Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

Ken,

There’s so many things wrong with what you said. You tout your knowledge of history and your experience, but it is so closed minded and only looking through a small scope. You so obviously don’t know enough about; American politics, international geopolitics, socialism, modern battery technology, China durning world war II, the military industrial complex, run away capitalism, drug addiction as well as the sources of what perpetuates it and a number of other things you speak so definitively on.

Back on topic: bird owns onyx and I believe Tim designed that Bird cruiser.

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

Walking into the line of fire here...I’m the designer for Spark Cycleworks in CT. We are working on our 2nd gen emoped. As someone that also rides gas, I’m constantly torn. I love the sound, smell, and work that it takes to keep my older mopeds going. There’s a sense of pride there. However, I love electric because I can just jump on and go. No maintenance and I get about 40 miles on a charge. My gas moped has gotten love through caring for its motor. Whereas my electric has gotten love through customization. Take it for what you will, but I end up riding my electric more than my gas motorcycle and moped combined because it’s never broken down. I’m happy I stumbled on this thread, if there’s anyone that lives in CT and wants to talk design, I’m all ears.

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

Electric roadmaster

Rubeeeeeeee

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

> jayson sumpter Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Rubeeeeeeee

That^ is a slick piece of work . ;)

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

interesting, I hadn't realized bird owned onyx. Are there any prototypes yet? All I see are concept doodles

SEE THIS IS INTERESTING EVEN IF WE STAY ON TOPIC about electric mopeds

I follow juiced's e-bikes the scorpion looks pretty sweet. I remember seeing one of the super 73's out and it looked pretty good, but you can't remove the battery.

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

> Daniel '' Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Ken,

>

> There’s so many things wrong with what you said.

I normally skip Roffrants, but you made me read this delightful deranged nonsense.

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

Hoping I can shed some light on why prices, speeds, and motors are what they are for electric. (I'm the main design engineer over at Spark Cycleworks). You'll see alot of folks limiting to 28mph: This is directly tied to the three different classes ebikes are being broken up into by law 28 is related to a class 3 ebike. Also mopeds can't legaly go faster than 30mph, so a manufacturer like us can't sell it. For motor: This is an evolving topic. We all know the 50 cc rule. Well, that's changing. For example, our shop is in Connecticut and the new rule adds a 2hp clause. That translates to 1,491 watts. Which is why our mopeds are 1500 watts. Above that and it becomes a motorcycle. We expect to see that law spread around the country. For prices: as you'd expect it's all the batteries and tariffs. From what we see, those prices are steadily declining. That 2k price point will be realistic in about a year. Although, 40+mph wont be unless you've got a motorcycle license (unless super capacitors and battery tech evolves).

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

....spoken like a true Trumpanzee, parrot Fox much?

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

> Kenneth Hill Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> ....spoken like a true Trumpanzee, parrot Fox much?

What are you talking about ?

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

Anonymous User /
scootertrash

Hicks don’t micks with politicks fuck face.

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

^

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

Oh nice, the spark scooters are pretty rad looking. Yeah I wonder what the market is for that intermediate speed, like not an electric motorcycle but able to go 40 or 50 - same zone as our legally questionable kitted mopeds. right now it seems good for those size e-bikes cuz it's still got it's own legal gray area, but once they're limited legally (as-sold) the way mopeds are, it's a little less obvious making em faster. Like a new "30mph 2hp" tomos or bye bike really does like 35 and can get over 40 with lil more effort than a bolt-on pipe, and over 50 with a kit.

SO - hows the aftermarket look for e-bikes and do you see a future where the upgrade options exist "for offroad use only" to allow people to bolt-on upgrade their legal bikes to questionably legal 40+ speeds? And would you see manufacturers supporting this? If the batteries and all could handle it and you swap a better controller, that's the <$500 hop-up price point we're looking for, but it then of course disadvantages the seller to intentionally over-size their components and sell something that's limited back down to perform still the same as a cheaper but less upgrade-able option... If you're talking about needing new battery and motor etc, you're basically doubling the bike's cost just to eke out that extra questionably legal performance gains.

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

Maitlanf Of the Loin /

No, Bird does not own Onyx

Tim started Onyx and then was hired by Bird.

