DON'T BUY TOMOS!!

Why you shouldn't buy a Tomos:

1) TOMOS COMMITS ODOMETER FRAUD. Word from Scott in Parts & Service at TOMOS USA is that the Slovenian "Pickle Works" where Tomos are made received a bad batch of odometers from Italy. They read kilometers as miles. TOMOS USA says they are aware that TOMOS's remedy for the problem is simply to change the faceplate on the odometers to say "MPH." How many 2001 and 2002 Tomos are affected remains unknown.

2) LACK OF QUALITY CONTROL. When I reported that my Tomos had 2 cycle oil in the gearbox, Scott (again in Parts & Service) said that whenever the Slovenian factory ran out of gearbox oil they put "whatever they had lying around" into the gearboxes.

What's worse is the revelation that there is NO ONE inspecting the bikes from the time they leave Slovenia until the box reaches your dealer, OR SO TOMOS USA says. This allows everybody on this side of the Atlantic to alibi that "they haven't seen the bike" or "I just sell what I'm sent...."

3) CUSTOMER SERVICE AND SATISFACTION. TOMOS USA is aware of complaints about the condition of their bikes after shipment, as well as complaints about the service manuals and the poor translation into English. Yet, nothing is done. It is evidently to their advantage to keep the customer as confused as possible.

Moreover, TOMOS USA will tell you that "we've shipped over 5000 bikes into the US and Canada and this is the first we've heard of (your problem....)" Their concern about a possible or an existing problem is truly touching.

I suppose if I'd have smuggled 500 kgs. of heroin into the US and Canada and was told that someone had OD'd, I would feel justified telling them I've smuggled 500 kgs of heroin in and this is the first complaint I've heard.

4) WARRANTIES. With the "wrong" oil in your gearbox, and the odometer reading kms. as miles, warranties can be voided with ease. Or at least earlier. The latter is a good bet as to the reason why TOMOS has refused to fix the odometer problem.

AND:

TOMOS USA has displayed considerable duplicity in terms of gearbox oil. The recommended Type A, Suffx A oil is virtually impossible to find, so the company's posture is: "that just about any oil will do."

But when it comes to warranty work, "any old oil" is no longer the standard. At minimum it leaves the company an out on any costly repair.

And those who've had the wrong oil in their gearbox know better. Just any old oil WON'T do!

For what it's worth, I'm reporting the odometer situation to my state's Attorney General's Office. I don't imagine that they have an "Moped Odometer Fraud" section but the crap they're pulling ought to be reported to someone.

And I'd like to thank Jeff Bach, EXTREME TOY STORE, St. Louis, MO, for reminding me that unscrupulous dealers somehow usually wind up selling products for unscrupulous

importers of unscrupulous mfg'ers. The whole TOMOS experience has sickened me from top to bottom.

fs

BUY TOMOS!! Lots of 'em!!

Sounds more like a personal vendetta against a company that has, firmly, established itself as a supplier of quality mopeds.

That's the opinion of the Forum, in general, and Army surveys have indicated the Tomos to be the most reliable.

You got a bad egg. Accept it. Even Mercedes makes a lemon now and then.

Go buy a new Avanti, and let your rear end lock up.... then you can rule those out as well.

I had GREAT, GREAT (did I say 'Great'? I meant spectacular) support from the dealer (located in FLORIDA and I'm in Maine). A quality machine, worth every penny of cost and shipping.

You aren't going to influence many people, even with your ranting and slanderous post titles. We (the regular posters here) KNOW the tomos is a solid machine. The Army surveys (which I couldn't locate) support this.

People are always posting about their "Cool new Tomos" or modifying theirs, or building trike monsters, adding huge stereos and surviving major accidents.

I'm not going to mock you, which is my usual S.O.P. because despite coming off a little loony, you are sincere about what you think and feel.

"My opinion on Tomos"

"Why I wouldn't buy Tomos"

those would have been better titles for a post about your opinions and feelings.

I am certain your post will have the opposite effect you intended. You might have 'vented' your frustration with TOMOS, but this thread is sure to fill up with people happy as heck with their machines.

My first Tomos was wonderful, it was destroyed and I bought a second.

Tomos sucks?.... yeah, right... pull the other one. Let's hear it from the Tomos supporters!!

I admit, theres a chance I'm wrong, and this thread could "explode" with hundreds of horrible tales of bad service and dozens victims of Tomos lemons. But, I doubt it. You mention unscrupulous dealers... Few dealers sell "terrible" products, because it does come back on them-- legally, financially or otherwise. Tomos is a good product. Proof being that TONS of VERY reputable dealers sell them. If you wanted to run a quality business, would you sell poorly built products from a slip-shod company? Nope. The fact that QUALITY dealers sell Tomos is an indicator that some people (like the guys who STOCK and ORDER mopeds for dealerships) DO believe that Tomos is quality and won't come back on them, ruining their sales.

