50cc's @ 11,000 RPM's (OT?)

http://www.mopedhospital.com/img/exhaust.jpg

I bought the new scooter, for about 2600.... liquid cooled, 50cc, Kymco "Super-9" I loved the performance, the braking, a real tuff bike, it has little heat vents that keep your hands warm... vented from whatever cooling system it has. I have to admit, I paid 300$ extra for the liquid cooled model without knowing what or how liquid cooling worked on a 2-stroke.

It can't replace the big smile I get when I ride the mopeds, but it is a very fun toy. Anyway, here's where I'm at with the bike....

I added the exhaust pipe...always the first step in modding a bike... but it cost 155$ just for the pipe, and you have to pull the bike apart to add the "roller weights" which I'm just learning about. So, obviously, I'm not going to do the adjustments to the clutch/variator myself. So I had to pay for two hours of labor... nearly 300$ just to add the scooter version of a biturbo.

The pipe looks cool in the gif (which I hotlinked and attached....Fred's gonna kill me.. for not putting it inline...) but on the bike it looks wimpy compared to the original pipe.

It has a bizzare bend in it, a U-turn--- I do think that's cool looking,

The pipe was attached this afternoon, today was the first day of riding with it. The first thing I noticed was a drop in initial take off power... it used to um... 'snap' into the 'powerband' with any rev of the engine.... now, it does not engage at all until 4000 RPM's. It 'slides' forward, not quick like it was before the pipe... BUT at about 8-12 mph she rockets up to 40ish, and then climbs steady but not rapidly until the speedo is buried way over 80KPH (judging from the way it was climbing) I think I'm doing 55 on level ground, perhaps slightly higher.

I do not trust my speedo, yet, even though it is brand new. I need a car to calibrate with me... it seems like bike speedos run higher while cars run lower....

it seems to me, that a bike doing 30 will say it's doing 35, while a car doing 30 will show it's doing 25... but, I digress...

My speedo buries at 50, so I don't know how fast I'm going. I'll dig up some older threads on replacement speedos.... or just know how fast it is, top speed... then I know I'm between 50 and top speed...

While testing it today, going down a long straight but not too steep downhill, I was redlining at 11,000 rpms. Even when I let off, the bike stayed redline, so I kept on the gas, to keep it lubed.

Here are the other options I have for performance parts. I was hoping for some good advice from Fred, or anyone who had modded out a scooter. I'm not ready for the 72cc kit, yet, because it says you can hit 13k easy, and unless you're responsible with the throttle, you'll need a ring job every 10 hours of use.

HERE'S THE HOTLINK:

http://www.mopedhospital.com/performanceparts.html

I need advice, even though they give 'advice' on this page. I wonder, because they state installation time of 15 mins on the technigas pipe, and it involves a lot more than bolting on a biturbo... so I know they're at least partially full of shit,

I know it won't wheelie without the 72cc kit and a good bounce/yank. The front end is too heavy--scary to have it up inn the air anyway. I don't want it to come up...even though in the past, I've indicated I thought it would be a good idea...

But, I would like it to be the best, most modded, tricked out scooter it can possibly be, without adding the kit. I know I'd cook my engine with the kit. I can't be trusted.

Fred: I asked for advice in an earlier thread--- and I apologize if you gave a good answer and I missed it. I forgot what the thread was called anyway....I trust your advice more than anyone's.

Oh, and as for the subject of MOPEDS, what's up with no one at all responding to my post:

https://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/discuss/read.php?f=1&i=48540&t=48540

I mean really-- are you guys going on nice rides too? Do you ride with friends? where do you go?

I think it's totally stupid that people complain about non-moped threads, and spend time name calling and talking crap...and then a PURE nothing but MOPED post comes up and it just scrolls away without a single response,

I'm not looking for people to just say "oh great, glad you had a nice ride...." I kind of thought other people might post some of their summer adventures.

Anyway, if you ARE one of the folks who piss and moan about the content of the forum, you ought to make an effort to respond to the posts that are 100% related to mopeds and the moped community,

Oh, well. Looking forward to your advice, and although the post I'm bitching about was titled "Maine Swarms" I think other people should post about their "Non-Army" swarms. The members can put their adventures up front, in the news....

