Re: ONYX moped review (VIDEO)

> Benjamin The Wandering Pacer Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Will, I can totally understand cost but I felt that same way about the

> 2017/18 Tomos models also. They were 1800/2200 when they came out. Its

> hard to compare that to the 600/700 dollar vintage bikes. Sticker shock

> is just going to have to be a thing until these things reach 40 years

> old also. For reference I am still running a 2014 Nexus 6. :D

Yea that's kinda my point, or at least my silly way of thinking about it - same w Groms. I wont buy a new grom, I wouldn've bought a new MB5, but someday maybe i'll grab a cheap barnfind grom and manage to restore it? But for these electrics - at 40 years will those batteries still work? probably not and then new ones (at today prices) are half the cost of the new bike again. Its obviously flawed logic tho, 40 years from now holy shit it will be a different world lol

Re: ONYX moped review (VIDEO)

I agree. the electricity you charge it with comes from a polluting power plant and the minerals the battery's are made of come from pillaging the earth. I'll stick to 2-strokes for the environments' sake.

Re: ONYX moped review (VIDEO)

🇮🇹💦 Of the Loin /

thats the beauty though

it doesn't matter what shape batteries are in in 40 years, as long as they provide 36, 48, 72 volts etc its universal

its like saying you don't know what future carburators are going to look like so you wont use a gas powered bike

Re: ONYX moped review (VIDEO)

Not really bro. Iam saying electric pollutes just as much as dino-fuel. what's the point of switching to electric when in the end we're still shiting on the environment. It's like saying in the future we'll innovate our way out of all our problems. Its wishful thinking, technology makes things easier at the expense of nature and biodiversity.

Re: ONYX moped review (VIDEO)

Dirty30 Dillon /

> Alex hernandez Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I am saying electric pollutes just as much as dino-fuel.

Where can one find this comprehensive and accredited study on the equivalency of pollution output between petroleum product combustion and electricity generation?

Re: ONYX moped review (VIDEO)

The internet has it. look for it.

Re: ONYX moped review (VIDEO)

> Maitland Of the Loin Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> thats the beauty though

>

> it doesn't matter what shape batteries are in in 40 years, as long as

> they provide 36, 48, 72 volts etc its universal

>

> its like saying you don't know what future carburators are going to look

> like so you wont use a gas powered bike

oh I know it's flawed logic, it's just what gets kinda stuck in my head anyway. Like I go look for older electric bicycles on craigslist now and think, oh that's a good deal for 200 but I'd need another 500-1000 in batteries and then i'm almost at new e-bike anyway.

As for the fuel pollutes anyway, that's a silly and demonstrably false statement. It's a fun thing to tell ourselves when we don't want to change. I do agree with it on some fronts however - specifically that restoring old things has huge benefits over building and buying new things. So from that point, definitely lets save old mopeds and port the stock cylinder instead of buying new - adapt some old throwaway blinker to replace your headlight instead of buying new. Make a fairing out of that rusted old hobbit tank instead of buying a new one. there's advantages there. But to say that emerging technology like batteries are as bad or worse than fossil fuel is plainly false, but worse the new technologies have a lot more opportunity to be better than they are, and that's only advanced once we start promoting their use - like think of early gas engines and how crazy inefficient they were, and compare that to engines now. Then to compare that highly evolved technology to new tech in it's infancy with low penetration and not yet benefiting from economy of scale it's rather unfair. and still doesn't make a reasonable case for battery being worse than fuel

Re: ONYX moped review (VIDEO)

Dirty30 Dillon /

Alex,

I don't give your opinion of this matter much credence. Electricity is not equally as harmful as petroleum combustion engines.(edited)

Re: ONYX moped review (VIDEO)

I hear ya Will. From an emissions stand point electric is cleaner but from an overall production stand point the benefit is marginal. It's more lucrative to mine coltan and cobalt than gold and diamonds. In Africa people are dying/being killed for our technology. "blood batteries" they call it. Not to mention the millions of tons of earth that have to be cleared and mined, ecosystems destroyed for some ounces of minerals all so we can enjoy our precious technology. Not that oil is better in anyway but electric is not as green as ya'll want to believe.

Dilon,

this is my opinion and your credence is meaningless.

Re: ONYX moped review (VIDEO)

Dirty30 Dillon /

> Alex hernandez Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Dilon,

>

> this is my opinion and your credence is meaningless.

~~"Florida man mistakes opinions for scientific proof, today on Vintage Scooter Website Today"~~

Re: ONYX moped review (VIDEO)

I clearly stated that it was an opinion. never said it was proof of anything. Don't care to prove anything. Believe what you like.

