Reeds too tight ....really.

Please refer to the recent post on mhata this hole for on 15 sha... I've mentioned that it is a hard start with the cheetachromen pull start. So fornthebsakenof argument let's assume that everything is perfect. ..all good. Ok. So I've found that there are two different "starts " I can achieve. Remember this is the jailing head witout a decomp. I can wail away at this thing and something's after way way multiple pulls it will start basically at wot. ( F the starter circuit basically) OR ...I can pull the plug +/- ether , +/- new or same plug ....and presto perfect start on first pull.. wtf! You might say.

So I've been thinking : as was said to Gaston by his sidekick in beauty and the beast ...that could be a bad idea !! :::THere ain't no oxygen in the computation chamber!! Why?? 2 reasons

1. With my one way valve pedal start on the other 2 hobbits ( yellow ones ) you keep spinning the engine as long as needed to bring in fresh charge , whereas in this particular pull start set up all it does is pull in exhaust gas from the pipe which is oxygen depleted.

2. The reeds are too stiff to open with the pull starter under these conditions so maybe some fuel seeing if you pull the plug , don't squirt in anything , replace same plug and pull...starts.

While one answer is ditch the pull start not so fast comrades !! It's got a pa50 1 crank. Haha on me. Absolutely perfect crank btw that we thought deserved reuse as long as we kept the power down and used the stock variator beautifully notched thanks to Emil from socal who graciously donated it to this build.

Anyway that's what I think is up here. And yes there might actually be a better head for a pull start hobbit reed. It could be a derby with the decomp.

So it's on my do list to take it apart , determine just which pa 502 aftermarket reeds are on it (!case is all pa502 now. ) And find a more flexible I hope fiber reed.

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

♣Slew Foot♣ /

Flood style choke like a Gunter...or Sachs

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

Yea you better loosen your reeds

Just unscrew the reed screws a bit.

Should solve your issue

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

Make sure to use some thread lock on those reed screws. Ha!

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

As for loosening the reeds first I need to take it all apart ... And go from there. Backing off screws sounds pretty much asking to take apart motor to fish out the part that are now been beat into submission.

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

It makes about as much sense as your reeds too tight theory.

You’re likely pig rich on the bottom so your flooding and that’s why it doesn’t start.

The only reason the reeds could be an issue is if they aren’t closing all the way

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

I know it sounds crazy but I'm kinda sure I'm right on this. I know that because I'm not an expert it's impossible for me correct.

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

In your mind I’m sure you’re right

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

We will see. First I'm going to skyline in napa with my ebike. Then maybe take apart hobbit.

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

I think you have tunnel vision.

You convince yourself that something in particular is wrong then focus on that. It’s a very poor way of problem solving. It’s like focusing on debris in the road in front of you then you hit it cuz you were focused on that rather than evasive maneuvers.

There are so many other things that could cause poor pull starting. Hanging up starter shoes or clutch or one way bearing, a short in your plug cap or wire, any resistance to a smooth spin will stop pull starting from happening.

First take off the belt and clutch bell and clutch.

Then pull start.

That’s the way to figure out a problem systematically. Eliminate variables.

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

Jbot .....sorry I'll get back to you... No starter janked spark. No air leaks. Etc etc. I'll get into it and post. .....honestly if I knew how to do a one way bearing on a pa 50 1 crank I would and remove the pull starter. But I don't think it's possible without a machine shop at my disposal. I'll try to figure out which reeds are in there. Treats has a carbon .3 mm mild hobbit reed which if the reeds in there aren't mild I'm gonna try. I thi k I also have an oem set of stock metal.reeds.

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

I agree with the too rich idle jet on the carb. Especially if it will start at WOT. What jet do you have in it? And if the answer is "I dont know" then it would be a really good idea to find out.

Also an airleak cam make it impossible to start and idle properly and will only start when there is enough fuel to compensate for the added air from the leak.

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.


I finally found some time to take a look at the reeds. So there's a light band at the top of these fiber wreaths that's the sunlight coming in from behind it because they extend beyond the gasket and body of the reed. Is it possible that the large read is being held a little bit by the setup and that I should shorten the reeds by filing the end there is anyone have any absolutely good opinions I mean I think I might be able to remove the read from the intake but it seems to be pretty well stuck and you know the enemy of good is better so the question I have is how much do normal reeds usually hang over. Jbot if I can make this reliable I might want to go and meet you on your little meander on the East Bay yes I can take another moped but this should be the one I'd want to really see how it performs and not break.

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

Dirty30 Dillon /

How long have you been at mopeds now? At least a smattering of years.

Your reeds should not overhand like that. High likelihood they are catching on the cases trying to clack open. Either open the holes in the top of the reeds, or trim the ends off.

Also, clean up that reed block. I can see parts where the rubber lip is all goobered up.

If your reeds are stuck closed, it's because you goofed

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

Just loosen them.

