Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

https://toolbox.martysgarage.info

Try this gearing calculator.

AE9B904E-05C6-4109-A19A-0F8EBB596350.png

This is your current gearing

E39C2136-ED7F-44A3-812D-85480E4A351F.png

17x45

84DA1410-D485-4B6B-B48F-7EC4A88C65C4.png

17x40

I really don’t think your bike is that far off. Sometimes I’ll run 18x45 if it can pull it. It all depends. But clutch tuning and you pipe should help you out.

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

Yeah according to that chart, it looks like I'm maxing out the pipe right now. Maybe I'm just expecting too much of this pipe throughout the low and mid range after reading all the reviews, which is why I keep tinkering with the bike trying to get it to hit the Powerband harder. For all I know my bike is running as best as it can with my setup and I'm just expecting too much.

I did come across this thread: https://www.mopedarmy.com/forums/read.php?7,3730800#msg-3730835

It looks like this user had a similar issue, trying to find out what was "normal" for the proma pipe as he was lacking top speed. I noticed he said that they adjusted the clip setting on the carb, and at one point it was too rich on the top end. I'm going to adjust my needle clip to the richest setting (bottom of the 4) and give that a whirl since I can't seem to get it 4 stroking. If nothing changes or it's worse, I'll have to wait and see how it runs with that 17 tooth.

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

I have shortened the stinger on those pipe to get more RPMs out of them. Weather or not it helped could have been in my imagination since I never had a tach on any of the bikes. Here is 4” removed from the stingier. It is still able to pull a 65cc kit real well with 18x45 gearing.

E06C9701-CEDF-4C29-B81B-7EAECC9D8897.jpeg

They always hit a wall where they just won’t wind out anymore. It seemed to make the wall less noticeable. I have always had better luck with the Techno Circuit. Has the low end pop of a circuit but will rev out way more.(edited)

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

Yes you need to adjust the needle first, THEN find the correct main jet size. You are doing it backwards. That thing should easily break 40

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

Thanks for sharing this image/tip! I might have to give that a try. But I agree, the pipe hits and then never feels like it fully rips through the powerband compared to every other 2 stroke I've ridden (dirtbikes, gopeds etc). What are you hitting top speed wise with 18x45? And what is your setup?

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

> Kyle Washburn Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> What are you hitting top speed wise with 18x45? And what is

> your setup?

Have you read this thread ?

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

With the needle adjustment, what does that affect? I know the jet has to do with WOT - does the needle affect the entire throttle range? If so, I definitely need to adjust to richest setting as the power feels lean throughout the rpm range. The weird thing is that temps still haven't been above 330* on my rides, granted they've been less than 5 miles and it's 25* out but I would think if it were lean throughout the range, temps would be higher

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

> P D Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Kyle Washburn Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > What are you hitting top speed wise with 18x45? And what is

>

> > your setup?

>

> Have you read this thread ?

I most certainly have read this thread. I don't recall him (erich) posting his entire setup (carb kit etc). Maybe I'm missing something? He posted screenshots of the gearing calculator, but I'm curious what setup he is running with the pipe as I don't recall seeing it.(edited)

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

My mistake . Thinking it was a different thread . Sorry . :(

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

F5872ED9-9E9D-41CC-9B46-138508E4D402.jpeg

This is actually Karl’s bike. But we did some stuff together. Best GPS was 51. But that was ideal conditions. With 18x45 gearing. It is normally 45-48mph bike. Proma with modded stingier, VM18, 65cc Arisal Kit (Heavily ported, like 4mm wider and raised 3mm). This bike has been running for the past 5years like this.

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

> P D Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> My mistake . Thinking it was a different thread . Sorry . :(

No worries! I appreciate you staying involved with this thread/issue and sending the plug reading chart.

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

> Baron Von Moped Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> >

> This is actually Karl’s bike. But we did some stuff together. Best GPS

> was 51. But that was ideal conditions. With 18x45 gearing. It is

> normally 45-48mph bike. Proma with modded stingier, VM18, 65cc Arisal

> Kit (Heavily ported, like 4mm wider and raised 3mm). This bike has

> been running for the past 5years like this.

Wow, same top end for the past 5 years and it rips mid-hi 40s?! That's my ultimate goal. I've been very close to buying a VM20 or a reeded kit, but I think I need to get my current setup dialed in perfectly. That's pretty incredible that he's hitting 10k RPMS with a proma pipe. I think I might mess with my needle clip setting tonight and then chop off 4" from my pipe if that doesn't do anything. I did do some light case matching on my setup, but didn't touch any porting.

Just curious, what type of riding do you do? Urban or city? I'm 90% city riding but for the other 10% I would love to have a mid 40s top speed.

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

About the same. Charlotte is actually kind of hilly. Nothing crazy but we do about 90% city and 10% back roads. What is actually funny that kit was soft seized when the seals went out on my ZA50. It was light but we cleaned it up and put it on his bike. That kit is actually 10 years old. It is definitely doable but idk if the smaller kit lets it rev out a little more or the porting. But the porting is pretty aggressive I think it has 185* blowdown? Idk it has been a while but the low end sucked with any other pipe than the proma.

I actually like the VM18s over the 20s. But that is personal preference.

Try losing some of the stinger and see if it helps? Idk it is just a thought.

Idk how much the needle setting will help but if your topping out at 330*F try putting the clip on the top notch and go from there. It’s all fine tuning from here. I would gear it as much as the bike will let you once you know the carb is properly tuned.

