Please help me get my ride back on the road

Hi, I have been having some issues getting my ped back on the road.

The bike won’t start. I cleaned the points and checked the points gap; all good. The points are opening at 23• BTDC. The condenser, when isolated from the circuit reads .249 micro-farad from the case to the lead wire. Checked the spark plug gap and cleaned it too. The plug gives a spark when it is rested on the cylinder head. I noticed that the spark wasn’t as big and blue as I’ve seen it before so I checked the output of the primary ignition coil and only got 4 vac out of it. The lighting coil reads a full 6 vac. So, I followed the red wire of the wiring harness and found a short in it. The red wire was chaffed and had grounding to the frame. I’m not sure if this could have over heated the coil and caused an internal short in the coil. I don’t know. I have tried to source a new primary ignition coil for the CEV 6832 magneto without any luck so far. The lights, and blinkers work, lock switch and engine cutoff work fine, and the battery is charged. It just has not decided to startup.

The bike is setup with a Polini 80cc cylinder kit on a Minarelli V1, a BRN 47mm custom cut cylinder head (super street), a Dell’Orto 16:16 carburetor mounted left, and an EV Racing Equipment exhaust pipe. It’s basically set up like an Argentinian street racer; fast and load. But right now it’s not doing either.

That’s about it. Please help. Thank you in advance.

Cheers

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

Dirty30 Dillon /

If you're hung up on the condensor values, despite them being in spec, I would just replace it with an external (if it hasn't been already).

Otherwise, contact JP @ SecondStrokeNYC. They're under completely new management and in a much more centralized location in BedStuy

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

Cool, I’ll try second stroke again. I had a bad experience with them a few years back so I like the “new management “ scenario.

But, do you think it could be a burned out ignition coil in the magneto?

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

If you replaced the frayed wire I doubt it is anything electrical. The spark color may indicate some weakness, but I doubt you would see much affect when just starting the bike. It would more likely affect the top end when you really need the strong consistent spark to keep up the higher rpms.

My bet is that it is something more fuel/carb related. Have you checked the fuel? Has the bike run with this whole setup before? Anything new added or changed since it last ran?

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

I think your points are opening too soon

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

Yes, the bike ran as built now. The kit is well broken in. Putted around for a long time before ripping the throttle wide open. Almost 500 miles. It had tons of miles and the Sachs too. It always went fast. After the kit got installed it got broken in real nice, rebuilt motor and a well ported Polini kit on top. It did suffer from this infuriating intermittent problem where it would cut out while revved or not start again after it was parked. Not fun, felt like you were hitting the brakes when it cut out while going fast and accelerating. I figure the intermittent problem was due to the frayed red magneto wire touching ground on the frame. It was hidden in a place that was hard to find. Fixed now I think.

Most of the time the bike ran well and would start right up with little effort. Turn throttle, set choke, push it off the kickstand, pop starter and away it would go. Never had great acceleration from stopped to mid speed though; Tolerable but not great. It does, (did), have scary top end speed and acceleration.

I’m selling the bike now and want to get it working right before I do. For now I just want it to run. I wanted to sell it in a winterized state before I got reattached to it by working on it. Everybody that inquired wanted to ride it over the bridge to Brooklyn.

I have a Treats order coming but could not find a coil for the ignition side of the magneto. I ordered a rebuild kit for the carb, a B7HS plug (always ran a B6HS but Treats was out), and a new headlight (I jarred the filament lose and wrecked it when chasing wires in the headlight bucket), plus a rear blinker bulb. Imma get it working just right, add an extra 100 or so bucks to what I was asking and find the perfect buyer. I already have the kid in mind; he’s totally interested (he might not be so into the price increase) but he wants a top tank that goes fast.

I’ll rebuild the carb, put in the new plug, give it some mix from a baby bottle and go from there.

Thank you all for all the help and support. Any ideas on what it might be please share. Thanks again.

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

The points are opening around 22 or 23 degrees BTDC (or right where the first line on the flywheel that passes the indicator. )

Where should they open?

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

When you have fuel,spark and air, the culprit is old crank seals a lot of the time. Make sure the seals are good because kits play havoc on old seals. Been there...…...suffered that!

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

Points should open around 17 degrees btdc

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

♣Slew Foot♣ /

If the red was frayed check the wire running beneath the pointset. It would mimic a bad condenser If bared.

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

> ♣Slew Foot♣ Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> If the red was frayed check the wire running beneath the pointset. It

> would mimic a bad condenser If bared.

The short was from a chaffed wire on the wiring harness just after it conecten to the stator's red wire; hidden behind the frame gausette. I was causing the output of the saturo to go straight to ground.

I ordered a 19mm x 1mm flywheel puller 'cause I can't find my old one. going to see if I can figure out what's going on. There is a 3 to ohm resistance between the points with respect to ground.

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

What's the point Gap when they are fully open?

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

Actually I never owned a Sachs so I might be wrong.23 seems a little early.I may be wrong

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

Dirty30 Dillon /

This is a Minarelli V1.

How are you measuring when the points are opening?

Honestly, this all sounds like simple tuning issues. And if (as you stated in another thread) just trying to sell the bike, I would just have someone look at it who knows what they are doing.

If I didn't have a full garage right now, I would offer.

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

Oh I read wrong .I thought it said it was a Sachs

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

.017, I measured a guitar pick with a good verter caliper then used it to check the gap.

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

> Dirty30 Dillon Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> This is a Minarelli V1.

>

> How are you measuring when the points are opening?

>

> Honestly, this all sounds like simple tuning issues. And if (as you

> stated in another thread) just trying to sell the bike, I would just

> have someone look at it who knows what they are doing.

>

> If I didn't have a full garage right now, I would offer.

