Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

Totally normal JBOT /

At some point after we see large swaths of US territory lost to rising seas and mass casualty heat events I predict 2 strokes will become outlawed and I will lose my mind. I understand it rationally but all the time I’ve spent learning the ins and outs of 2t will be worthless. But electric has progressed so much that I’ll probably just retrofit my 2t mopeds and be sad

If I was just starting out with motorized toys these days I’d def start with electric. I really think that’s why there’s so few vintage moped people riders. Why would an inexperienced rider/builder buy oily stanky poisony unreliable bikes? but I still love them and will ride them until I cannot anymore

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

I just rebuilt a stock V1 kickstart.

Busted ass, seized V1 from treats: $100

Seals: $30

Piston: $40

Crank: $100

Crank bearings: $30

Points and condenser: $25

Gaskets (handmade): $5

Bolts : $5

Roller bearing: $8

Clutch: $80

Oil : $5

Wires, heat shrink, misc: $20

So, approximately $450 total, for a totally refurbished engine.

So when people think my mopeds are too expensive, they can suck it.

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

> Totally normal JBOT wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> At some point after we see large swaths of US territory lost to rising

> seas and mass casualty heat events I predict 2 strokes will become

> outlawed and I will lose my mind. I understand it rationally but all the

> time I’ve spent learning the ins and outs of 2t will be worthless. But

> electric has progressed so much that I’ll probably just retrofit my 2t

> mopeds and be sad

>

> If I was just starting out with motorized toys these days I’d def start

> with electric. I really think that’s why there’s so few vintage moped

> people riders. Why would an inexperienced rider/builder buy oily stanky

> poisony unreliable bikes? but I still love them and will ride them

> until I cannot anymore

^Fortunately, I don't think there are enough 2 stroke bikes out there to justify the cost of a law banning them, and if they do I will ride them anyway. They are after lawn equipment first, no more gas mowers/trimmers etc sold to commercial landscapers in Cal after 2024 or something. Soon home owners etc...cause almost every homeowner has a mower, while hardly anyone by pop numbers owns and uses a moped on the regular.

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

Yeah I think we the community have also added to the value of mopeds by putting out lots of good info and sustaining a parts supply that helps you achieve a reliable 40 mph bike, get tires for it, shit like that, make it something you can actually enjoy and use.

When I first got into mopeds they were pretty much useless, if a Moby had a bad petcock before Chad Burke started bringing them in from France, it was scrap metal. At least puch you could shove a hose over the nipple, haha. Even 415 chain was hard to find.

Also let's not forget we have all parted/crashed/chopped and generally destroyed a LOT of mopeds in the last 20 years. I've wrecked my fair share for sure, but I've seen some crews throw away piles of frames at a crack.

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

Bruce Zapper /

Why is it wrong or not? If someone rescues a non-running moped and puts blood sweat and tears in it, to bring it back to life! Actually makes money selling it to a person that doesn't even know what a wrench is! He just wants a vintage moped that he can ride and pays top dollar he is grinning from ear to ear and the seller is happy! Why does this seems wrong on to MOPED ARMY?

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

> Bruce Zapper wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Why is it wrong or not? If someone rescues a non-running moped and puts

> blood sweat and tears in it, to bring it back to life! Actually makes

> money selling it to a person that doesn't even know what a wrench is! He

> just wants a vintage moped that he can ride and pays top dollar he is

> grinning from ear to ear and the seller is happy! Why does this seems

> wrong on to MOPED ARMY?

"Wrong" is an individual value judgement. Another cool person involved in our hobby makes me a hell of a lot happier than a few extra hundred bucks in my pocket does. YMMV.

Many of us work hard to keep this hobby accessible and affordable, and those that want to charge thousands of dollars for bikes they picked up for a hundred and did almost nothing to it directly undermine that. (edited)

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

There are some people doing nice restos that totally deserve to be getting ~2k when they are done. Inflation adjusted, they almost cost that much new, so it's reasonable to me that a better than new resto of something you can't ever buy new again and it's turn key, commands that price.

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

If the buyer and seller are both happy , price is irrelevant .

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

> P D wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> If the buyer and seller are both happy , price is irrelevant .

^ this, mopeds are possessions, not a "cause".

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

> Stephen Keller wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > P D wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > If the buyer and seller are both happy , price is irrelevant .

>

> ^ this, mopeds are possessions, not a "cause".

Missionary Mopeds is 100% a thing what are you talking about 😂

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

> Stephen Keller wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > P D wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > If the buyer and seller are both happy , price is irrelevant .

>

> ^ this, mopeds are possessions, not a "cause".

To you, perhaps. However, this site exists because of the *community* that we have made around mopeds.

And that community is worth fighting for.

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

So I'm new to this hobby, finally hit a point in my life financially I feel comfortable spending money on myself for something I've wanted for years. The biggest problem I've encountered are flippers, these are the people who get the ped for 200 bucks brag about it... spend an hour getting it to run then toss it back up for 1000. I've been extremely lucky to find someone in Orlando on this forum who not only took me under his wing and is teaching me but also was willing to sell me a bike for a fair not super inflated price.

