Rectifiers and regulators

I will be doing a 12v conversion on my E50 with LED's soon and was wondering if the Rectifier is installed before or after the regulator? I know trail tech has a combo unit but I'm not going that way.

Thanks

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

Sometimes it is just easier to get LED bulbs that can handle AC and ditch the rectifier part.

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

Cheapest device is from pocket bikes - these are also combined regulator/rectifier

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

I already have all the parts, all I need to know is do I install the rectifier before or after the regulator.

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

it depends on what type of regulator and rectifier you are using

the rectifier will see the load from the regulator if you install it downstream so you might end up putting a lot of current through the rectifier if you put the regulator after the rectifier

but the regulator will only end up having to do half wave regulation and will be more accurate because it won't have the voltage drop from the rectifier so thats good

if i'm doing a 2 wire setup, where the regulator is taking unregulated AC in and outputting regulated AC, i'll do that right to the AC wire of the stator, then run the headlight off the regulated AC and run the diode right before it gets to the battery

if i'm running a 1 wire regulator i'll do the diode first and put the 1 wire regulator tee'd into the DC side of the circuit.

but like, seriously, combo reg/rec units are so much easier and better , the only time i do separate shenanigans is if i'm working with a bike that has marginal power output or if i have a very old wiring system that i'm trying to keep everything working 'as stock'

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

> Jeff Parr Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I already have all the parts, all I need to know is do I install the

> rectifier before or after the regulator.

You’re not providing a lot of info, but a rectifier will convert ac to dc, so if your regulator is rated to input an arbitrary dc voltage and output 12v dc, it would go after the rectifier.(edited)

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

Dirty30 Dillon /

Generally, your regulator proceeds the rectifier when they are separated.

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

> You’re not providing a lot of info, but a rectifier will convert ac to

> dc, so if your regulator is rated to input an arbitrary dc voltage and

> output 12v dc, it would go after the rectifier.

Sorry. here's what I have.

puch 12 volt light coil

trail tech dial-a-brightness

NTE53016 Silicon Bridge Rectifier

And last but not least

Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors

I know how to put it all together just sure if the rectifier is before or after the regulator or not

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

in this case the reg is an ac unit and goes before the rec.

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

I have used 6v led bulbs from the big lantern battery flashlights, they can take higher voltages at high rpms. I buy the 5.00 home depot ones and heat glue the innards into a dissected headlight bulb housing.

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

here is a case where you ask the wrong quesion. you are looking at the problem all wrong because which way you wire depends on how your stator is wired. what you should be asking is what way is easier.

ac to rectifier then regulator, full wave dc ungrounded stator. scoot r/r.

ac clipper regulator, then rectifier, trail tech, blaster, kdx or any ac dirt bike 12v 2 wire ac clipper, half wave grounded stator. you must change to all led's to make 6 to 12 work. simple and no need to remove the flywheel. no need to rewire the stator. remember do not use the - terminal at the rectifier. it is n/c and not grounded to the frame. - voltage is the half of the wave that gets wasted. but wait the scoot r/r comes in half wave flavor. that means ac then rec then reg and ground at the frame.

do yo know what capacitor you need?

this site is full of trolls that will spam this post. get ready for a shitstorm.

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

el pollo. I have no ideal as to most of what you said. I know how to wire a rectifier in and I knowing, I've built whole wiring harness from scratch but think of me as a mid line with electronics put it in a way I can understand. It's ironic in the middle of the silicon valley and I don't do electronics. I know there are more then one troll here but I don't really care.

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

> Jeff Parr Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> el pollo. I have no ideal as to most of what you said.

it's not just you...

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

> ken gilbert Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Jeff Parr Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > el pollo. I have no ideal as to most of what you said.

>

> it's not just you...

Oh thank god it's not just me.

dumb.jpg

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

lets start again. then re read what I wrote before.

you think there is a correct order. rec first or reg first and Im saying both work.

how you know what electrical part to order? you need to know if the stator is grounded or ungrounded. either the stator wire is grounded or its not grounded and both stator wires are connected to each other.

you need to unplug and test, that will determine what electrical part to order.

and you never answered my question. to you know what capacitor to order?(edited)

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

> Rebel Moby Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Cheapest device is from pocket bikes - these are also combined

> regulator/rectifier

pocket bikes and scoots. in the combined r/r the rectifier comes first inside the unit.

> Jeff Parr Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I already have all the parts, all I need to know is do I install the

> rectifier before or after the regulator.

if its an ac clipper 2 wire then the rectifier comes after the regulator.