It’s the only solution that makes sense

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

Okay so the reeds were able to be opened when I peeled the Reed block off the intake and I could take a screwdriver from above and gently press both both of them and after I filed them they did open easier they seem to be tiny bit easier to open but my test was pushing a thin screwdriver from the top down and seeing how flexible the reeds were and if anything was catching I don't know they seem to be slightly easier to open nevertheless I put the whole thing back together remember I'd never taken the spark plug out when I pull the frame up a few inches using a a-framed ladder above it into straps so then I put it all down after it's all bolted up the only for like things I took off for the intake bulbs torque it down pulled it a bunch of times nada and my friend Jerry was here as a witness I said look I'll pull out the spark plug and then I'll put it back in and then we'll see so I did that started on the first Pull. So basically I think that if I had a decomp on this head where I can get some oxygen in there between attempts instead of just sucking preferentially through the exhaust Port which is clearly what is happening the thing would start I don't even know if a different carburetor would make a difference at this point. I think what's really needed is either be dumb enough to take your spark plug out every time you want to start the damn thing with this pull start or get an appropriate large head that cools it appropriately such as the Derby modified with the decomp not with the welded decomp. And obviously the biggest mistake in this build was not using a PA 50 2 crank just my buddy was positive that that crank was beautiful and it is a really nice PA 51 crank I don't think it had anyware on it at all but now unless someone can instruct me on how to modify the the bearings so that I can use a one-way bearing on a pa50 1 set up I would have to break the whole motor down and rebuild it which really sounds horrible considering it's a beautifully built motor.dillon if you want to make me a derby head proper studs placement for a Hobbit that has a decomp and you've got some time I'll be in New York from the 17th through the 22nd and I can pick it up at your shop and visiting my daughter in weehawken. Once I get this thing started it runs beautifully.


Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

I cannot tell you how horribly off base you are.

It’s astonishing how little you understand of how these things work.

I bet you have a combo of problems, Ill fitting reeds, air leak somewhere, poorly jetted idle circuit or clogged somewhere.

In what world would getting more o2 into a combustion chamber would help with starting?

Your buddy don’t know jack shit.

Pa1 cranks are garbage.

Pa2 cranks are garbage.

Only a modern stuffy style crank is quality and won’t break off when you put some clutch stall onto it with a kit.

What you need to do is a pressure test,

I bet you have crazy air leaks out of your misaligned reeds, out of your seals (did you replace them?)

All this thinking of things you don’t understand is like when ancient civilizations created stories about how things worked in the natural world.

You’re well on track to create the first moped religion where you pray to the wolf god to give you more O2 to pull start this pile.

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

So I'm uploading a few short videos of it running to youtube.

Jbot thanks for the encouragement !

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

Sometimes it easier to just say you have no idea what is wrong and take advice from people with more experience. Don't look at it as a failure or be embarrassed, just look at it as gaining knowledge and getting a fixed moped.

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

Thanks Ryan but it's something else. But that's why I post because this is unusual. All my other bikes esp my two one way bearing hobbites start on the first spin.

Oh and the bike rides at wot cool as a cucumber. It's the pull spark plug and non start becomes start that mystifies me. The moped rule is to not done things when it's not right. My plan is to use one of the 2 mlm 21 phbg twisty intakes on too of the dio reed block secured on top of the existing reed block to bring the carb out to the side so I can reduce the rear shocks back to stock 290 mm from 330mm. I may just go ahead and do that and see if it starts the same better or worse because that's my end point on this build other than adding a silicon rectifier for led which it's had in the past. Now I'm 12 v halogen. But I wanted to solve this weird cold start shit first. And yes I can pull engine and yet again leak test it but in the past it's passed with flying colors.

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

Dylan I think you're right there must be some sort of microscopic air leak that is blatantly obvious now that I've got this pull start and you know that rubber is what 30 years old so maybe I you know I as I play around with it more I'll put a little permatex or something you know I got some stuff that I think add to the ceiling quality of a 30-year-old oh and by the way like I've had that that everything else is really kind of perfect on this as I recall before I I went for these hot or hits because I just couldn't keep the temps down and hot hot weather if you open it up on this the way this bike runs it it runs in the 40s so I wanted it I wanted a solution and I'm almost going to get there real soon because the temps seem to be pretty good when I get it going but that's what I want to just solve this one problem and I think I'll consider some more empiric intake therapy so thanks. I just think that the short pole length of the pull start has unmasked some defect that is likely going to get worse and once I get it ironed out how to get the start correctly even if it requires a new carburetor I would just pick up a phdg stick it on this song on top of the deal Reed so that's easy but I just want to see if I could get this to do it just for the why not is it not working.

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

Marc , Please use this :

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

I pulled over well mountain biking to just add a few things I'm doing the terrible voice over and apologize anyway I couldn't do it otherwise. So I think I'm going to take a look at what Dillon suggested around that intake because perhaps when I leak tested it I did it below the reads I'm not sure as I recall to tell you the truth. it's been a long time. So I'll start there. Or just order a smaller phbg and start from there. I think they are on sale but it's a it's the thing I just

would rather fix before I put further changes. My engine has spoken to me and reassures me that her heart is young and with love and vigor. So I'll nibble at the edges


Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

You write entirely too much with way too little punctuation or formatting for anyone to be able to actually read. Your reeds are way too big, they're getting caught on the cases, you HAVE to cut them down to fit the profile of the reedblock. I don't know if you've accepted that conclusion or not because I don't want to have to read the equivalent of the Epic of Gilgamesh to find out

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

> JBOT Admin Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> All this thinking of things you don’t understand is like when ancient

> civilizations created stories about how things worked in the natural

> world.


> You’re well on track to create the first moped religion where you pray

> to the wolf god to give you more O2 to pull start this pile.

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

I did cut them down but I'll take them out and cut them down some more I promise you I'm going to do that tomorrow and then I'm going to seal up anything that Dylan says it's potential evil from the picture I posted of the reads before I sanded them and so I'll attempt to make it impervious to anything from the outside. But did you listen to the three or four YouTube's I posted before you telling me that you know I have to do all these things I mean it sounds pretty good doesn't it or am I wrong?

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

I feel like your biggest problem with the reeds not opening in that picture is that there seems to a large orange thumb holding them closed. Just clean that thumb off of them and they should open a lot easier.

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.

I've got the bike up on my "lift" and will get to it in the am. Will post pics and seek advice. Thanks for some good advice.

Re: Reeds too tight ....really.


...easy access. I'm gonna put the oem reed on for shit and giggles.

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