Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

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Hi Guys,

I know this is a No-Ped. However, i have an almost complete parts bike gifted to me. Its in a lot of parts and i am currently shopping around for parts for it. However, its a particularly interesting two stroke engine, because its not a premix, but has an internal oil pump to pump oil into the engine. I was wondering if anyone knows if i can bypass this and just premix into the gas tank at the correct ratio? Or does the oil need to go through the pump to lubricate the engine correctly? I have read on the forums doing that on different mopeds, but since this is a No-Ped, I am not sure.

The following is a diagram from the Chilton's Suzuki Repair and Tune-up Guide.

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

You could delete the oil injection but the oil pump directly oils the crank bearings so you run the risk of your crank bearings exploding

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

I thought that the diagram looked like it was redirecting a lot of the oil to many parts of the engine, so I wasn't sure. I wonder if anyone has done this on a K11 / K10 / k15 to get their perspective.

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

wow that's complicated

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Pushrod Fifty /

The right side of the crank has two bearings with a notched spacer between them. The pump feeds those bearings directly through the crankshaft. The early ones didnt have oil inject and the end bearing would starve for oil. I had a premix one and replaced the bearings, and did some chamfering to get more oil into the cavity, that helped but the bearing would run hot. Best to use the injector, especially if you want to run at high speeds.

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Do you mind if i write you directly with a few more questions as they come up. I just started on the rebuild, and i know i will have more questions that come up.

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Pushrod Fifty /

Sure. Here is a link to the service manual. The site has the parts and owners manual also. I have a good cylinder and crank for the oil inject ones if your interested.

http://www.oldjapanesebikes.com/mraxl_GT_Resource/manuals/k10p_service/index.php

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Why delete it the system works well.

Do not disassemble unless you have to. There is one bolt on the Pump that is LEFT hand thread. In the picture you attached it is very close to the "OIL PUMP" written in the drawing.

I have a Suzuki with this pump system. It works perfectly. Yes the pumps adds more oil than you need but it works and does the job. It is also variable feed depending on the throttle so again why delete it.

One thing I have learned is to install a Shut-Off valve between the Oil Tank and Pump. The new oils can bleed through and fill the crankcase. The only time this happens is if the Pump is in that one exact spot to allow it. Kind of like hitting the Lotto. The Valve stops this.

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Well...i am not sure if it still works. I received the bike half torn apart. The oil in the engine is a thick black sludge with some sort of particulate in it. I am thinking the best thing i can do drain the oil out, put in an oil disolver in it, and re-drain it. i will attach a picture in the morning, its too dark to illustrate the state that the engine is currently in.

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Also, do you know how to drain all the oil out of the thing. I haven't gotten a chance to really take a look yet.

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Pushrod Fifty /

Dont drain it out but bleed it through so you dont get air in the shstem. Run premix 24:1 at first until your sure its working.

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Dirty30 Dillon /

Classic Suzuki bullshit. The oil-slinger design caused the death of many of their bikes by shade-tree folks who just deleted the pump.

It's also the reason why I sold the TS100 and TS250 I owned briefly.

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

As promised see the debree in the oil as i kick it over. I will try to see where i can bleed the oil from.

Thanks

https://gph.is/g/4VnqGre

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Pushrod Fifty /

The service manual explains it pretty well.

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Looks like a lot of work head . Good thing you don't like to go out much . ;)

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Pushrod Fifty /

Mine sat for over 30 years, the gas tank emptied into the crankcase. I had to dissolve the varnish out of it, free the piston and crank, do ignition, tires, carb, etc. Fun times, worth staying home for.

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

That's the plan. teach myself how to restore a bike and have a few beers along the way. I will probably start a chain on it up here for the next guy who has no idea what he is doing. Ill let you know.

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Pushrod Fifty /

I would of liked to have the oil inject one. If I blasted down a hill, the bearing would scream at me. I brought two of them from a dealer that had old stock, he had two left. If the crank bearings arent too bad, you can access the crank seals without splitting the case. The Suzuki dealer can get you the seals and most other parts, ebay has gasket kits and pistons, rings, wrist pins.

