PHBG 19.5 clone haters

So I bought this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dellorto-Style-PHBG19-5mm-PHBG-19-Clamp-Carb-Carburetor-Carby-for-Moped-Scooter/163968837591?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

After examination and measuring:

Slide = 30

Needle = W7

Atomizer = 264 AU

Idle Jet = 50

Start jet =60

Main jet 80 something...

I've got this on a V1 Polini/MLM Peoples pipe and a 19mm intake. Currently with a 78 jet and a 45 idle jet. Definitely 4 stroked at 80+ main. Seems to run pretty well and stays below 350 degrees unless I'm WOT for extended periods.

I'm going to eventually change the gearing from 10/34 as its faster than I need.

I'm very satisfied with this carb. The only "adjustment" was to sand the float bowel flat and make a new gasket. Probably didn't need to drop the idle jet to 45 but it seems less likely to load up at idle.

For $26 I didn't mind the extra detective work and fiddling. Maybe I got lucky

Andy? I know you'll weigh in on this...

Re: PHBG 19.5 clone haters

I got one also. I put in a higher main jet also maybe 85. I dont remember. My bike runs now but I am still waiting for this quarantine thing to be over for someone to help fine tune it. I still gotta buy a trail tech guage. Its a lot easier working on 1 jet instead of 3 but i cant necessarily say the clone is bad, I could probably fine tune the bike myself but I have no idea of the correct thread size of the start main and idle jets and i have no idea if im still running lean or not. (i know i can check the plugs)

Re: PHBG 19.5 clone haters

Probably Fred /

> Frank Bailey Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> So I bought this:

>

> https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dellorto-Style-PHBG19-5mm-PHBG-19-Clamp-Carb-Carburetor-Carby-for-Moped-Scooter/163968837591?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

>

> After examination and measuring:

>

> Slide = 30

>

> Needle = W7

>

> Atomizer = 264 AU

>

> Idle Jet = 50

>

> Start jet =60

>

> Main jet 80 something...

>

> I've got this on a V1 Polini/MLM Peoples pipe and a 19mm intake.

> Currently with a 78 jet and a 45 idle jet. Definitely 4 stroked at 80+

> main. Seems to run pretty well and stays below 350 degrees unless I'm

> WOT for extended periods.

>

You have to tune so you could stay WOT basically forever because how could you back off if some truck is on your ass just because you’re overheating etc.

Someone behind you won’t know you just backed down/slow down unless you put on your brake light and your brake light needs to be nice and bright too Just some little red LED stuck to the seat because you removed your fender,

You have to tune for sustaining temperatures not well I got to back off or I can’t go up this hill, need to blast and put on the choke whatever.

I rode with people who had untuned, poorly lit or no brake light dangerous bikes you don’t realize the danger you are causing to yourself and other people,

Re: PHBG 19.5 clone haters

The tuning for wide open throttle statement is only partially correct. I rode a scooter last year that redlines at 30 but is able to go 40 mph. As long as you know where your bike redlines and you stay below redline you are fine. I guess it could be possible though that Frank could upjet.

Re: PHBG 19.5 clone haters

> Frank Bailey Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> So I bought this:

>

> Andy? I know you'll weigh in on this...

You know I have too! Yes some of the clones work, MOST are crap, but some work, and yes you can save some cash, BUT my real argument against them?

It’s supporting china crap at the expense of real manufacturers and sellers, this is how we lose quality in real products, if you don’t support them they’ll go away. Same goes for the sellers, do you want DOS or Treats to get the money and use it to keep in business/use the funds to invest in cool new products!? Or would you rather some china seller who subsists on child labor to profit? Support the companies and businesses that keep us riding, not the cloners

Re: PHBG 19.5 clone haters

I bought the 17.5mm clone. Put in the 2T bushing and atomizer. Ordered some needles and jets.

As it comes (4 stroke) it is way too rich at idle and on the needle.

Do what the forums and reviews say and it is a perfectly good carb.

Only possible gripe I may have is that the plastic float bowl is kinda flimsy. It’s hard to keep a good seal and it seeps fuel. I could see it getting worse over time from exposure to fuel and leaking more.

Otherwise, for the price, it was hard to beat.

Re: PHBG 19.5 clone haters

So yesterday I had the carb off to fiddle with the jetting and the damn thing wouldn't start. F@#king clones! But it was actually no spark as the condenser had failed. The quality of the replacement condensers are spotty. I just had to change one in my Florida Safari. It was new for the rebuild.

I previously had to change the jetting after I discovered the original coil was weak on this. I'll bounce the main back up till it four strokes again and then drop it back. Yes, sustained WOT would be fun but on local roads 40 or so is plenty, not 50+.

Andy, I now understand your dislike. I have bought more SHA clones from Treatland so I am for the most part supporting them and the others. I wish their quality of condensers was better though...

Ken, I appreciate your concerns. When I backed off it was down to 40 or so and the temps recovered quickly. I was already exceeding the speed limit. No vehicles tailgaiting. I also have a bright tail and stop light.