In Summary:

1. How do I trick out my scooter to the max w/o adding the 72cc (hotlinks included)

2. Don't bitch about forum content if you don't respond to posts involving friends, mopeds and swarms (and nothing else).

Sincerely Yours,

Wayne

technigasexhaust.jpg

Re: 50cc's @ 11,000 RPM's (OT?)

david f martin /

Wayne, if you use lighter rollers in your variator, it will take off more quickly.

I've gathered, from reading this forum for the past year or so, that a pipe contributes more to top end than to take off.

Not that mine is a Moped (though legally it is, here in SC), I haven't really had any adventures on mine lately. It gets me back and forth to work reliably (about 20 miles a day), and when I get home, I look forward to reading about someone else's adventures.

Normally a bike adventure for me means breaking down and having to push, or having my bike stolen, so I try to avoid them...

However...

On my way home from work last Saturday afternoon, a big Mercedes pulls up alongside me at 40mph with the windows open... Looked like a father and son (maybe 10 years old)... The son is fascinated with my machine... We pulled up to a stoplight, I waved back at them, and the kid told his dad, "I want one of those!"

That was pretty cool... Most folks avoid eye contact with 50cc'ers...

david

Re: 50cc's @ 11,000 RPM's (OT?)

>1. How do I trick out my scooter to the max w/o adding the 72cc (hotlinks included)

>

Whatever you do to increase performance... (big-bore kit or otherwise) ... is pretty much going to decrease reliability.

The more you use the performance increase.. the more that the longevity and reliability goes down ... there is no free lunch Wayne.

The manufacturers have been playing this game for a while... they pick their parts to give the best performance within an acceptable amount of reliability and longevity ... you step outside their choices and you almost always reduce rel. and long.

You've also discovered the other thing they strive for... wide powerband .. (the range of useful RPM) .. when you go for more peak HP... the low end performance fades.

To give any more details.. somebody would have to be familiar with your bike/motor.

Re: 50cc's @ 11,000 RPM's (OT?)

On the pic in the post thing.. yeah Wayne.. its puzzling.. I would think you of all people would be 'on' that like mad .. I guess you just never know.

Re: 50cc's @ 11,000 RPM's (OT?)

I think I will add a kevlar drive belt and the delta clutch. it claims that the delta will eliminate the drop that I am experiencing off the starting line.... and the kevlar belt.... if the bike is already open, why not throw it in....?

I'll also try to avoid going over 9000 rpm's.......because it 'redlines' at 8000..... I figure 1k isn't going to kill anything.

I think I might start adding a little oil to the mix...even though it is injected.

Thanks for your advice, Fred---- sound as always.... I guess it's the difference between a reliable ride and a tricked out vehicle... I want to have a foot on each side... and with the pipe, I'm already getting too many RPM's.

Maybe I should just accept the rings will cook, eventually, and then replace them with better ones if there are any. This scooter is a toy, so I can live with the fact that I'll always have to have some work done. It sucks, cause I don't know how to do the work, yet.

Like an SUV... or off road vehicle... yes, you might have 4wd, and full offroad capability, but if you do some serious off-roading, you're going to be replacing parts.

Even a mountain biker... if you really give your bike a constant pounding, it just goes without saying that your rims are bound to warp out. and... you replace them, so you can continue beating on the new rims....

Thanks--- and I'm still listening if anyone else has anything, and how about some stories of summer adventures?

-Wayne

Re: 50cc's @ 11,000 RPM's (OT?)

check out the dyno on before and after.

50cc (stock) is about 3.05 CI. good rule of thumb, 1hp per 1CI is damn good. this little baby stock puts out 4.1!

70cc kit is about 4.27 CI and its hp is 7.5! almost double. sick. thats rear wheel too so....ouch.

with stock gearing, no wonder these things red line 3k over 10k. you mash it for about 10 min and youre rings will most defanatly fry. they should make an over-drive kit to change you trans so you dont burn up. 2 gears would be all it takes, or you could just change to higher sprockets. not as much torque but real haul ass (im guessing 65 mph) and your rpms would stay lower, thus saving life.

dave h

Re: 50cc's @ 11,000 RPM's (OT?)

