My 'new' motor had been seized ...

Fred /

Jul 04, 2002 12:15PM

... lol ... this is about what you have to expect when you buy someting from an un-knowledgable owner off ebay.

You almost have to expect something to be wrong... and there was...

I would bet $100 that the previous owner bought a nice PA50II .. (that only showed 68 miles on the Odo... then stupidly did NOT mix oil in the gas... because this motor is in beautiful shape otherwise... the top and bottom of the piston are basically spotless .. which means it barely ever ran.

The exhaust side of the piston has had a major seizure and scuffing... I bet they were freshly done .... (or maybe now that I think of it... the ORIGINAL owner seized it 19 years ago?... and thats why it only has 68 miles.. then sold it too the guy who parted it out)

Whatever... I am going to try a quick 'sand the scuffs and and hone the cast iron cylinder'... then see how it runs... (1 ring smeared over too... barely... I was able to save it.. I think).

I found this out because I wanted to try the II cylinder out with its different porting... to see what its like.

... aaah well.. wasn't too surprised to see the seizure... though at first I thought the motor looked mint.

... I might have to finally break down and buy some gen-yoo-wine Honda parts pretty soon.

Anybody ever checked to see if Honda offers oversized pistons and rings for a PA ?

Somehow it sticks in my mind that they offered one oversize... don't remember where I got that.

Re: My 'new' motor had been seized ...

david f martin /

Jul 04, 2002 12:25PM

I don't know about your PA... Honda has one oversize for my bike, and a new piston and rings cost about $50. A new cylinder runs about $150.

Are you opposed to aftermarket parts? Just curious. They're usually cheaper.

david

Re: My 'new' motor had been seized ...

Toehead /

Jul 04, 2002 12:26PM

that sucks.

Re: My 'new' motor had been seized ...

flannelman /

Jul 04, 2002 12:34PM

they make them but you should shop around because all the dealer will give you diffrent prices

pa and a nc use the same rings and i got some for mine 35 bucks

Re: My 'new' motor had been seized ...

david f martin /

Jul 04, 2002 12:35PM

Still sounds like you got a good deal to me, if all the rest of the parts are like new, plus all the other stuff you got.

My daughter lost $800 buying a laptop on Yahoo! Auctions... She sent the money to the seller in Canada, and never got her computer. Now THAT sucks.

david

Re: My 'new' motor had been seized ...

Viet /

Jul 04, 2002 12:39PM

How does an engine become siezed?

-Viet

Re: My 'new' motor had been seized ...

Fred /

Jul 04, 2002 12:40PM

Aftermarket parts are typically lower quality too... and as of right now... I haven't found anybody with oversized 50cc pistons... though.. they have 60 and 70cc cylinder kits which are pretty cheap.

I really want to stick at 50cc for now if I can... I would like to see what I can get out of 50cc displacement.. (without going too radical on the rest of it either).

In my mind... I would like to get what the manufacturers would have gotten out of a 50cc moped WITHOUT the Gov rules regulating them to 30mph and 2hp maximum.

(like a modern 50cc scooter does)

... say... 45 or 50mph top.. with decent acceleration.

So that cruising with cars at 40 is comfortable.

So it won't be radical tuning... and it would still be 50cc.

(I'll live with that rule)

Hell... I'm almost there... if I had a slight downhill.. it would get to 40... and stay there once the road flattened out... (at low RPM too because of that variator 'shift').

... dang... I wanted to ride it today... but my cylinder 'bore and hone' guy isn't home.

no complaints

Fred /

Jul 04, 2002 12:46PM

Oh yeah... I wasn't complaining.... like I said.. you pretty much have to expect stuff to have something wrong.. if you don't ... then its REALLY like Christmas... a thrill.

I WAS thrilled when I first popped the head... and then last night I found the little surprise... and I chuckled at myself... "you THOUGHT it was perfect"... lol ...

Re: You never know...

Jim C. /

Jul 04, 2002 12:48PM

I'm going to see a Cimatti a friend got for $35 last weekend. Odometer shows under 100 miles

He said it didn't turn over with the pedals. Told him try adjusting the cable on the starter clutch, and that got it to turn over. Since then he got it running.

Like I said, I'll see it later today.

Jim

Re: My 'new' motor had been seized ...

flannelman /

Jul 04, 2002 12:49PM

getting to hot or not enough oil

Re: My 'new' motor had been seized ...

david f martin /

Jul 04, 2002 12:51PM

Fred,

I have a friend who bought a '54 VW bus in NM. He lives in GA. He took a spare 1600 engine with him so he could drive it home. The original 1200 in it was still running strong, it got him home, and that's what he's still running.

He's a guru like you, too. I think that's pretty cool.

david

seized

Fred /

Jul 04, 2002 12:51PM

seizure ?

Something is wrong with the motor that makes it get real hot... the aluminum piston grows larger with the heat... till its too tight in the cylinder... then it starts to seize (stop moving)... the piston gets a big 'bruise' on it... with scrapes and scuffing.

Then you get to fix it.

This is why you do a plug chop every once in a while... to see how much heat you are getting.

Re: seized

Viet /

Jul 04, 2002 12:56PM

What is a Plug Chop?

-Viet

I'm having a seizure!

Fred /

Jul 04, 2002 01:17PM

Go read it in 'the guide' ya lazy bastid !

Its only been described here 2000 times !

Viet.... anytime you have a question... try and use the 'search' feature above before you ask ... most of the questions have been answered many many many times.

That one is also in 'Freds guide'.... you do know where that is right ? (you are not a rookie here)... under 'resources-articles' above ...

Re: I'm having a seizure!

Dan /

Jul 04, 2002 01:43PM

Fred

i don't know if they carry what your looking. i got a lot of parts form them.part about 1/3 the price of local honda shops.the parts were for honda 50&70. Very nice people.www.dratv.com. Dan

Re: I'm having a seizure!

Viet /

Jul 04, 2002 01:48PM

Thanks, I didnt know that they had a search button here. Thanks Fred.

-Viet

Honda parts

Fred /

Jul 05, 2002 04:20PM

Thanks Dan... sounds as good as any... I have a very large Honda dealer here locally... but being in the middle of yuppieville... they get away with charging 15% OVER Honda's recommended retail cost... (because the yuppies will pay it.. and don't know any different).

So I was going to ask if anybody had a good discount Honda dealer.

I will try them.

Re: I'm having a seizure!

minutemade /

Jul 05, 2002 05:15PM

my local shop owner has shelfs full of rings of various sizes etc so i imagine if you knew what size he'd be happy to put a set together.....

Re: I'm having a seizure!

Matt Wilson /

Jul 06, 2002 05:08PM

Fred,

After reading through the PA manual that itslooking up posted your PA should have 120-170lbs of compression.

You might want to check yours. The pressure was originally in some metric unit but I converted it.

Matt

breaking in old parts

Fred /

Jul 06, 2002 07:26PM

Thanks... I was going to do that ...

(those are pretty much normal compression numbers... nothing unusual)

The fact is I just got the 'new' cylinder honed and installed a few minutes ago... and rode it to get gas.

Its the new cyl with the seized piston (lightly sanded)... with the rings they had .. (the bottom ring might be about useless for any compression since it was smeared and scuffed pretty good).

The thing is it sounds 'rattlier' than my old cylinder with near 1500 miles on it... even though it only had 68 miles on it.

I am actually debating a 'breakin' period... (despite the seizure)... maybe 50 miles...(since it had so few miles to start with).

Overall performance seems about the same... low end might be a little better... mid and top about the same... (so far)

....... oh well... I am going riding... I missed the little humdiddler the last few days.

MOPED ARMY

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