2wd hybrid

Or maybe it's a tribute? Pedals still work too.

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Re: 2wd hybrid

So, going way back, without detailing it here, I built an electric garelli conversion last year, thread here:

https://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/read.php?1,4228129

I built a box for the controller and made removable mounts to bolt into the existing engine mounts, so it was entirely reversible which is exactly what I did, reversed it back to the gas motor once I had all the parts. So then I had this hub motor and the controller battery box sitting around.

It was super simple to remove the garelli motor mount adapter and remount the box to the floorboard of another bike. We had some rando frames at the shop from roffman so I grabbed this xke and got to work.

None of the bits were there, the bars came off a kids 4 wheeler, shocks and forks are tomos, the rear wheel was from my china bike motored rizatto, the seat from a maxi, pipe was a hacked one and the motor from a trac

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Re: 2wd hybrid

Right now the lights run off a step down from the electric hub

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Re: 2wd hybrid

This was the rizzatto

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And the garelli when it was electric vs gas

Apologies for the multiple posts, just doin it in case I crash out, like lol saves

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Anyhow the trac came in a wierd set of trades, we ditched a flory in trade for a non running but nice ttlx. The kid had kitted and never jetted so it was seized to hell, he bought a spare motor I guess not realizing there are different brands? So we go the trac and a ttlx that just needed a new topend, score.

Rigged up some mounts and on it went.

Re: 2wd hybrid

Anyway to the point I'm sure you're wondering how it is and meh is the best I can describe it. The hub motor is pretty lame, it's a 36v that claimed 1kw but realistically is only maybe 750 peak, meanwhile the battery that claimed 10mah is probably more like 3 or 4. Buy cheap shit and you get cheap shit.

The wheel bolted in easy to the forks, I made a little tab washer to prevent it from spinning in the dropout but it doesn't need it.

The hub motor gives it a lil oomph off the line letting me get away with very tall gearing but otherwise it's one or the other, they dont really complement each other the two motors.

Only real plus so far is it got me home when the petcock clogged, couldn't fix that without draining the tank so I was glad to have an easier backup than pedaling home. (edited)

Re: 2wd hybrid

That's awesome. What's the range on it?

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Tweaker trash /

How is it around turns?

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Range is like 10 miles on electric, it blows. It could go farther maybe but by 10 it's at like half power rich is already weak.

Around corners its same, one wheel is basically driving always so if there were some difference in speed for one wheel vs the other itd just slow down the one.

I guess that's really only a thing for 2wd bikes where the wheels pull from the same drivetrain and are thus mechanically linked to be going the same rpm. Or like cars or 3 wheelers where around corners the outer wheel is traveling a greater distance arc and needs a diff (edited)

Re: 2wd hybrid

AHA! it DOES work!!

In an attempt to be more quantitative I used an app (Speed Logger Free) which is an android app that can export speed to CSV which you can load in excel and plot speed and accel

Doing so, comparing just electric, just engine and combined engine/electric it's CLEAR who's the winner, it does in fact translate to much better acceleration than either alone, with no effect on top speed since maxxed engine is >> the electric.

COOL!

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Overpriced Parts /

That can’t be the Italian concord carcass I had for years and did nothin with it for you built that up in no time.

Pretty damn good work

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A 2wd hybrid moped. This is really tight!

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This is pretty funny to see. Just this year my students were using Lego robotics to try and build the fastest car they could.

They made some nice designs and geared the motors properly, however, as soon as the wheels touched the ground the motors couldn’t even get the cars going.

My students attempted something sort of like your 2wd. They designed a regular motor to start the robot moving, and then have the other heated motors kick in later.

Sorta almost worked, some issues with Lego motor design but cool nonetheless.

Unfortunately we were cut short this year....

Re: 2wd hybrid

Been giving it some more rides, it really does help, if i drop off the electric (left thumb throttle) and keep on the regular gs throttle I feel it slow down. A few more timed runs it's really like double the acceleration. kinda feels like pedaling to get moving - anyway I hit 20 in like 18 seconds on the gas engine alone, and in under 10s with e-assist.

and roff, I've had this "done" since december but I didnt have forks! that was almost the only hold up for the past 3 months haha. I dont know if we're gonna do much with the other maxi frames but I saw the concord xke right away and fell in love. theyre such a gorgeous frame. thanks again and y'all stay well

Re: 2wd hybrid

How’s braking without the front. Can you add a disc brake.?

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I dig this a lot. I have thought about doing this on a Triped microcar for a boost on hills.