> Guthrie Mass Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Jeff Parr Wrote:

>

> > ------------------------------------------------------

> You’re not providing a lot of info, but a rectifier will convert ac to

> dc, so if your regulator is rated to input an arbitrary dc voltage and

> output 12v dc, it would go after the rectifier.

yes that's the way I do it.

> Dirty30 Dillon Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Generally, your regulator proceeds the rectifier when they are

> separated.

this is the not the case for antiques, all pre 1975 its rectifier first.

any mechanical regulator is wired this way way.

> ken gilbert Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> in this case the reg is an ac unit and goes before the rec.

yes it is.

> John Maxson Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I have used 6v led bulbs from the big lantern battery flashlights, they

> can take higher voltages at high rpms. I buy the 5.00 home depot ones

> and heat glue the innards into a dissected headlight bulb housing.

so have I. this is another way.

puch 12 volt light coil

trail tech dial-a-brightness

NTE53016 Silicon Bridge Rectifier

And last but not least

Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors

there usually are 2 ac wires coming out of the stator. if you say there is only 1

wire coming out of the stator then the other side is ground. the order is

trail tech clipper ac regulator first then the rectifier. the cap wires in the same

way as a battery. the value I use is 63v 22,000uf.

If I saw your post before you bought the parts I would have told you to use

the yamaha blaster regulator because it's $9 on ebay. NTE53016 Silicon Bridge Rectifier is an interesting part. I would like to know why you ordered this part.

its a 3 phase rectifier. you only have one phase. in order to wire this in you

will have a lot of terminals unconeected. next time for 1 or 2 phases order

the kbpc5010 rectifier.

one important thing to know. the negative terminal will be n/c. you put the regulated.ac stator output goes to any of the 3 ac terminals and you only use the +. if you ground the rectifier in this configuration you will blow up the rectifier.

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

Thank you for the info.

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

Brad William /

Dave Steele said it. And I understand that the OP already has the parts and wishes to use them.

But for anyone interested in this topic just for led lighting conversion (no need for battery, charging, or other dc accessories) consider the 'black box' concept of design. If you'd like to learn what's in the black box by all means, learn it. But this is a situation where it's not all that necessary.

Most black boxes we use well enough without knowing how they function. I don't want to learn how to convert my existing bathroom receptacles into ground fault versions. I'm happy to let the engineers do that part for me and will just go down to home depot and buy the 'black box' version of ground fault receptacles. All that engineering has been done for me. Now it's just power in - power out.

Similarly I've been using two of these as headlights on my Puch maxi...

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Philips-50-Watt-Equivalent-MR16-Dimmable-LED-Light-Bulb-Glass-470278/302187933

...straight off the AC from the old 1978 E50 lighting coil. No mods. All the rectification and regulation is on a postage stamp sized circuit board right inside the bulb. I get 1240 lumens of 3000k light with a 35 degree spread. In four years of riding not a single hiccup. Slight dimming at idle. Full light beyond that.

I wish they'd burn out so I'd have a good excuse to drop 35 dollars on a pair with 1320 lumens at 4000k and a narrower 25 degree spread.

https://www.bulbs.com/product/8-5MR16-LED-840-F25-DIM-12V

I'll only vouch for Philips at this point. I tried a Feit mr16 at one point cuz it was a 4000k and cheaply on sale. Worked just fine except for a slightly annoying flicker. So between brands YMMV.(edited)

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

Brad William /

There are also ar111 LEDs from philips that are interesting. Bigger bulb, up to 1400L each, and available in 25 degree spots at 4000k.

https://www.lighting.philips.com/main/prof/led-lamps-and-tubes/led-spots/master-ledspot-lv-ar111

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

Brad William /

4000k seems pretty ideal to me. Automotive lights seem to be getting whiter and out on the road my 3000k bulbs look kind of sickly yellow by comparison. 5000k and above is kind of cold and sterile blue/white.(edited)

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

like the op says, he has the parts already.

jeff I'm sorry. why don't you complain when I make a mistake.

you have a 50a 2 phase rectifier. dillon gave up on me. and I'm

not explaining things well enough. once the one lighting stator is

attached to the ac regulator. I need to tell you what happens in

the rectifier. sorry again dude. these are the outputs and imputs

at each terminal. this rectifier has 2 ac terminals. 2 phase. you only

want to rectify one ac phase so one 2 of the ac imputs is n/c

at this point you want to set the trail tec to 28vac. If it does not

go this high no biggie. I'll get to it. the output between ground and

the + terminal is now 14v dc. the cap gets attached bettween + and

frame ground. the minus rectifier terminal is -14v regulated minus.

the rectifier - is not used. the bike is already wired with the frame as

ground you are done. frame is - and + is 14v. if you have a blaster

type or if the trail tech voltage does not go that high then you need

to float ground. + is 7v and - is -7v. you float ground by running the

ground that floats at -7v. and isolating the bulbs from the frame.