I feel bad for your experience, but it's not normal. I doubt many people will agree, and I know slanderous post titles have been removed from the board before. Like I said, you seem sincere, so I doubt your post will have the title altered.

Tomos rocks, and most everyone here knows it. The only complaints seem to be the cheesy plastic body work... that and dropping the engine to get the carb off... other than that-- GREAT MACHINES

-Wayne

Re: BUY TOMOS!! Lots of 'em!!

lol get a puch....no problem with puch..but tomos would be my second choice. lol and i like those cheesy plastic covers on em..

~dave~

I like mine !

I buy mine in APRIL bran new ! When i receive my TARGA LX 200 km after i change the transmission oil. It was red with something white !!??? I put DEXTRON3 inside after, it was the oil the dealer said to put !

A lot of people said TOMOS are bad, but the major of time , the dealer they dont care about your moped !

They make you a very nice smile with a lot of promise to sold a moped and have your money. After, when your moped broke they not interested to work on it! They dont want pass on the warranty! They prefer to have your own money. After they said: ( the company dont want to pay, or the parts are out of order...)

Me i do all my minor reparations. I didn't have major problem ! The head light bulb burn, the relay flasher hit the chain and broke (the dealer give me a other one and took on a new moped).

The latest thing, i command a side stand at my dealer in MAY, now we are JULY 23 and they didn't reeve the parts !!!!

The dealer say it's TOMOS USA !!!! Sometime it's long to receive parts !!!!! OK i live in Montr

Re: I like mine !

How is it odometer fraud? I have seen all kinds of mopeds that have MPH on the speedo, but read the miles in Kilometers....Noone ever said mopeds were the highest quality machines, just he coolest!

Re: DON'T BUY TOMOS!!

InfectedBootSector /

Tomos, from what I have seen, are by far the best mopeds sold in America.

I've seen TONS of people that are happy with their peds.

Sounds like you got a lemon!

Ike's Bikes is a Tomos dealer, and anything that Ike sells, I'll put my name on it to!

Just ask Ree! The older Tomos bikes are especially high quality....

Six one way/Half dozen the other.

Reeperette /

I got total, if you add up all the pieces, like 3 Tomos, currently, and have owned quite a few.

But case in point....

My "Red Bastard" is a DOG, it eats parts, and whenever you fix one thing, something else goes to hell, and is an all-around lemon, always has been...total piece of crap.

My "Blue Rocket", ostensibly the same make, and just about the same model, is a solid heavy-duty performer.

Mopeds are as individual as their owners, as a general rule.

Yes, you got "the shaft" from your dealer, and from your attempts to resolve it at a higher level, it appears you got a two-for-one sale on it....it does happen.

I myself am not overly impressed with the A5(A35) Engines, but they do work, more often than not, even right out of the box.

You think you have a problem ?

Try buying a Kinetic TFR new-in-box, and see what their quality control is like.

Or buy a new Avanti and have a transmission lockup, or seziure from underjetting....

It happens, guy....and I did offer to fix it for you, free of charge, as I recall.

Sure, you're pissed, who wouldn't be, and you've a right to address those complaints to the proper folks, but don't you think it's a bit "out there" at this point ?

Most moped folks get a dog of a ped, new or used, at least once in their time, but even those, mostly you can fix with a little time and effort.

Welcome to the world of mopeds, I guess...

-R

Re: DON'T BUY TOMOS!!

ItsLookingUp /

Frank, Are you being a "hot head?" The aligations you make are really pushing reasonableness. Does "Scott" still work at Tomos USA? My experiance with Tomos Dealers and Tomos USA is nothing like you discribe. I have a 2002 Tomos, the gearbox was filled with ATF transmission oil, the odometer and speedometer correctly (close enough) register MPH, and all emails and calls to Tomos USA have been politely addressed. Are you and "Jeff Bach of EXTREME TOY STORE" accusing a Tomos Dealer of being unscrupulous? You seem like you might be a difficult person to deal with and at times unreasonable. Thanks for the opinion, but I will continue to recommend Tomos as one of the better peds to buy.

Re: DON'T BUY TOMOS!!

basicaly, i still think he is a little child about the matter, when i was 10 i was a cry baby, i would say mommy my tomos moped is a piece of poopoo, but now i would say shit i got a lemon. oh well bad luck. Frank , just shove it, dont be an immature cry baby about it. your crowding up the forum with your bull shit complaining.