Inflation has some to do with it, but mostly greed is the main driving factor. And I had tried to buy several mopeds before meeting Gen Xer on the forums here who did not try to bullshit me, just told me how it was and did not try to upsell me on some clean up service or tell me he had 8 other people who wanted it and now it's up 300 from the list price.

Other awesome people like Rebel Moby and Briansolex have also been great to a newbie like myself and are still out there doing right by people helping them and building this community. But I honestly felt pretty annoyed early on till I found some people who still are in this hobby for the love of it not to get make 800 bucks off someone who does not know better like the moped Steve guy in Tampa everyone warned me about (Thank you all btw)

With all that said I have really enjoyed myself and found the investment if you can find the right seller who's not trying to rip you off a ton of fun! (edited)

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

I don't see any problem with buying a moped for $200 and making it run, then flipping it for much more.

I mean, that's how things work in the motorcycle and car world, and everywhere else.

It was broken and useless, now it's fixed and functional.

Mechanics get paid for their work. Painters get paid. Detailers get paid. Etc.

In my experience, most people selling a "junk" moped don't have the skills, or the time, or desire to fix some piece of crap abandoned moped. It's not taking advantage of anyone if you're buying someone's broken crap and bringing it back to life.

Everyone loves a good score. We brag about it. If you find a puch maxi for cheap, you post up here, all excited about how little you paid for it. And if you sell it for much more, bonus for you.

I'm not talking about shady sellers and scammers. I'm talking about people who put the work in to get a bike running again.

If I buy a bike for 100 and spend a week busting the piston loose, I'm not going to sell it for $150, because I paid $50 for a new piston. I'm gonna sell it for what a running bike is worth.

With the cost of parts and everything else going up, mopeds will get more expensive. One day we'll probably get to the extremes that Honda CT's and monkey bikes are at now. They used to be almost free, now even junk ones are selling for crazy prices.

There's really no use complaining about it. Especially if you're the guy with 20 mopeds, and you're mad because you can't add to your horde because someone won't sell you their bikes for 1987 prices.

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

^ Agreed.

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

And that's why the motorcycle and car world are such awful communities full of shitheads who just want to make a buck.

We've built something different here. This is one of the few places where someone can get into a cool motorized hobby for very little money, and be supported by genuine folks that just want more cool people to ride and wrench with.

If you choose you'd rather milk people for profits that makes you a shitty person in my book, but hey, it's your life.

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

Totally normal JBOT /

END MOPED CAPITALISM NAOW

DISTRIBUTE MOPEDS EQUALLY THROUGHOUT THE LAND AND SEIZE THE MEANS OF MOPED PRODUCTION FROM THE BOURGEOIS

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

Brian,

Were you calling Baird out with that comment? The guy who is building a free custom moped from parts donated by this community.

I agree with the flippers suck thing. Getting a piece of junk for nothing, rubbing it down with neverdull and getting it to fire up then selling as high as possible sucks.

If I was doing custom work and restorations, I would feel entitled to create a parts and labor invoice to base my selling price off of. If it was for a friend, they’d get the friend rates.

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

> Papa _ wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Brian,

>

> Were you calling Baird out with that comment? The guy who is building a

> free custom moped from parts donated by this community.

I was responding to what he, and others, wrote. I didn't know he was doing the community build thing; that sounds cool but I haven't been following that particular thread. 🤷‍♂️

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

> baird co wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I don't see any problem with buying a moped for $200 and making it run,

> then flipping it for much more.

>

> I mean, that's how things work in the motorcycle and car world, and

> everywhere else.

>

> It was broken and useless, now it's fixed and functional.

>

> Mechanics get paid for their work. Painters get paid. Detailers get

> paid. Etc.

>

> In my experience, most people selling a "junk" moped don't have the

> skills, or the time, or desire to fix some piece of crap abandoned

> moped. It's not taking advantage of anyone if you're buying someone's

> broken crap and bringing it back to life.

>

> Everyone loves a good score. We brag about it. If you find a puch maxi

> for cheap, you post up here, all excited about how little you paid for

> it. And if you sell it for much more, bonus for you.

>

> I'm not talking about shady sellers and scammers. I'm talking about

> people who put the work in to get a bike running again.

>

> If I buy a bike for 100 and spend a week busting the piston loose, I'm

> not going to sell it for $150, because I paid $50 for a new piston. I'm

> gonna sell it for what a running bike is worth.

>

> With the cost of parts and everything else going up, mopeds will get

> more expensive. One day we'll probably get to the extremes that Honda

> CT's and monkey bikes are at now. They used to be almost free, now even

> junk ones are selling for crazy prices.

>

> There's really no use complaining about it. Especially if you're the guy

> with 20 mopeds, and you're mad because you can't add to your horde

> because someone won't sell you their bikes for 1987 prices.

Yeah I totally get that, and don't expect anyone to work for free. But what I've seen is an hour or two later after it was posted on Craigslist and sold it's back up as running for 1,300 lol. Most the people I've meet here have been really cool. It seems most the price gouging happens outside of moped army cause people who even try to sell something for money here get attacked lol.