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Hey Guys. Thanks so much for all your help. SO I FINALLY GOT EVERYTHING De-rusted, cleaned up and ready for re-assemble. I got everything mounted, checked the compression, and its ok (not great but ok). NOW, i am trying to see if i got a spark out of it. Take a look at the attached screenshot of the wiring diagram. So if i am reading this correctly, here are four wires coming out of the engine. Black green yellow and blue. Looking at the wiring diagram it looks like black can go straight to the ignition coil/sparkplug, and blue is for nutural light. Looks like yellow is for headlights, and green is for turn signals. So, is it possible to connect the black to the CDI to see if I can get spark by holding it to the engine/engine head? will that complete the circuit?

Also, regarding the CDI, i bought a used one for my bike, and i noticed something interesting, i cant seem to find the condenser on there. Is that right? The old one i had one clearly, and the new used one doesnt. Looking online, neither to others i see. Just wondering.

Thanks!

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Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Tri-ped Dave O.D.B. /

CDI? These use points. Did you swap out the entire magneto for CDI?

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Sorry, in my rush to post this, i meant, the magneto. the wires coming off the magnegto.

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Pushrod Fifty /

I only had to replace the condenser for an external one that I mounted inside of the frame, and clean the points. Also, I cleaned each electrical contact and added a tad of grease and made sure that they snapped together completely.

I would suggest looking in the parts manual in tne link I posted for the part number of the outer right crank bearing and calling Hollick Suzuki in NY, 585-352-1930 and buying a bearing in case you need it. They had two left as nos and this is a nonstandard bearing specially made for these bikes. The other ones are standard and available at Suzuki dealers.

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

I will take a picture at lunch time, and i have the original one, that is trashed, but there is a condenser on the outside. Then there is the used one i bought for a bike the same year, no condenser on the outside. Also, when i look it up on ebay, no condenser on the outside.

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Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Here is a picture of the old one and the new one. Note the one on the top has a condenser, but the new one does not. Is that correct?

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Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Pushrod Fifty /

Shoumd be fine. Maybee someone added it. The condenser should be hooked to the black wire that runs between the stator and the ignition switch. Make sure the old one on the stator is disconnected.

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Just means that the previous owner wired in an external condenser when the internal one fried. It's an easy way to get the bike running again when the condenser does, as you don't need to pull the flywheel.

No big deal. Any One wire condenser with a mounting/grounding strap can be used....I'm partial to anything from a 70's gm from autozone....but I digress, if you replace the internal condenser you're golden, as I imagine it was left in there..If not, an external condenser can be spliced in to the wire running to the ht coil from the stator. Just like the previous owner had done on your original coil.

Top tip, if you don't replace the internal condenser, you should remove it as they can short eventually and totally kill the spark. But there is no problem with it being external.

Forgive my blabbering I'm 5 beers in.

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Thanks so much. But this is a completely noob question, because i hope to wire it up tonight/tomorrow. So the recommendation is to wire it the following: Magento wire black, to condenser, to ignition coil, to spark plug? So you guys are confident that the Condenser is not internal?

Also, i am having trouble finding the recommended sparkplug, i was thinking of going to the auto zone and picking one that fit the thread and size of the old one. Do you guys forsee any issue with that?

Thanks,

Johnny!

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Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Pushrod Fifty /

I got mine at NAPA. I think its a B7 but best to check the manusl. Dont get one with an R on it. You can remove the chrome cover on the engine left side and look inside of the flywheel to see about the disconnect of the condenser. To remove the flywheel you need a special puller that screws into the flywheel. I have one if you need the spec on it. If you try another method of removing it, it will bend and you could crack your case or bend your crank. (edited)

Re: Suzuki K11 / K10 / K15 - Oil Pump Question

Yeah that diagram is ok, as long as you understand that is also comes from the points. It's not just to the condenser. The condenser can go anywhere, where the ignition coil wire comes out of the stator......where it plugs in to the ht coil(black box with the spark plug wire. Doesn't matter

The coil under the flywheel is energised by the moving magnets. That charge is just dropped to ground when the points are closed, the switch is on so to speak and connected the power just runs in a loop.

But when the points open(switch off) the power has no where to go except the next easyest path,

Thru the ignition wire to the ht coil causing a spark in the plug.

The condenser works like you would think a battery would. But a very fast battery. Fully charged in milliseconds. It just holds a charge.

No condenser is like letting a faucet go straight down a drain, not much force...butif you fill a pot first and dump it all at once you get alot more water at once.

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