I'm still learning how to tune and know better than to ask for advice on tuning clones here. I was surprised the weak coil and now marginal condenser affected the jetting. Maybe these numbers will help others.

Thanks all.

Re: PHBG 19.5 clone haters

You can ask about tuning clone. No hate for the work.

People try to talk you out of buying them because once you swap all the parts out that make them work right, you have an expensive carb that still isn’t as quality as the original.

Re: PHBG 19.5 clone haters

I hear ya Andy, but I also think it's kinda bullshit that dellorto is still selling the same shitty carb after 50+ years with the wrong tuning parts in it for a hundred bucks. I buy genuine mikunis but dropping a hundred plus bucks on a phbg, then having to spend another 20 or more to get it to work right, and the quality is still crap.

I have been buying the same 19 phbg spigot KTM/cobra carb from a China seller on AliExpress, comes with all the right tuning parts, quality is as good as og, and it's like 20 bucks.

To be honest, I buy most of my carbs used, they don't really wear out and you can get them for 50 or 60 bucks with already most of the right shit in them. Just bought a polini CP, now that's a nice carb, better design, great quality, quick change jets, etc... That seems like it's actually worth buying. In my work, if you don't innovate you get cloned by China and you're out of business.

Re: PHBG 19.5 clone haters

I got a blkblk 21mm "racing edition" that i love. Its been on everything from my minarelli to my vp's scooter. I use the polini jets bc i trust their machinist to drill the correct size holes but yeah. Never had a problem at all with it.i cant see spending the extra money for a real dellorto

Re: PHBG 19.5 clone haters

The included jets in clones are crap, but you gotta change em anyway. Put them side by side with a polini jet and even with the naked eye you can see the taper is different(which effects flow and atomization) and if measured with a wire gauge they are never exactly the same size as a same numbered "real" jet. I bet they use standard micro drill bits since the size is always 1/2-1 full jet off when I measure. Since PHBG19 is the stock carb for the popular KTM 50SX they can be found very cheap since its used so much, making it a great value.

Just like any clone inspect it first for burrs in the passages/machining issues (it is a Chinese clone after all) then throw in some polini jets and swap the needle if you got a wonky one and you're good to go. Its not as finicky with the needle choice as an OKO is since it uses a slide cutaway.

Plenty of carb for 60+ mph - my A35 BMX build did 63 with one with a 45mm Alukit and supporting mods.

Re: PHBG 19.5 clone haters

This is the right thread at the right time for me. I'm aboot to start on a new engine build and have been looking at the PHBG 19.5 clone. The bing clones are OK but this one I think is not for me. I'll spend the $99.99 for the real deal unless it gets real high marks and I don't see that happening today.

Re: PHBG 19.5 clone haters

> Graham Motzing Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I hear ya Andy, but I also think it's kinda bullshit that dellorto is

> still selling the same shitty carb after 50+ years with the wrong tuning

> parts in it for a hundred bucks. I buy genuine mikunis but dropping a

> hundred plus bucks on a phbg, then having to spend another 20 or more to

> get it to work right, and the quality is still crap.

>

That is a more then fair counter argument, I too have mostly switched from PHBG's to Polini CP carbs, I recently bought the 103 PHBG full set up, they switched the thread on caps from metal to plastic, it barely touched my frame on a bump and broke into a ton of pieces, I had to steal one off an old bike, then order a 20$ replacement. So I guess we both have pro's to our views, I guess the real moral of the story is buy a CP

Re: PHBG 19.5 clone haters

Dirty30 Dillon /

Polini's new CP's and PWK carbs are baller

Re: PHBG 19.5 clone haters

The necessary up jet after correcting the marginal coil, then condenser is killing me. I'll get it. Those Polini CP carbs look like they're worth it. at least I can use my SHA jets for now...

Re: PHBG 19.5 clone haters

Success! After chasing a number of ignition gremlins it's happy. Coil, condenser and a bad solder joint. Might be still slightly rich on an 82 main. Dropped to a 10 tooth front and just pounded it on a long run finishing with a steep hill. Max temp was 340°, 300° or so at low to mid 40's. As they say, I learned a lot...

Re: PHBG 19.5 clone haters

Nice!

I got another clone 19 on its way by slow boat. This will be my 4th one, I'll let you know if it's 4/4!

The atomizer and needle on the one I buy isn't marked, I found a au272 and w9 that I bought (planning to swap into the clone) that I never used so if I get time I'll measure and take some pics to see if it's close or what.

Either way, it works great for me. This one is going on a pw50.

Re: PHBG 19.5 clone haters

Good luck with that one Graham. I measured my internals using pin drills and torch tip cleaners then measuring with a digital caliper. It gives a very good ballpark. For the atomizer I inserted a small steel pick then measured where it fit. Sometimes forcing a round toothpick into an unknown jet then measure, works too. Also experimenting with sewing needles. The needle was easy to measure and verify as W7.

I'm still deciding if all this is even worth it as mid 40's on stock or slightly larger SHA, Bing or their clones is fast enough for me. I'll leave the real speed to those with more expertise than I.

Your write up on drilling SHA carbs started be down this path. Thanks for that.

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