Matt Wilson /

Wayne,

I've never worked on a Kymco, but after playing around with lots of different parts on my Yamaha Zuma this is what I've found works and what doesn't

I found the malossi multivar improved my top speed and take off. Because the variator is reshaped it closes and opens more. This allows you to get a wider gearing range. I don't know if this works on a Kymco but on my Zuma it was a huge improvement. ~6mph It brought me from 43-49mph.

When you change anything on a variator scooter you have to change transmission parts to compensate.

When you added your pipe you also should have added a stiffer clutch spring. The stiffer spring will give you back, your low end, and make it so you have constant power throughout the range, not just from 15-45mph. If you put in too heavy a spring it will comprimise your top speed. Many scooter pipes come with lighter rollers and a stiffer spring although some dont.

Don't bother with the kevlar belt...yes its stronger but don't bother to buy one until your stock belt breaks. They make no signifiant difference in speed in top speed or low end.

And the clutch may make a difference for you but replace the springs first (they're cheap $8 @50cc.nl)

Get the Yellow and Red ones.

And ask the dealer if they gave you a bigger main jet with the pipe. You don't want to seize it and I don't know if you can do a plug chop on a water cooled???

Hope this helps a little

Matt

Re: 50cc's @ 11,000 RPM's (OT?)

Yes.. it backs up my plan to get stiffer springs... I'll probably add the new clutch too... not too much $$

They didn't touch the carb and said I wouldn't need to without the piston kit.

I've been adding a little oil to the mix... just in case... You can't hardly see the spark plug..... so chops are a pain.

Re: 50cc's @ 11,000 RPM's (OT?)

Matt Wilson /

Wayne,

There is probably an easy way to get to the spark plug. Kymco wouldn't make you pull body panels just to replace a fouled spark plug. Check it out or ask the dealer.

And as long as the dealer you bought the bike from is doing the work, I wouldn't worry too much about seizing it. If you do its their problem.

And get the springs first they alone make a huge difference.

Good Luck!

Matt

Re: 50cc's @ 11,000 RPM's (OT?)

Matt Wilson wrote:

> There is probably an easy way to get to the spark plug.

> Kymco wouldn't make you pull body panels just to replace a

> fouled spark plug. Check it out or ask the dealer.

> And as long as the dealer you bought the bike from is doing

> the work, I wouldn't worry too much about seizing it. If you

> do its their problem.

I wouldn't be so sure about that ... he voided his warranty the minute they laid wrenches on it to modify it.

And I would have to ask several questions (and get the right answers) ... before I would trust that they knew what they were doing.

They might know what they are doing ...

... they might not.

A plug chop would be a very smart idea.

The winner in any dispute over who is responsible for damaged parts (or even an injury) ... is not even SLIGHTLY assured.

If the dealer is a small one barely scraping by .. he will be told to take a hike .. if they are larger and want to protect a good reputation .. they might give in and fix a seized motor.

(it would only cost THEM $50 to $75)

It would cost Wayne $200.

Re: 50cc's @ 11,000 RPM's (OT?)

Fred-- You're right. I haven't laid down on the ground yet, but you can't see a plug anywhere. I'll check the owners manual.

I also assume that my warranty has been voided.... it was only 6 months, or x miles, whichever comes first. with the short Maine riding season, I think I'll see 6 mos without a breakdown, so not so worried about that.

I don't mind doing a few hundred dollars work each summer... but I don't want an unreliable maintenence nightmare.

I think going over 9 or 10k for too long would be bad. I know when I've tried to keep highway speeds, the bike needs to stay redlined at 9 or 10.... I think that's bad, unless you're just going to the next exit.....

Thanks for the advice. The reason I want to do the clutch AND belt and spring all at once, is because I pay 'em an hour labor just to get into the project, then whatever it takes to complete. If I add springs...then add a clutch...then add kevlar belt...

that's 42.00 + 42.00 + 42.00 just for labor, vs getting it all in one shot... plus, the 42.00 is an initial charge.... it could take an hour or more for some projects... if the bike is open, adding the belt makes sense.... then it won't ever break at a bad time...

Plus, adding the clutch and belt is the last part of the "Non 72cc" mods for this machine. My bike will have the best performance for this 50cc model.....Hopefully, the rings will hold up, and I'll find out where my plug is hiding for some chops.