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

I know your putting simple for me but to tell the truth I'm really confused now, I think I need the break out my old books from my college days and read up on all the stuff i haven't needed in years and have forgotten. As I sometimes say the joys of getting old.

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

Dirty30 Dillon /

He's spewing gobbledygook to sound smart. He could have simply answered your question, but instead chose to make himself sound intelligent.

El Trollo must have taken an extra B12 today.

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

> Dirty30 Dillon Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> He's spewing gobbledygook to sound smart. He could have simply answered

> your question, but instead chose to make himself sound intelligent.

>

> El Trollo must have taken an extra B12 today.

none of what I posted is gobbledygook. fuck you for trying to sell overpriced crap to people on this forum. instead of telling the poster why things work I should just tell him how to hook it up. he might just want to know how to hook the thing up. so it does not blow up. Dillon can't

instead of breaking out the books why don't you just ask me questions. they are not black boxes they are baja boxes. I make my own.

you say there is one wire out of the stator. I say put a meter on it and test if the other side of the wire is ground. if it is you have only two ways to wire.

those 2 ways are 1/2 wave or full wave with a floating ground. this is deep theory Dillon does not think you should know.

lets assume you have 1 stator wire and the stator is grounded.

here are the connections, no theory

rectifier + terminal------- capacitor+

rectifier ac terminal----- stator wire, trailtech +

other ac terminal ------- n/c

rectifier negative terminal ------ n/c

frame ----------------------- capacitor - and trailtech regulator -

14v is between rectifier + and the frame.

this assumes the trailtech goes up to 28v if it does not you have to float ground.

rectifier + ------ cap +

rectifier ac --- stator wire, trailtech +

other rectifier ac ---- n/c

rectifier negative -- new floating ground. it floats at -7v.

frame -------------- trail tech -, cap -

14v rectified and regulated juice is between the new ground and + on the rectifier.

i'm amazed you have gotten this far without any ee knowledge. you are almost there, you still need to test the stator. why don't you.

I'm also amazed at Dillon. he should have written this instead of his usual trolling.(edited)

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

Dirty30 Dillon /

Rather than talking down to people and over-explaining things that haven't been requested, I tend to answer the question succinctly. If the poster requires clarification, I will answer, or PM.

If you want to preach your "deep" knowledge, put it in a wiki post that is well written and laid out, rather than giant, oddly spaced, run-on blurb.

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

> Dirty30 Dillon Wrote:

>

> poster requires clarification, I will answer

you are lying. I got it.

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

here are the connections, no theory. this assumes the trailtech goes up to 28v if it does not you have to float ground.

rectifier + terminal------- capacitor+

rectifier ac terminal----- stator wire, trailtech +

other ac terminal ------- n/c

rectifier negative terminal ------ n/c

frame ----------------------- capacitor - and trailtech regulator -

14v is between rectifier + and the frame. .

this assumes the trailtech only goes to 14v or you are using a cheapo blaster or dirt bike 2 wire 12v ac regulator.

rectifier + ------ cap +

rectifier ac --- stator wire, trailtech +

other rectifier ac ---- n/c

rectifier negative -- new floating ground. it floats at -7v.

frame -------------- trail tech -, cap -

14v rectified and regulated juice is between the new ground and + on the rectifier.

you can not use the frame as ground in this configuration.(edited)

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

for someone well-versed and practiced in the art of electronics, it should be dead simple to draw a schematic. there is a reason electronic circuits are not often described verbally, but rather via a graphical representation of the logical topology using standardized nomenclature.

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

Dirty30 Dillon /

> el pollo Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Dirty30 Dillon Wrote:

>

> >

>

> > poster requires clarification, I will answer

>

> I'm a buffoon. I got it.

Cool

Re: Rectifiers and regulators

> ken gilbert Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> for someone well-versed and practiced in the art of electronics, it

> should be dead simple to draw a schematic. there is a reason electronic

> circuits are not often described verbally, but rather via a graphical

> representation of the logical topology using standardized nomenclature.

I answered the post. I don't care if you can't wire stuff you haven't bothered to look up. took the time to google the op's parts list, did you? obviously not. what names did I use that's not standard?

more importantly what did I post that's wrong?

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