Re: DON'T BUY TOMOS!!

david f martin /

I dunno. If I just shelled out a bunch of money for a piece of shit, I'd be pissed, too. Seems like SOMEONE should be trying to make the customer satisfied...

I think you have every right to bitch about it. Maybe someone will take notice and do something about it, one way or another.

david

Re: DON'T BUY TOMOS!!

Jeff Bach /

You guys on this forum figure out a guy real fast. I AM Jeff Bach from Extreme Toy Store. Bob Ryan doesn't even post with his real name!

I won't go into details here as I think that is in poor taste but you all have the general idea of this situation.

We are a NEW Tomos dealer and a very happy with the product and the company. None are perfect but Tomos has been very good to date.

Ride Safe

Jeff Bach

Extreme Toy Store

3217 Lemay Ferry Road

St. Louis, MO 63125

314-892-4000

Re: BUY TOMOS!! Lots of 'em!!

OK Wayne, I'll grant you that Frank may be over reacting a bit about his problems with a new Tomos, but is it necessary for you to attack Avanti to retaliate? I have had my Avanti for well over 1 year and it has not burped yet, no problems with the transmission, the engine or anything else. This is a rock solid piece of machinery, without cheesy plastic parts and with a frame and wheels and tires built to last. Of course there are going to lemons with whatever brand you pick, so I can't see your point. If you disagree with Frank about Tomos, stick to the subject....Ken D

Shakedown.

Reeperette /

Jeff, a little advice from an old hand at Tomos mopeds.

Dealer shakedown is pretty important, since many new purchasers are not familiar with the product and therefore do not perform a proper shakedown on receipt of the product, although I am of the opinion one should.

Anyhow, here's a list of the most-missed things on assembly.

Chain Tension.

Cable attachments and settings.

Wheel bearing tightness and wheel nut tightness.

Idle speed setting.

Plug gap.

Vaccum leak check at intake manifold.

Exhaust attachment to cylinder.

Fluid fill and check.

As long as your guys doublecheck these things after proper assembly, you should have significantly less after-sale hassle.

Of course, no system is perfect, and a dealer cannot really expect 100% every time out of any distributor, but one does what one can.

I've offered to do the repairs for this guy free of charge, but he isn't having any, and so will probably remain unsatisfied.

Can't please everyone all the time, I guess.

-R

Re: Shakedown.

Jeff Bach /

Thanks,

I really appreciate the tips. They will be well heeded.

We do spend quite a bit of time with everything we sell on prep. Our mechanic is trained at MMI and has experience at a Franchise Dealer.

We are definitely capable of missing something though.

Are you in St. Louis? We have offered to fix this moped multiple times as well. If only you knew the half of it.

Thanks Again

Jeff Bach

Extreme Toy Store

3217 Lemay Ferry Road

St. Louis, MO 63125

314-892-4000

Re: DON'T BUY TOMOS!!

HEs right tomos suck so much they are made like shit.. i have a 2001 tomos targa and they are made like shit they cost aprox.. 1,200$ and there made out of plastic and a little medal if u break a plastic blinker they cost 25$ to replace if u crack a front pannel it cost 60$ to replace no one should get them me and my friends all have them and they run but, they are made so bad,, if i knew this i would of bought an older moped because they are made better... well i hope this well help who ever peac,

DEN

Re: Shakedown.

Reeperette /

Nah, I am in Michigan, but I was willing to spare the time and effort for a fellow Tomos owner, but, as we both know, that ain't happenin.

You wanna see somethin neat, Jeff, stay tuned...

I dug up one of the Pryer trike rear ends and mounted it to a Tomos, all custom, and it's not quite finished yet, but I have some pics of it for ya.

My scanner died so I sent em out to a coupla the forum guys to scan for me, and soon as they do, we'll post em up here to the site.

Too bad there's no current manufacturer of these rear end systems, cause there is serious demand for em where I live, everyone who sees my trike seems to want one.

-R

puch

I remember many moons ago when I pulled my Puch fresh out of the box at the shipping hub, put in tranny fluid (which was in the box), mixed the gas (the 2 stroke oil was in the box), used the tool kit to raise up the handle bars, and rode the thing home...

Re: DON'T BUY TOMOS!!

Frank,

I can tell that your head, has been twisted and fed, with worthless foam from the mouth!

Re: BUY TOMOS!! (Avanti)

Ken--

I apologize, having confused the Avanti as being one of the new models that was prone to rear wheels locking up... and people were complaining about quality control.