Maybe the liquid cooling will help the bike and rings at those higher RPM's.... I would think so... the vents by your hands pump out a lot of hot air...

Thanks

-Wayne

11,000 RPM (E-mail from Dealer)

Yes, a little off topic, but here is an interesting E-mail that has gone back and forth from me and the Moped Hospital (who sells mostly scooters...?!?) I'm still waiting for the final response to the last set of questions. Yes... if you read my messages, I seem wishy-washy about what to do next... it's because I am. I don't want to cook or ruin anything and I'm not able to mod it out myself yet.

I do not want a maintainence nightmare either.

This is good info for anyone wanting to mod their kymco, or for people unfamiliar with the way to mod scooters.

I know I never heard of roller weights, stiff clutch springs or the other yellow one... rear torque springs or something...?

Anyway, the next post will be the E-mail. I wanted to title it differently, to reflect that it's about modding Kymco, specifically.

-Wayne

50cc' @11,000 RPM (Kymco Mods)

Forum Readers:

Read from the bottom up. I didn't bother to cut and paste the responses into the proper sequence.

I'll add his final response when I get it.

-Wayne

-----Original Message-----

From: Broderick, Wayne R

Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 12:09 PM

To: 'P F McDonnell'

Subject: RE: Modification of Super-9

Thanks for the reply! Your E-mail had a lot more useful and important info than the brief phone call I had. Although, the English-sounding fellow was very helpful as well.

Another bit of advice, when you have a moment. The only reason I did not want to upgrade to the 70cc kit was because I was worried about having to replace my rings every summer. I saw the bike hit 11,000 rpms while zooming down a hill (with just the technogas and rollers)..... and I was worried that the kit would provide even higher RPM's. I'm not abusive on the engine, and we do have a lot of hilly areas around us.

I am less concerned with "Top Speed" as a really quick bike, that "jerks" forward when you rev it. I want the raw-low end power.... I noticed a photo of a guy who was actually lifting the front end up....wheelie style. I'm assuming he must have really strong clutch springs and is geared for a high power take-off. Being able to do a smoke show or wheelie.... VERY cool for a modded scooter.

So, the last bit of advice I need is about the "ring-wear" on the 70cc kit, and what I will need to add if I do opt into the kit.

I was thinking that the liquid cooling would help a lot in keeping the rings from cooking. I have almost 800$ to spend on mods, and since I'm not doing my own work, I want to add everything all at once, to keep the labor costs lower.

If I buy the 70cc kit, what other parts will I absolutely need to add. Your bike sounds very sweet, and I'd like to trick mine out in similar fashion. I was also thinking about adding some parts that aren't "essential" to combine with the kit. The next trip to the shop will be the last one I make for a long time, so I want to take care of everything that I need (or might need) with one shot.

Thanks again. I've met a lot of people locally who have stock Kymco's and I tell them all about your website.

Yours,

Wayne

-----Original Message-----

From: P F McDonnell [mailto:mcdonn19@bellsouth.net]

Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 11:43 AM

To: 'Broderick, Wayne R'

Subject: RE: Modification of Super-9

Hello Wayne,

I am driving a Super 9 now with all the goodies and love it.

I do not feel that the Malossi variator is worth the money for what it gives in performance. It costs 81.44 and will not give performance like adding a cylinder kit which for some reason is not much more expensive for what you get out of it. The variator does last far longer and smoothes out the range of power compared to the stock unit.

What you really need is more stall on the clutch which is what the Malossi/Polini ( 89.62) clutches do. Another cheaper alternative is to change the springs (15.00) in your existing clutch and perhaps going a little lighter on the roller weights. The Tecnigas rollers are 6.5 gram and for your weight perhaps 6.0 gram would work better.

The rear torque drive spring can also be changed to a yellow which has near the same effect as changing the rollers and lessens the drop in rpm at 40 mph. This spring helps a lot if you are in hilly regions.

I am unfortunately out of the Kevlar belts but your stock one should be fine until I get my next order.

Hope this helps.

Steve

-----Original Message-----

From: Broderick, Wayne R [mailto:WBroderick@unum.com]

Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2002 7:40 AM

To: 'mcdonn19@bellsouth.net'

Subject: Modification of Super-9

Hello. I need advice before I order parts. Here is the situation:

I have a stock super-9. I just added the technigas and included roller weights. The bike is Brand New, under 1k miles.

