Re: Sachs 505 c/d Debate

Okay, ive been into 5051/abcd you name it. Yes the D comes with a bit of a longer stroke, usually a bigger header tube and thicker clutch plates. That is their only difference. The D engine is not however guarentied to be better in all instances. For example, i have an engine that just says 505/1 no letter, 47cc. It came stock with a spoked lightened drive gear- a definite performance advantage, while ive never found a lightened drive gear in a D. That engine with the athena 70cc reedless and stock exhaust goes 50. The D's are sweet, but do not discount AB&C

Re: Sachs 505 c/d Debate

I once put E-50 rings on my Sachs. One of the Sachs pistons used 2 rings of the same size and the Puch rings seemed to fit. The thing is one of my rings eventually broke. Was it just a little bit off? Or, was it because it was an ancient used ring?

Re: Sachs 505 c/d Debate

Tomos rigs sometimes also work. A 38mm ring from any other brand will need to be gaped. there are 1.5 and 2mm thick sachs rings, and a few different configurations.

Measure and look, don't order parts blind.

Re: Sachs 505 c/d Debate

Cool guys! Glad to know there is still interest in this post - I thought it was killer. Just want to throw out there that the "A" I have right now does a solid 32-33 and a 27 pull up hills - I'm sold on Sachs. So, I'm not raggin' on A/B/C engines.

I do believe you're right William - I do think it's a C. It's just rather confusing because earlier in this thread, someone said you can't just bolt a square, "D" if you will, head and piston on an A/B bottom end, but it seems that's exactly what the "C" is, unless port timing has changed in the square cylinder for C/D variations.

So, with lower compression, I'll get higher revs? Yes?

Seeing as I have an extra crank laying around, does anyone know where I can get one of those xxx103xxx conrods to press in there just for kicks and giggles?

One other question... are all the cylidners 38mm bore? (forgot to measure that last night too). I feel like a lot of these engines had square cylinders when they were brought over here, seeing as that was standard in Europe and dealers just threw A/B cylinders on there. That would explain the square cylinder pistons (shorter ones, with different thickness rings) in non-square cylinder engines.

15mm Amal

15mm Athena intake

Square port "D" cylinder w/ shorter piston

Larger ID header

Black $40 Jamarcol clamp on chamber

Re: Sachs 505 c/d Debate

Tri-ped Dave O.D.B. /

yes all the same bore. The longer stroke on the D changes it from 47cc to 49cc.

I have 2 D Sachs, a Prima and a G3 and I love them dearly. Goddess Athena will be paying a visit over the winter to at least one, perhaps both.

Re: Sachs 505 c/d Debate

Larry Picarello /

Just picked up a C engined moped from a storage unit. The carb has no needle- normal??

Re: Sachs 505 c/d Debate


Re: Sachs 505 c/d Debate

Larry Picarello /

wow, thanks, and wow at how old this thread is!

Re: Sachs 505 c/d Debate

Larry, your C engine came with a 12mm Bing carb with a needle and #56 main jet. Apparently someone has replaced your C carb with a 12 mm D carb which has no needle and a #58 jet. A D carb is stamped with 85-12-104. A C carb is stamped 85-12-101. Your engine should run a little better with the D carb if you have a good pipe. If not, the engine might run a little rich.

Re: Sachs 505 c/d Debate

Andrew Browning /

this thread makes me laugh.

Lots o good info tho

Re: Sachs 505 c/d Debate

It's all sortof in the wiki now.

including the even weirder later european square cylinders which were actually MORE restricted than the US "B"'s. daaang

It's amazing how much confusion the sachs motors cause... there's like 10 different e50 cylinders and it doesnt seem to cause anywhere near as much confusion as basically 3 different sachs cylinders and 2 cranks...

Re: Sachs 505 c/d Debate

Andrew Browning /

WELL we didnt have any of that information on the wiki when I wrote this thread LOL.

But the wiki back then did say a 504 and a puch e50 where interchangeable. We have come a long way......

Re: Sachs 505 c/d Debate

Official WillD SWOOP Wrote:


> It's amazing how much confusion the sachs motors

> cause... there's like 10 different e50 cylinders

> and it doesnt seem to cause anywhere near as much

> confusion as basically 3 different sachs cylinders

> and 2 cranks...

This is such a good point. CONFUSION ABOUNDS.

Re: Sachs 505 c/d Debate

MEGA 7yr BUMP what a fascinating old thread!

I'm back on Team Sachs!

Finally got one of my dream Sachs, a 1982 (Bombardier) Eagle 2 w/ 505/1D


Re: Sachs 505 c/d Debate

I can verify the 505c , the 1978 Balboa I bought for my Grandson is a 505C , It shares the same carb 85/12/104A , which has no needle in the throttle slide. Same piston and rod but the crank on the 505 D

is different that gives it a longer stroke, hence higher compression . We replaced the entire ignition / electrical system .New piston and cylinder honed , it runs great, real strong and will hit 25-28 on flat surface

It has the same square cylinder / head because except for crank it’s the same identical engine as the 505D. The 104 A on the carb the A means it has a rubber tipped float valve

Re: Sachs 505 c/d Debate

I saw that and was pumped, you pretty single handedly helped keep me from jumping off the sachs wagon when things got hard, and i'm glad i stuck it out

and what a beauty too. that's one of those mopeds that really just fully embodies what I feel like a moped "should" be. it's pure simple quintessence of moped

Re: Sachs 505 c/d Debate

wow what a blast from the past!

ironically i just got done rebuilding my balboa from all those years ago:


i am actually doing a little informative video of the rebuild once i get the last shot done and edited... i think i actually screwed up some of the stuff in the video according to this thread... if i knew half as much as i've forgotten over the years...

Re: Sachs 505 c/d Debate

sweet! sachs! I'm still riding my sachs whenever i go in to work, which was only twice this week. same bike I had when I started posting in this thread almost 10 years ago. DEFINITELY not the same motor, haha as it related to sachs motor differences it's had a 1A, a 1D, a 2B, a kitted 2B, a 2D and now again a kitted 1A, and soon a 39cc minikit. but never a C.

I did sell it for several years, but it came back.

Re: Sachs 505 c/d Debate

Just wanted to update/hijack this thread with my Eagle II that's been restored w/ NOS D Crank. Running strong AF


Re: Sachs 505 c/d Debate

Awesome bump! This thread is amazing!!

Glad to see the love for Sachs is still out there.

Brendan- great looking bike, man!!

Years ago I picked up a beat to hell Eagle2 for $125... header pipe was mangled and shouldn’t have run well at all. Moped BBQ 12 or 13 we are riding out to the lake and blasting by people going almost 45, I couldn’t believe it. Bone stock eagle2 with mangled header pipe with this weird “speed hole” as we dubbed it, in the middle of the curve of the smashed up header pipe. I remember Nate Bandit pulling next to me with an odd look on his face asking what mods I had done. We both laughed when I told him how I had just picked it up a week before in this condition and it miraculously ran this amazing. D engine/Jug, 85-12-104 carb, mystery speed creating dents in the header. Haha. Miss that bike.

Props to all the Sachs lovers! Great bikes!!

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