

I'd think to get a more accurate mix one would pre mix the whole amount of oil and ditch the injector, since using jet sizes to calculate how much fuel is entering your motor is not ever going to be as accurate.

Bypassing the injector altogether would be safer, easier and less work cuz you know in one step if the oil ratio is correct, you don't need to calculate anything nor do you have to fill the oil reservoir any more. By just adding the oil pre carb in the gas so it can be properly metered by the main jet if more efficient and more accurate on a kitted bike.

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

and u would have to premix any way so premix it all

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

true harold but its always the knowledgabe that should enlighten the ignorant.

Basically the second you modify the jetting or carb at all the oil injector provides completely the incorrect amount of oil regardless of anything else.

And to use it still would mean you never really know how much oil is going in, you have to calculate some mix ratio using your old and new jet sizes. When tuning, once u add the oil to the tank you can't take it out so you never have an accurate amount if you are still using the injector and swapping jets.

Furthermore IMO its less convenient to mix and fill the oil tank.

case closed.

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

midday oil /

You would only have to supplement.

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

well i tried

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

Edward Richardson /

Ahh But if the injector system is of such a great benefit, where are all the numerous aftermarket retro fit oil injector systems for the less advanced European designs of the late 20th Century. CDI systems, Advanced Exhaust systems, Improved and Larger Fuel Systems, Improved Bearing systems, all are proven improvements on less efficient or less powerful systems. I would suggest that lack of the existence of such a system from the aftermarket which has blessed us with the "Tornado Air Cleaner" and the "LED Windshield Sprayer Nozzle" would suggest that such a product would be from the "Tits on a Bullfrog" school of design that they couldn't even sell to mathematically impaired North Americans.

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

zizz i agree.

we(me and my brother, Avid Moped Faggots) have a kitted revival, that has been running a stock oil injection for 14000+ miles with no premix at all.

we were discussing this today as i am concerned about my tomos with a kit.

i am going to run pre-mix until im comfortable with the injection system but think about it like this...

anyone ever soft-seize while coasting down a hill on a pre-mix bike? thats because you let off the throttle, and the hill spun the engine, no throttle+ spinning engine= no gas, and more importantly no oil. Seizure!

but thats the beauty of oil injection, that it is going to deliver oil to the engine every rotation, ive also discovered it has a jet on my PHVA Carb. i am going to try and open that jet with a bore kit or purchase a bigger dellorto with lig injection.

not many will agree with me, and thats ok. but we havent had any issues with the oil injection yet, and its plausible we are just lucky.

the seize i got, i believe is due directly by running lean, witch led to over-heating. i was running pre mix, so i dont believe oil was the issue.

i'll let everyone know how this goes. ive got a mint fucking magnum in my basement im starting to get going. i want to waste my time on that for now. later!~SABAT

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

It's still totally possible to seize a injected bike downhill. A two-stroke engine relies on the oil and the gas to cool itself. While an injected motor would have a marginally higher seize threshold than a premix bike, it would probly barely be noticably higher. You say you think you seized because of running lean; that's why anyone who's seized going downhill has done so. It has nothing to do with oil in that case, it has to do with not getting enough cooling mixture into the cylinder. An injector helps that situation not at all.

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

i agree with what your saying... you gotta idle down a killer hill to apply what your saying... i dont live on a mountain soo i cant really take all of this into consideration.

as for the airsal kit i siezed.

please let me refraise it.

i seized the shit out of my kit, because i was really really Really! fucking stupid about it. it was my first kit. none of you were there, it was at somthinglike 3am, i was pissed off, and it had it coming when i decided to beat on a cylinder i hadn't properly broke in. i was probally running 3-5 jets too lean.

but hey everyone makes mistakes, and maybe you all think im gonna make them over and over, but im just trying to share my progress here.

and that mint magnum? fucking siezed to shit, can somone explain how to turn the flywheel with a breaker bar?? i dont have my puller at this house do i need it?

~SABAT!

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

midday oil /

Retrofit injectors is a good idea, but would be too expensive.

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

midday oil /

Yours is great news, Sabat. There are others who relate similar stories. The only persoanal experience injector problems related in this forum so far that I have seen was the same author who bought two bikes which were damaged when purchased.

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

midday oil /

That's why moped manuals tell us to open the throttle once in a while when running downhill. Going west on the Trans Canada putside of Sault. Ste. Marie Ontario is a five mile hill.

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

Matt Scout The Scouting Dcon /

It's a jerry-rig that negates the purpose of the oil pump to compensate for the added stress of the engine.

And the simplicity behind your mixing strategy is horrifying. 20% speed increase? I got that on my Puch with just a pipe. (30 mph to 36 mph) With kit's you're looking at closer to 75 to 100% and higher speed increases. By your math, you would end up with a 25:1 mix if your bike goes from 30 mph to 60 mph with the kit. (100% speed increase = 100% increase in oil, meaning 50:1 in the tank in addition to the oil injection) The only thing that would stop your rings from sticking in their grooves might be the fact you're fouling plugs every few miles.

Sorry rizz. The idea may have merit, but the complexity needed to correctly figure out the additional mix to compensate for the kit is not worth the hassle. Which is exactly why kitted bikes go premix.

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

Now you're just making shit up... You have no personal... Gah, why bother.

OMFG WHEEZER!

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

true for real kitted bikes, not ur run of the mill "throw a kit on it" ped^^

when I see a tomos with oil injection hanging with with the real kit tuner 55+ crowd during an entire rally, I will believe in its ability to provide oil for a kitted ped. Till then try not to fall off ur "kitted" tomoses when I blast you.

You know those peds at rallys hitting 60, 65, 70mph and holding it for 10-15miles at a time, going pretty much balls out all weekend rn't using injectors (not even the tomos). They are also the same bikes that don't seize at rallys, win all the races, and go on all the rides even the 80mile ones.

just saying.

they might not be ultimately as reliable as a stock tomos but they are damn fucking reliable for what they are: 400% increase in power, and an upjet of over 60 steps. Oil injectors on a bike like that are just one more variable that can send a $600 setup into the trash...

if your going for a mild increase in speed then sure trust the injector it will probably work great for you, many mild tunes and stock bikes can run at 60 or 70:1 if its a good synthetic so don't sweat it. But if your planning for some real power from your setup, ditch the injector. there are more important things to worry about, and minimizing variables in the setup is very important. the bikes mentioned above also run 32:1 ratios generally.

Re: kitted engine oil supplement

"if your engine gains it

« Go to Topics — end of thread

Want to post in this forum? We'd love to have you join the discussion, but first:

Login or Create Account