I DO NOT want to add the upgrade kit, piston or cylinder, however, I do want the bike to run at the peak performance for a 50cc machine.

The Super-9 has been derestricted, and will see 50mph or so. My wife's people 50 has a lower top speed, and no pipe, and frequently, she is able to take off much faster, and sometimes I can't catch up to her.....

I plan to add the delta clutch and Kevlar drive belt. The bike is still very new, and I am not adding the upgrade kit. Will the performance variator make any difference on a new machine? I weigh 220 lbs, and I notice that the bike 'bogs' before 12mph, but then takes off very fast, and then slows down again around 40, but keeps accelerating slowly, until it hits top speed.

I know I want the delta and kevlar....your web page seemed to suggest that the variator was only good for the upgrade kit, or for when your stock variator gets worn out.

Please explain if I need or should add the variator, as well as any other suggestions to make my bike run the best without doing the actual 72cc kit.

Thank you in advance. Your web site is great, although the MIDI music on the front page is awful.

Please respond as soon as possible, as I want to order the parts I need ASAP.

Thank you very much.

Wayne Broderick

Flex Technician

Re: 50cc' @11,000 RPM (Kymco Mods)

You have misconceptions about what a big bore kit does .. or is.

Why do you think a big bore kit gets MORE rpm ?

They don't necessarily ... In fact... if you consider that they have more HP at all rpm's than a smaller displacement motor at the same rpm... then the reality is that you can ride it at LOWER rpm and go the same road speed.

(all other thinge being equal)

i.e. - you would have to rev a 50cc motor at say 10,000 rpm to make the same HP as a 100cc motor at 5000 rpm.

(those are numbers for an example only)

Thats not taking into account anything about the quality of materials or manufacturing in the big-bore kit.

Re: 50cc' @11,000 RPM (Thanks Fred!!)

Fred--- Thanks. I knew I had to be missing something....

I kept thinking, if the pipe alone is pushing 11,000, what about the big bore...!?!

So, rather than giving the 50cc a constant pounding, I can do more work with less RPM's.... so I shouldn't worry so much about hitting "Mega RPM's" because there will be power to spare.

Fred-- You're great to have around. You've helped me a lot with this Scooter project alone.

Thanks!

-Wayne

Kymco-specific information

david f martin /

Wayne, you should pay attention to technical posts about any bike. Kymco bikes run on the same principles as any other machine. You will find plenty of information on gearing, variator weights, exhaust mods, porting, etc. that will be useful to you when you decide to turn your own wrenches. The only Kymco specific information you will need is for part numbers, sources, prices, etc.

Re: Kymco-specific information

I do try to pay attention... I loved when I first learned how performance pipes boost power...... And, I'm kind of embarassed that I didn't realize that a performance pipe would naturally jack up the rpm's while a piston kit would increase the power per stroke, thus eliminating the need for the super high rpm's. Duhhhhh. Sometimes you just don't connect the dots.

I've been reading the moped posts for a long time, and I read all the technical ones, too. BUT, I don't see much about clutches, clutch springs, variator weights, torque springs...etc. these things aren't Kymco-specific, but I haven't seen anyone replacing the clutch springs on their Puch, and not many mopeds have variators... only the real good ones.

I'm not really disagreeing with you-- because I haven't used the forum search to look for roller weights, etc....

Being a scooter owner yourself, you must agree that a lot of the mods I'm considering (other than the pipe and 70cc kit) are somewhat outside the normal "moped" mods.

On my QT-50's, yes... making them fast would involve a LOT of research about tuning, porting, adjusting, honing, etc... because that's really the only way to mod out a QT... being good at small engines...

on my Kymco, I'm going for pure "Bolt on" horsepower and transmission. No tuning, no honing, just a plug chop now and then. That's all I want, is a high performance "Toy" scooter that does 0-55 in a heartbeat.....I know it's not a "Toy" and I could get killed... but by "Toy" I mean something I don't put any effort into, but get lots of great results.