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

Got it. I wasn’t trying to come off confrontational. Just wanted to make sure you knew that he gives back to the community in various ways.

We all have to finance this hobby somehow. So long as it’s honest, nobody should be judging how.

That other gen topic thread with the $20 Magnum for example. I wouldn’t sell it personally, but if I had that kind of deal and wanted to turn around and sell it for a profit, there’s nothing wrong with it.

I think all the hate and damnation should follow shysters that pic up cheap broken stuff, fluff and buff it to kinda look okay and pass that trash on at full price.

I have only bought mopeds and moped parts from the well reputed parts stores and people on this forum. If I, or a friend, were looking at some $1500 ad for a moped, I would be very skeptical.

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

I really think we're close to being on the same page here. I don't care if someone charges more for a fast build or a rare bike; I'm mostly talking about common stock mopeds. Around here there are several flippers that buy these bikes for $100 and resell the next day for over $1000, after hardly doing anything at all to them, and I think THAT is terrible. Similarly, I totally get that a bike that's $100 here could be $1000 in NYC or LA, especially if it has legal paperwork.

I personally wouldn't resell a $20 magnum for profit; I'd get a lot more joy out of giving it to a cool person that really wants a magnum. I point people at good deals all the time, and have picked up cheap bikes for others on several occasions and sold them at or below my cost. I could certainly make money charging them more than I paid, but that would make me feel like a piece of shit. YMMV.

I feel like this is very similar to helping people for free, which most of us do to varying degrees. I've given people free parts to get them on the road, and spent countless hours helping them troubleshoot their bikes. I'm sure most folks here are the same. This sort of community building is super important to me, and is all but absent in groups like motorcycle and car culture.

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

I went on a kick watching Bonneville documentaries a while back. The culture you speak of seems to be the standard there.

I also feel like mopeds should be dealt different among friends than strangers. Maybe if there weren’t so many flipper types out there, it would be easier?

Like, said $20 magnum. I wouldn’t charge a friend for that. So long as they fix and rode it. I’d like to pass it along to anyone at the cost it came to me, but I don’t want to play the fool either. Why sell it to a stranger for what I have in it to just see them make a profit by selling it?

I once gave a motorcycle to a friend, who gave it to his friend, and that guy sold it for $500. I could have done that.

Sometimes I can afford to be the guy that takes a loss. But more often than not, I need to break even.

If Im digging potatoes and find a gold nugget, I won’t sell it for potato prices.

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

Bingo!

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

Dirty30 Dillon /

There is a large difference between being a flipper and refurbisher, but often times people who do the latter will be accused of being the former, and people who do the former consider themselves the latter.

I have both worked at brick and mortar moped shop(s), and ran my own side business restoring and reselling bikes.

I have never flipped a bike. But I have bought bikes cheap, spent a lot of time, energy, and capital in making it safe and reliable, and sold it for a much-increased price.

On a more bitter note, there have been a handful of times where I've sold something at a steal to someone who feigned interest in it, but then turned around and flipped it immediately for a 5-6x profit. It stings more to have your goodwill tossed in the trash than it does to miss out on some money or a bike.

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

Several years ago, a kid showed up at my house with a Tomos that wasn’t running. He told me it was his dads bike back in the day and wanted to use it down the shore. I spent about two hours working on it and about $20 in parts and didn’t charge him a penny. The very next day, it was posted on CL for $600. Not only was this jerk a flipper, but also an ungrateful little shit. (edited)

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

daan SJAARLOOS /

I always find this flipper thing kinda strange. In this day and age it is so easy to see what the general worth of something is by spending a few minutes on the internet..So there shouldnt be a lot of 'bought for a hundred sold for a thousand' kinda deals out there right? I don't see them very often and when I do the seller usually gets close to the actual value because people start a bidding war over an item within minutes. So how can somebody make a living flipping mopeds/parts? I wouldn't know how even if I wanted actually but maybe it's different here then in the US.

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

🇮🇹💦 Of the Loin /

The USA has a much larger population living in the zone we like to call "post apocalyptic scavenger" than Europe does.

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

Bruce Zapper /

> Moped Lar wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Several years ago, a kid showed up at my house with a Tomos that wasn’t

> running. He told me it was his dads bike back in the day and wanted to

> use it down the shore. I spent about two hours working on it and about

> $20 in parts and didn’t charge him a penny. The very next day, it was

> posted on CL for $600. Not only was this jerk a flipper, but also an

> ungrateful little shit.

The first moped I sold was a lesson learned, I sold it for$500 to a guy who swore he had one just like it when he was in high school and is giving it to his son! 2 weeks later I see it on craigslist for $900! That is bad enough but 2 weeks after he sold it the boy who bought it called me and said that he just bought a moped that the seller told him if he has any problems to call me because I was the mechanic that worked on it and gave him my number.

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

Whoa….what a shit bag.

Re: Has our hobby become too expensive?

Those are some rough stories.

Besides getting burned on being generous, I think the topic of too expensive can be wrapped up like this for me:

I can still buy and fix a moped for way less than I can get into any other type of powered transport. So, it isn’t too expensive for me yet.

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