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no groms no blasters /

lol does it do regen

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I did add a disk brake to the front, i'll have to update this later.

it has a very limited what you could i guess call "regen" but it's not got any braking power. THat was originally my plan but i got a cheap as shit controller

anyway, basically the lights all run off the battery, and it's set up now so that if the battery is dead the front hub will power the lights. kinda regen, but not a regen braking. I don't think it tries to back charge when the battery is still charged, maybe it does... i wonder. TBH i dont really understand everything i'm doing here - does spinning the hub over its max RPM while still trying to give it power wind up generating charge and slowing me down or compromising the electronics? Maybe!

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So what battery are you using to power the hub motor?

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Please update when you can. I have a trac image, great bike for stock, but even with 2 speed it can’t do hills. I’ve done a 15:15 with mlm pipe no major gains, nothing on the bottom end. Braking on the bike is heavy on the front brake. Been seeing electric bikes with disc brakes so your project looks feasible

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If you put a 15.15 and a pipe and got no gains something's wrong with your bike. My Batavus with an m48 with a kit, pipe and carb hits 50

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Disk was kinda easy, took some work spacing it but basically just gotta clamp it on the disk, and weld the plate to the forks.

Would i recommend this, probably not. Its a buncha work and minor rewards. I dunno if itd be too doable to really just clean up or regear or fix your wngine. But this is more of a curiousity than a valuable endeavor

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Re: 2wd hybrid

how much do you hate that those avids only have 1 moving pad? I really don't understand why bicycle mech disk calipers (except the TRP spyders) are all like that, even those $$$ Paul Klampers.

You should check out the cable-actuated hydraulic guys. I have a set and they work real good compared to those BB7s

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you got some sweeeet bikes tho, this is barely worth like 3 or 400 all together.

it's a real shitty caliper, not even the bb7, cheap clone. but also not a very fast bike and the rear brake works great. before this it had no front brake and still was legit. these're not great but it's pretty well good-enough.

the cable hydraulics sound awesome, easier than the full hydros (and you can easily adjust cable length) but there are pretty capable cable-only ones too. man the avid hydraulics really stop a bike. I dunno about paul klampers.

I wouldnt use this caliper on a mountainbike, but it works here. It was cheap and easy, and theyve got a lot of adjustability in the cup/cone washers on the mounts and stuff. you just get it close, clamp the lever to align it, and then tighten the bolts, it's arguably easier than a real moto caliper just cuz it's got so much slack to adjust.

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🇮🇹💦 Of the Loin /

Ok quick fun facts about electric motors

Every motor is also a generator

The max RPM allowed is when the generated voltage is equal to the voltage being used to drive it (48v = 48v)

If your motor was from a bicycle it may have planetary gears inside which would let the motor freewheel in one direction

Depending on your controller it may actually slow you down

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Tweaker trash /

Yea you need a bigger motor, that hub motor probably is used for more cruising once up to speed with a light weight bike.

You need a bigger kit with a matching battery. Like 2500-3000w

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oh I'm well aware. Without the emotor and a moped front wheel I go just over 30. With the emotor on but not running, it goes just over 30. and with the emotor on and running, the top speed is still just over 30.

I have it setup now to where I can run it as a generator. Right now the battery powers the lights and the hub motor. If I didnt have the battery in, or it was dead, it can switch to run the lights off the hub motor as a generator. I'm sure it technically would be slowing it down, but it's not noticeable. top speed is just over 30 with the hub as generator feeding the lights.

to have a meaningful electric motor definitely needs to be much bigger. I addressed that in the prior thread on the garelli - this was a curiosity proof of concept kinda "do it cuz you can" thing. The biggest takeaways for me were:

* dont buy cheap parts or batteries, they lie profusely about specifications and cheap parts are genuinely crappier, especially batteries where cycle life and power density are directly related to the raw material cost.

* You need at least 1kw running (not peak) to reliably keep up with SLOW stock bikes or a 3kW motor if you wanna get to even a decent piped up stock moped. or like 5-7+ to keep up with kitted bikes. Now you're in easily well over a grand or 2, i did this whole thing for less than 400 just to see what could be done and get familiar with the parts.

I have no delusions here, again - i make funny curiosity projects. It's not a worthwhile e-moped. Compared to not having the hub motor, the only difference is 1) it accelerates better, like pedaling from a stop - but without the effort. and 2) I can drive it home on electric if the gas ran out or (this happened) the petcock clogs completely. was a pretty handy save.

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🇮🇹💦 Of the Loin /

Is it a bicycle hub motor? That makes a difference

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It’s a trac, no idea what’s holding it back, did a mikuni and a gila kit on my morini and it was night and day performance gain. No kits for the trac tho.

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Thanks for the pic. I’m sold on your performance chart as it’s acceleration I need, traffic does not like slow starts, and hills suck in stop and go neighborhoods. Electric is picking up, it’s be cool to see what mopeds look like in another 5 -10 years

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