I will learn how to do scooter repairs... that's a given, but on this new one, I'm not touching the insides for awhile. Let someone else do the mods, and I can have all the fun. Although, fine tuning the roller weights is probably a personal preference, and I ought to figure out that part.

Back to the QT-50.... Now, If I could get that to whip russ's bike... that would be hot stuff. It sees 25-28.... but I hear that those and the PA-50's are similar, and I would love to get a QT up to 35ish.... that would be something I would be REALLY proud of.... and it would have to be done by tuning, porting, cleaning and using smarts....

Bah, anyway, that's my rant about modding scooters vs. mopeds... and why I agree that the forum is based on small 2-stroke engines, but disagree that there is a lot of info about "scooter" based mods, like variator, clutch, all the stuff earlier in this post and in the thread.

Sincerely Yours

Wayne

Re: Kymco-specific information

david f martin /

Wayne, I'd love to see you hop your QT. That's gonna take some pure mechanical stuff, not just bolt on stuff. Definitely keep us posted on that one...

david

Re: 50cc' @11,000 RPM (Kymco Mods)

Here's the final E-mail from the Moped Hospital. I cannot say enough about their service and support. He was very very nice, even though I was asking some kinda dumb questions (like assuming the big bore kit would add MORE RPM's)

If you have a Kymco, and you want it to be "all that it can be" please, take my advice and give these guys a try. I'm amazed that a small engine shop had such incredible service.

Anyway, here's the paste of his final response.....very nice guy, and I'm ordering the parts he suggests today.

Wayne,

The worry about ring wear and engine life should not be a concern if the work is done right. There should be no reason to replace rings every year if good synthetic oil is used, air filter cleaned and the carb jetting is correct. I have air cooled Cobras running around down here that have over 16,000 km on them and are still going strong. All they need are plugs,belts,rollers and tires.

I honestly have seen modified engines last longer! Mainly because you will be at 35-40 mph at half throttle or less. The engine simply is not working as hard to reach the same speed.

Malossi makes a cylinder that is cast iron and 2 ring piston that will work just fine for you and Airsal which uses 1 ring and is aluminum. I personally use the aluminum because of the better port timing that gives greater performance.

For what you are looking for the Malossi would be the best option with the stock exhaust or the Next pipe. The carb needs to be changed so everything is pre jetted for the kit. You can use the stock carb but the mechanic really needs to understand jetting to get it right.

10,000 rpm is not much for a small l/c 2 stroke. Our a/c race bike is at 13000 all the time and no problems.

I would recommend:

Malossi l/c cylinder 130.00

Stiffer rear clutch springs set 15.00

Next exhaust- you already paid for it

17 mm carb with auto choke 89.00

7.0-7.5 gram rollers 8.99 a set

Yellow rear torque spring 12.00

I am quoting dealer price so please do not repeat.

Ernest the gentleman you spoke to has a Malossi cylinder on his Super 9 but has the R/S exhaust and the 17mm carb. Nothing else was changed. Not a single problem and it has been 3 months. We usually test everything for 1500-2000 km before we sell it. Last thing we need is the product or our name getting a bad rap.

No pressure, just think it over. I still feel just changing the rollers and or the rear spring will help you now.

Steve

P.S I hate the music also but the big cheese will not change it. He likes the “Island” sound.

Re: 50cc' @11,000 RPM (Kymco Mods)

Matt Wilson /

Wayne,

I really think that you should just get the yellow torque spring, and some rollers for now.

After you get the transmission tuned correctly I think you will be more than happy with the scooter.

But the malossi 70cc kit is the same one everyone puts on their Zumas. I have one on right now, but I haven't driven it too much.

However, I'm not too sure about getting a new carb. The stock one is a 17.5mm and from that email it sounds like the only difference will be the jet size. And jets only cost $1-5 each depending on where you get them.

Matt

50cc' @11,000 RPM (spousal abuse)

Matt, I do think you're right about the springs and rollers....

BUT, I'm not taking any chances.

My wife (on an unmodified air cooled people-50) has been passing me on hills lately. she laughed so hard yesterday she was actually crying. This happens every single day. I think the amount of her laughter depends on the size of my frown as she passes me.

She started calling my Super-9 the "trumpet" because of the sound the pipe makes and she says it only goes as fast as a "marching band".