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

also, aside from all the technical stuffs... make sure your drive chain isn't too tight, make sure your brakes are not sticking, also more importantly, make sure your wheel bearings are freshened up with good grease and that your wheel bearing cones are not roached.

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

> Dusty Rim Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> also, aside from all the technical stuffs... make sure your drive chain

> isn't too tight, make sure your brakes are not sticking, also more

> importantly, make sure your wheel bearings are freshened up with good

> grease and that your wheel bearing cones are not roached.

Ya dude that is the truth! Most people get hung up on the technical stuff and skip the basics. Lots of MPH can be lost from too tight or loose of a chain, sticking brakes or bad wheel bearings.

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

Thanks for the advice guys! Drive chain and brakes are all good, but always a good reminder to check. I put the needle at the richest setting and man is my acceleration much better!!! Hits the Powerband much harder and doesn't feel as if it completely dies. I didn't GPS top speed but I don't think I'm going any faster, it just feels much stronger getting there. I only had time to change the needle, so my test was with a 75 jet and the needle at the richest setting. Starts first kick every time in this cold (20*F) and idles perfect. I don't have a baseline of a stock e50, so I don't know if this is maxed out as is, but I think I'm going to do some more experimenting with my Jets. Since it runs so nice at the richest needle, I was thinking of going lower on my jetting to see how that goes. Maybe trying a 72 to see how it feels and if it pulls any harder.

I do like the jammer clutch, but it revs pretty high from a stop when I'm taking off. As all of you mentioned, my 2 shoe with the stuff springs and MLM brace might be better for my set-up, so I'm gonna throw that back on in the next week or so and test it out. If I like that better, I'll probably sell the jammer as I won't need it.

Regardless, I'm pretty happy with the low-mid range power. It feels much better and actually feels like a low/mid range pipe now. Once my 17 tooth comes in, I'll throw that in and do some testing with different Jets to see what type of speeds I can hit. I've been telling myself that it's a one speed, air cooled, 70cc moped so it's not gonna absolutely blast off of the line, so maybe it's at it's full potential right now.

I'll keep you guys updated. I think I'm 90% of the way there and I'm almost ready to just ride this thing and not have to work on it all the time!

I haven't put the needle any leaner, but I don't think it needs it. I think the needle at the richest setting is perfect, and I'm just left with finding the perfect jet. I also might give that stinger a little cut because why not

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

Wanted to update: still waiting on the 17 tooth, but I was itching to ride so I took the ped out for it's first "real" ride since my full rebuild. I had planned to do a short one, but ended up doing an hour long ride through Boston for a total of 15 miles. Temps maxed at 343* during a long uphill stretch. Let me just say ... Wow!!! I started pedaling 2-3 strokes from takeoff and my low end is unbelievable. Even from a stop without peddling, it's much better than before. Still tops out at 36, but the Powerband hits wayyyyy harder and the thing really rips. This is with a 75 jet in and the needle on the richest setting. I left the jammer clutch on and I really like it now - not sure if I got used to it/learned how it engages/likes to run, or if it broke in a little bit more but it's awesome.

Overall, I don't think it could be running any better. Starts first kick when it's cold (25*F), and starts first kick after it's been ridden for an hour straight and is hot. Idle is perfect, takeoff is awesome, and low-mid range power is perfect. I honestly never needed to go faster than 36. Really happy with it. All it took was that needle clip move to the richest setting! (And lots of suggestions from you all)

Interested to see how it performs at 17x45. The kit was rattling very loudly at different times throughout my ride which made me nervous that the Piston was slapping, but after some research it seems like the treats kit is known to rattle.

I was smiling the whole hour while bundled in my winter coat and scarf, just enjoying the freshly built motor while people looked at me like wtf. Really happy I have a temp gauge so I can confidently ride at WOT and know it's still cool as well.

I'll report back when I put the 17 tooth on. Thank you all for the help, pumped I'm finally satisfied! Riding this bad boy to work tomorrow

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

That’s what it is all about!

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

> Baron Von Moped Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> That’s what it is all about!

Your help and advice throughout was very much appreciated. Just shows that people here are willing to help as long as I'm willing to put the time/work in to learn and understand things. Still pretty shocked that this thing ran so well for the entire ride. It definitely boosted my trust in its reliability. I did a quick check of some nuts & bolts (head bolts) to make sure nothing was loose, and I was good to go! Aside from putting the new sprockets on, I need to install the new brake shoes I bought - have no clue how to do that but I'll save that for spring when things warm up. Thanks again and I'll be reporting back when I get that sprocket on!

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

Glad you got it sorted out! It feels good when you finally get a handle on it. Enjoy! You may need to fine tune one needle setting or one jet size up or down, after it’s been run a while, and as the weather changes. Also double check for air leaks & re-torque your nuts and bolts after it’s been run awhile. But it sounds like you’re on the right track. Good job. Ride safe!

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

75 jet sounds "low" for a 15mm Bing with that kit and pipe, I'd go up to an 80 and work from there.

Re: 70cc Puch Maxi top end?

> Kenneth Hill Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> 75 jet sounds "low" for a 15mm Bing with that kit and pipe, I'd go up to

> an 80 and work from there.

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll give that a go tonight! Not 4 stroking with the 75 so maybe there's still room up top

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