I think Ree mentioned the bike I must have confused with the avanti. Or maybe not... the regulars will know what model was doing it.

But, I have nothing against the Avanti, other than thinking it was locking up (brand new).

I'm glad you called me on that, because my initial point was basically about not slandering a good bike.

Yours,

Wayne

Re: DON'T BUY TOMOS!!

david f martin /

I just wanted to add to my earlier post...

I wasn't dissing Tomos.

But I do think if you buy a brand new bike, you should not expect major problems from the get-go. I'm with Ree, the dealer should inspect the bike before selling it, and if the bike turns out to be a lemon, the dealer should exchange a new one for it. The dealer can return it or get some credit for it. He may take a small hit, but keeping his customers happy will benefit him in the long run.

If Tomos wants to keep their reputation for making a quality product, they will cooperate with their dealers.

david

Re:wonder if Frank s. will get sued by,

Jeff Bach, EXTREME TOY STORE, St. Louis, MO, for makin him lose his job, of course maybe Jeff is a teenager that knows nothing about mopeds other than what he's heard from others bitching and moaning about them, I personally never have owned a Tomos, I have a piece of crap PUCH, but in all fairness I did buy it that way...I own a SCOOTER the Snail Darter

Re: I like mine !

Well. So somebody got burned. It's understandable that he would be upset, but from the tone of the various posts I would have to ask: Did he approach the dealer requesting that things be fixed or did he attack right off like a maniac?

Old saying: "you catch more flies with honey than vinegar"; translation-a reasonable man gets more cooperation.

As to dealers: I have only good things to say about my dealer (Grants Small Motors in Sydney BC, Canada). In the past year I've put 7700 km (YES, 7700!) on my Targa through all conditions, year round riding with no major problems. Grant gave me full support, even to sending his mechanic (eric) out in a truck to collect me when the tire blew out in the boonies, NO CHARGE for picking me up! I didn't know about the brake recall, he called me up and arranged it, kept me up to date on maintenance and gave great advice. I plan to keep this little item on the road for a long time and am building a trailor for it to tow since i need the cargo capacity, no lack of help from Grant's on that either.

A good shop is more precious than gold, this one is a keeper.

Re: I like mine !

Jeff Bach /

Bill,

I think you got the idea there. Frank, who is actually Bob, brought his Tomos in a few days after he bought is and said it wouldn't shift. My mechanic hopped on and drove it in our parking lot and it shifted fine. Bob (Frank) was running his Tomos up to about 8 mph and then backing off.

We didn't see a need to take it out on the street at that time as we thought we had the problem solved.

Next thing we heard from Bob was that he had stripped out the drain plug and had taken his Tomos apart.

We are still ready and wanting to help Bob but I don't know if that is what he wants. He has also voided warranties by tearing it apart. We have no way of checking if there might have been a problem.

Hoping to Help!

Jeff Bach

Extreme Toy Store

3217 Lemay Ferry Road

St. Louis, MO 63132

314-892-4000

Re: DON'T BUY TOMOS!!

SteelToad /

Why dont you just ask your parents to buy you a different bike ?

> 1) TOMOS COMMITS ODOMETER FRAUD.

How do you know that the problem wasn't just the wording on the face plate to start with. Perhaps you should supply contact information for "Scott" so we can be sure he's not just your imaginary friend

> 2) LACK OF QUALITY CONTROL.

As has been indicated here, the difference between 2 cycle and Trans fluid is minor. Besides who said they had to ship it with anything in it. If I buy a new car, I'm not going to bitch because the tank wasn't filled with the highest grade gas.

> When I reported that my Tomos had 2 cycle oil in the gearbox

Ho hum...

> What's worse is the revelation that there is NO ONE inspecting the bikes from the time they leave Slovenia until the box reaches your dealer.

Inspect it for what ??? Do you think that when your car comes off the barge/train/ship that there is somebody at the dock waiting to check it over. NO, thats why you have a dealer

> 3) CUSTOMER SERVICE AND SATISFACTION. TOMOS USA is aware of complaints about the condition of their bikes after shipment, as well as complaints about the service manuals and the poor translation into English.

Hello ! it's a Slovenian company, they don't have to learn English.

> Moreover, TOMOS USA will tell you that "we've shipped over 5000 bikes into the US and Canada and this is the first we've heard of (your problem....)" Their concern about a possible or an existing problem is truly touching.

Just consider for a moment that this is true. Not that you are the first one to ever receive a bike like this, but of the small percentage of people who did, you are the only one whining about it. How do you know that it was oil and not trans fluid, I trust you are fully aware of all of the brands of trans fluid on the market in Slovenia.

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