I can't put up with that any longer. My bike cost more, looks faster and has been modified, and has liquid cooling. Still, she makes me look slow on her people-50. I can take her on a straight or downhill with no trouble, but she gets me on initial acceleration and hill climbing every time.

So, I just called the local dealer and ordered:

Malossi l/c cylinder

Stiffer rear clutch springs set

17 mm carb with auto choke

7.0-7.5 gram rollers

Yellow rear torque spring

I should have all the parts installed by the weekend of the 17th, at the latest. They are out of kevlar belts, so I'll wait until next season to replace the clutch, the variator and belt with performance replacements.

Re: 50cc' @11,000 RPM (spousal abuse)

Matt Wilson /

Good luck wayne!

I'm sure you'll be happy with it. And I know how you feel about a loud slow bike. After I minorly seized my puch with a biturbo, it would only go 27mph but it was as loud as a harley.

I felt really dumb driving around on a loud slow moped.

Let me know low it all works out.

Matt

Kymco Mod F.A.Q's: (Roller Question)

Roller Question: Do I need two sets, or am I getting the extra set for fine tuning purposes?

I just called my local Kymco dealer (Roberts Powersports, Gorham, Maine) and he is ordering those parts from you today. I only ordered a single set of the 7.5, assuming the heavier weight would be best. I want to call him back, ASAP, and add those parts to the order..... I totally trust your advice, and if I need to get the 7.0's I want them.

I'll add the variator when I add the Kevlar--- that's cool with me.

Kymco Mod F.A.Q's: (Roller answer)

Hello Wayne,

Been playing with Ernie’s bike this morning and the stock or 7.8 rollers should work fine. If you want to fine tune get the 7.5 rollers also but you might not need them. Only difference is we made the R/S exhaust fit on Ernie’s which is a more powerful exhaust for bottom end. I used the green springs from the Malossi set and it is most sweet. Not to confuse you but the R/S would be better. If I get the time I will try a Next to make sure.

Last but not least please use discretion on the prices as I did quote dealer. I don’t want them po’ed at me.

Better get some from the wife because you will be a monk from this point on !!

Steve

Kymco Mod F.A.Q's: (pipe question)

Thanks Again, Steve. Don't worry about the prices, I'll keep a lid on it, and they're not too expensive either, so a bit of a markup isn't going to kill me. I'm pretty sure they charged me the same price on the Technogas exhaust as was shown on your website.

How many different pipes are available? I have the technogas, and you keep mentioning "Next" and "R/S" but all I saw on the parts page was the technogas.... maybe the techno is the same as the "Next"?? and what does the R/S stand for??

No hurry on the answer, I've ordered all those parts, and if I need to swap out the pipe for more bottom end, I can do that next season, or when I put the bike up for the winter. Any further info you provide, is just so I know more about the bike and what performance options there are out there (like how many different kymco pipes are available...?)

Your advice alone is worth whatever the price markup is....heck, they might not even mark it up. I got a big fat settlement, because some old guy ran me and my moped over last august...so parts prices aren't that big of a deal. My right leg was almost torn off, but it grew back okay enough---! Lots of gory battle scars.

My current plan is to wait for the parts you listed to arrive, have them installed, ride the bike for a month or so, and then report back to you with perfomance details. I think I'll be more than happy, and any future mods will be fairly minor. Adding a different pipe for more bottom end sounds nice.....but I can take care of that later on...

Regarding the wife:

Although she makes fun of me, and gives me a hard time, I think deep down she feels bad that her people-50 is beating up my super-9. I'm a moped and scooter fanatic... I LOVE 50cc engines. She's never had a bike before, and she gets the biggest kick out of leaving my super-9 in the dust. She'll be glad that my bike goes fast.... she knows that'll make me happy!

I won't mention the prices you supplied at all, and Roberts Powersports in Gorham Maine says you guys are awesome.

Kymco Mod F.A.Q's: (pipe answer)

Hello Wayne,

The pipe you have now is the “Next” made by Tecnigas. The R/S is another model they make for the fancy Italian jobs and I felt that was not fair so I had them make one for the Kymco. It is designed for more power and works better with the cylinder kits. That is not to say the Next will not be good just not as good.