Now James, and Ryan from the Creatures run Onyx

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

Whoops, I thought Tim sold it to bird, that’s super rad they still run it! It’s even better that he’s on their payroll over at bird.

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

whoa! the plot thickens.

but yea, whatta ya think the future could like like for a "legal" ebike with performance aftermarket?

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

Maitlanf Of the Loin /

aftermarket "performance" for the most part is contained within the controller configuration

the better controllers have a configuration GUI

the cheaper ones you should probably know C code

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

Bump.....

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

these go for like $14k

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

Looks like they didn't meet their IGG goals...

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

Benjamin The Wandering Pacer /

> Matt Schell Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Walking into the line of fire here...I’m the designer for Spark

> Cycleworks in CT. We are working on our 2nd gen emoped. As someone that

> also rides gas, I’m constantly torn. I love the sound, smell, and work

> that it takes to keep my older mopeds going. There’s a sense of pride

> there. However, I love electric because I can just jump on and go. No

> maintenance and I get about 40 miles on a charge. My gas moped has

> gotten love through caring for its motor. Whereas my electric has gotten

> love through customization. Take it for what you will, but I end up

> riding my electric more than my gas motorcycle and moped combined

> because it’s never broken down. I’m happy I stumbled on this thread, if

> there’s anyone that lives in CT and wants to talk design, I’m all ears.

Not in CT but love to talk design. As one designer to another I am going to be straight to the point. The "eMoped" models listed on the spark site don't look like mopeds. I am not even talking about the fact that they are more of a scooter look. Mopeds have a classic look and feel that so far IMO only Onyx has captured. Even though Monday built their bike on a Puch frame, it lost all of its moped look when they stuck that box "tank" on it and I am not sure what is up with that seat? I understand that e bikes are a product of the "future" but mopeds are a product of old school. I would toss the new Italjet ebikes out there as another example of taking it back to the classics. All that said I am not against designing for a future product but at least make it look like a moped.

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

Yo those cake bikes can get it for sure saw them at the AIM expo in town a few weeks ago, they had their own class in the Indoor flat track

Beta and KTM have some sweet kids e-dirts that are pretty awesome, the tech is coming along

E-stuff is all fun but fuel burning machines spark my senses - all of them - that’s what it’s about for me. The sound. the smell. The feel. The views.

Oxygenated fuel smells so good. hell I bet most of us here like the smell of shitty ethanol pump gas.

TLDR: batteries don’t smell that good when they burn!

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

> jayson sumpter Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> So ugly and @ $6-14k..... Let them eat cake!

>

> https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29688737/cake-osa-electric-motorcycle/

Looks like some kind of self driving scooter. Sit at home and watch on camera while it takes a ride for you. Maybe have it pick up a pizza to bring back to the house.(edited)

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

Did the rieju/bye bike nuuk make it in here? It's got a decent combo style that looks definitely electric but good forks shocks wheels etc.. I kinda love the flip up passenger seat and they go 70

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

Looks like it's put together with Legos.

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

I happen to agree with you. This was a discussion we had within our team. The term Moped just seemed to resonate with unfamiliar consumers a bit better. However, we had a talk and have corrected our listing to eScooter. Please see: https://www.sparkcycleworks.com/

Thank you for helping us out!

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

I do think the topic up "upgradeability" will be one of the more exciting aspects of making mopeds electric. Our team has been trying out some wacky things. This is what happens when we add a motor to the front as well:

We are working on a model with a low initial price point, that then can be upgraded as time goes on. What do you all think?

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

> jayson sumpter Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> So ugly and @ $6-14k..... Let them eat cake!

>

> https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a29688737/cake-osa-electric-motorcycle/

did you actually look at the site or you just doin the MA default response

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

Those sparks look fun too, also at the AIM flat track this year

Re: A Challenger Approaches - another e-ped enters the ring

> river 2strokes Wrote:

> ------------------------------------------------------

> did you actually look at the site or you just doin the MA default

> response

>

> https://ridecake.com/wp-content/uploads/kalk-prod-series-front-181008.jpg

Yes, and I stand by my opinion. At 6-14k, I say let them eat cake...........

You actually care, or you just doin the MA default antithetical response?

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