Where's the fun in knowing everything to what you’re doing? Since it used to kick right over before I winterized it so I'm not so sure it’s a tuning issue. But then I really don't know. I did manage to find a naughty frame ground short that gave me trouble in the past. Fixing that got it sparking while connected normal (not hot–wired) 100% of the time. I feel progress has been made with minimal effort on my part. I know I can get it to run.

I totally needed to sell it ‘cause I had been out of work for months. As soon as I listed it I have been swamped with work and have not had a clear block of time to work on it just a bit here and there. So, you can kinda say it has brought me luck to list it out of need. Been working steady ever since. I would let “some one that knows” look at it but I would have to add that to the selling price or take the hit. People “who know” want a lot of moola and then again where’s the Fun. Everybody on this forum went trough there own learning curve. I owned a 1960 JAWA 175 Thumper in High School did all the work on it myself after my Dad helped me get some chops. I got that running by myself. That was way before Internet, youtube, chatrooms, or forums. Then I restored a running 1979 Honda CG 125 that came with an intermittent electrical short that caused nightmares at times. It was right under the seat so you could get the bike to run perfectly then jump on and it would cutout or cut out after taking the first bump. That Honda was quick and fast, totally café ed out. I sold that a couple of years ago. A 16 year old kid owns it now; changed his whole scene. I got my first moped up and running in less than an hour after saving it from the dump; an 1970’s Puch, that I listed on Moped Army in 2008 or 2009. I can’t remember my old logon so I made a new one to get some help here. I’m not too inept, but yeah, I don’t “know” mopeds. I have enjoyed owning this one. It’s been good to me. Only been to the shop once since I’ve owned it (2014), to get the carburetor cleaned and rebuilt it after I forgot to run it dry before storing it for the winter. I’m just trying to get it ready for the next owner, and caress it a bit while I fix it and say good bye.

I’m not asking for pity here; just some solid advice and helpful suggestions. I appreciate everybodies imput and I have learned a lot. Thank you all for the past and future help.

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

if theres spark , squirt some fresh premix in the plug hole and kick over. if it don't fire suspect compression or a bad air leak.

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

Hepatitis J [OFMC] /

Your electrical sounds fine. In your other thread I think you mentioned taking a good compression reading. It still seems like a fuel flow issue.

Don't fix it and lower your price.

It's not an argentine street racer, it's just another polini'd V1. Cool but not particularly rare or valuable.

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

> Hepatitis J [OFMC] Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Your electrical sounds fine. In your other thread I think you mentioned

> taking a good compression reading. It still seems like a fuel flow

> issue.

>

> Don't fix it and lower your price.

>

> It's not an argentine street racer, it's just another polini'd V1. Cool

> but not particularly rare or valuadle.

I already have a treats order in; it should arrive in a day or two. So the price is going to go up a bit; but not much. Def going to get it riding soon; no doubt. I have 3 people who have expressed serious interest in it. I told them that I’d get back to them once its running right. Of the 3 I have my ideal buyer in mind; a kid from BK that loved the bike. Not the top offer but that is not my focus. I want to find someone to enjoy as I have. Plus I’m learning a lot about 2 stokes; always worked on 4 cycle bikes. My motorcycle, first one I bought new at the dealer in 2007 has never been to the mechanic after its required warranty maintenance was over. It goes decent fast, not too fast. Sounds like a sewing machine though.

No one is saying it's cool or valuble; Or even pretty. Or that it IS an Argentinian street racer. Just said its set up like an Argentinian street racer; loud and fast. Kitted out but left to look like a regular moped so the cops wont hassle you and so you can ride a fast bike without papers. My wife is Argentinian; been doing a Masters in Art History there since 2018. Been living in Buenos Aires. We just got back in May. Her family’s apartment is on Avenida Juan de Garay. There is a big moped culture there. Hearing those load pipes ripping up the avenue late at night reminds me of the overly loud pipe on my bike. Argentinians do design some pretty load pipes. That’s it.

Hey thanks for the advice too.

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

If you're pulling the magneto,go ahead and replace that flyside crank seal. Easy to do.

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

> pat splat Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> if theres spark , squirt some fresh premix in the plug hole and kick

> over. if it don't fire suspect compression or a bad air leak.

Thank you. This sounds like a plan. I’ll do this tomorrow or Friday and get back. Could it be a bad plug? The plug is sparking weakly but does spark. Is there any way to check a plug with an ohm meter? Or, how does one check the HT coil primary and secondary windings? Does anybody know the resistance values of the coils that make a CEV ignition system do its thing? What is the resistance of the stator ignition coil, the HT primary and secondary coil, and spark plugs. Also, should I have replaced the plug cap with a resistive (5k Ohm) cap? It ran fine with the other cap but it got cracked so I replaced it. Ran when I parked it late Fall 2018. Winterized it, covered it with an old ratty cover and a brand new one too and stashed the spare parts box and gas can under the cover, double chained it to the fence in my sisters back yard area. In November 2019 my sister calls and says both locks are cut, bike is uncovered. It had the fork lock engaged. She moved it for me and locked in a safer place. Could a winter of weather have done something to it that wont let it start?

Anyway that’s my saga. Thank you helpful people.

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

> Rick Shaw Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> What's the point Gap when they are fully open?

.017

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

Yes it could be the plug.I would drain the gas .It may have water in the gas.Sounds like you know a thing or two.Yes try a new plug.I always try the easy stuff first in the process of elimination.

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

Try .014 on those points, especially if they are old and somewhat pitted.

Re: Please help me get my ride back on the road

A heart felt thank you to all that helped me to get my bike running again. After sitting for an extended period of time the moved just did not want to be its old reliable self.

I turned out to be a series of issues that are now resolved. A new spark plug was all it took after I tracked down a short to the frame from the red stator ignition coil.

Thanks again.

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