There are not a lot of companies that cater to the Kymco product because I feel they are trying to protect their domestic brands. Just a theory of mine. If the same parts were available for the Kymco they would be winning on the tracks also. Unfortunately Kymco does not like what I am doing to their bike because of liability concerns. Fortunately the distributor (STR) fully supports what I am doing so I can shove it to the Italians. They are quite arrogant and look at Asian bikes with scorn. Even Malossi detuned the cylinder you are ordering compared to the same cylinder for a Malaguti.

Spain and Taiwan are the only ones willing to help us so my loyalty is to them.

Gianelli makes a Cobra pipe but for the few pipes I have tried I was not impressed for the price. Arrow is another company but very pricey.

I am still learning new things every day and try to share with the dealers. Roberts is a good customer and listens rather than 1 dealer that puts grease on the clutch shoes rather than buy a clutch or springs. That dealer will be getting the rubber wrench award this year. The shipping delay is due to the fact that things move slow down here on the “Rock”.

Hope this helps and give me a call anytime if you just want to BS. 1-866-296-1625 toll free.

Steve

P.S Regarding the wife:

You will be on a second honeymoon when the bike is finished.

Re: Who's faster now?

My nerw perf pipe ruined my bottom end acceleration, it ruined my upper mid-range acceleration too.

the only time my bike is "Kick Ass" as far as power goes is between 10 and 30mph.

anything outside that range, and it's slow as crap. In traffic, with frequent stops, my wife has been ROASTING me on her stock Kymco, unmodified, entry level "People-50".

Hills, and frequent stops kill the performance on my bike... if you hit the 'powerband' you come up on the car in front too fast....if you drop out of the powerband, you have nothing for acceleration....or torque. The "Super-9" isn't as "super" as I thought. That pipe really messed up my performance.

But...now for the good part. We took a ride to her mom's today. LOTS of long straights, slow sloping hills, and no lights or traffic. As usual... she whipped past me.... I caught up in the "powerband" then, fell behind as she zoomed up to 45ish (max speed).

Slowly, but surely, my bike crept up.... 40.....45......50.....55......speedo buried.... tachometer still climbing slowly.... had to be up over 60.

When she got to her moms, I was parked, and stretching.....

"How fast were you going?"

"Dunno...speedo buries just past 50...."

"you had to be going at least 65...", said the wife..."Mine held steady at 45..."

So, I guess the pipe is good after all. Just not for up and down city hills or steep hills. Even if I'm buried on the speedo, I'll see it drop way down, to 40 is the hill is too steep.... not enough torque (I think) for my fat ass.

Re: Who's faster now?

Matt Wilson /

Wayne,

The idea of roller tuning is to get your scooter to operate all the time in the power range.

That way the engine keeps constant revs (or fairly constant), and the vario increases the gearing.

Once you get everything right your scooter should drive all the time in the power band

But sometimes its pretty hard to get it there

Its pretty cool your bike has a tach. Just curious but in your power band how many revs are you getting?

And how many revs are you getting from 0-10mph?

And how many revs from 30mph on?

I wish my zuma had a tach.

Matt

Re: Who's faster now?

Matt,

I'll do some testing today, and note the tach readings.

I know that at 4000 rpms-4200 rpms I can hold the bike in place with my feet.

at least at "initial" engagement, it's about 4300 before the bike starts moving. I had a nice fish jump right out of my tank last night...died on the floor...I gotta run to the bank and petstore...get some guards to prevent it....maybe replace the fish

I've got the wiring diagrams for the QT.... I'll post them today (yeah yeah....I know I keep saying that) I thought the manual was 25 or 30 pages...it's like 43!! the scanner got pissy with me so I went out riding..

I was up watching the fish at 3 am, wife found him this mornin around 10 am...

It's probably that bastard chicago cat that messed with simon's moped. taking a bus to get my fish because I was talking smack about him in the forum.

parts is parts

Wayne ... I just wanted to tell you... In this process of modifieing ... Do NOT throw away any original parts!

.. do NOT let the dealer keep them either!

These parts are all valuable ... and some time in the future ... you may well think ... hmmm "too bad I don't still have the original part .. if I did I could put it back on and try it and see if thats whats causing my 'prob'.

Keep them ALL ... always

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