Re: ONYX moped review (VIDEO)

ERIC from Idaho! /

> Alex hernandez Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I clearly stated that it was an opinion. never said it was proof of

> anything. Don't care to prove anything. Believe what you like.

May be of so little value that it doesn't deserve its own post lol

Re: ONYX moped review (VIDEO)

copied from an earier post but relevant: I kinda tend to go off on this one cuz I think a lot about efficient technologies etc

Here's reality - we need energy. it's never free and it's never perfect. Best way to reduce impact? reduce energy use!

besides that, no form of energy can possibly be perfectly clean. And while easily glossed over by casual advocates of "green" energy it's equally or more overstated by strident critics.

But fortunately we don't need to rely on the talking points of idealists or conservative defeatists - the truths are in the numbers, the numbers are easily accessible, and people have devoted enormous efforts into studying the fine details and published reports on cradle to grave including the manufacture costs and disposal costs, compiled from literal thousands of published works. Even when you consider the impact of manufacturing the "green" technologies; wind, solar and nuclear are vastly less polluting than coal. (for example: sure mining material for the batteries in a wind turbine generator are polluting, but how do you think coal plants get power from their steam turbines?)

I think nuclear can be a worthwhile solution, not the ultimate but demonstrably better than coal, there's the risk that it won't be completely contained, but in my opinion that's a better outcome than the pollution from power generation being knowingly and intentionally uncontained.

it's also unfair to consider just the direct impact of a car for example, and compare it to the whole cradle to grave impact of electric vehicles. lets reuse old shit - pretty much anything new is a waste of resources. It's kinda unfair to imply that only materials for green technology are required to be sustainably sourced.

regarding battery for electrics it becomes advantageous if we also adopt more renewable energy sources, but in order to do that we need the demand, chicken/egg, building the infrastructure and technology is moving in the right direction, versus stagnating and saying it's not clean enough now so we might as well not even try.

and further we NEED to improve the recycling technology. it's easy with proper regulation to ensure that the vast majority of batteries are reclaimed. Yet it's still more economical to dig the metals out than reclaim them after being in batteries, due to the chemical reactions that make batteries function it's feasibile to envision a future where a majority of the raw materials aren't being mined. Look at PGM's for catalytic converters as an example. Also it's driven tech to some less harmful solutions too, cobalt's declined in popularity

Re: ONYX moped review (VIDEO)

🇮🇹💦 Of the Loin /

dude

graphene supercapacitors

I think thats the ultimate solution

but also I think that once our entire society switches to storing energy in carbon based graphene, we will realize theres some crazy fuckery with carbon and our planet and we will enter an ice-age due to absorbing so much carbon from the environment (the opposite of global warming, putting too much carbon into the environment)

But Batteries themselves are negliable in the long run. Think of this:

your battery pack LiIon is rated for 500-800 cycles of 0-100% then back to 0 again.

1 cycle equals 100-0-100

500 cycles and your pack is only 75% of capacity (this is much worse than real world)

1 cycle = 100 miles of range (common EV car, Nissan Leaf)

500 x 100 = 50,000 miles of driving before you will begin to have an issue with your propulsion system.

this is a worse case scenario, where you only get 50,000 miles of troublefree operation out of your drivetrain. Most Powertrain warranties are 40,000 miles. Your battery in a Prius or a LEAF is guaranteed for 10 years.

By all metrics, an EV battery system is more reliable and just as efficient if not more than your gas system.

Re: ONYX moped review (VIDEO)

Stating that electricity is cleaner is rather naive. Yes it can be, but in the States for the most part right now it is not.

Also while right now battery powered vehicles are in vogue I hope they have a very short life span, and we quickly transition to H2. Most of the issues with running a fuel cell have been conquered, and they don't have the major issues that will always plague battery powered vehicles.

Re: ONYX moped review (VIDEO)

Wow! Apparently Xiaomi (make the bird scooties) is dropping a e-moped in china soon.

https://electrek.co/2019/04/23/xiaomi-himo-t1-electric-moped-bike/

Looks kinda cool, doesn't seem to be much different from the existing china electric delivery bike "mopeds" you see all over chinatown already. slow, like 15mph.

still though, that's crazy cheap - even for just the battery $450 with 48V 14Ah

Re: ONYX moped review (VIDEO)

Several friends of mine have Xiaomi smartphones and i'm pretty surprised at how good they are for so little money, so maybe their e-scoot will also be way better than you'd expect

Re: ONYX moped review (VIDEO)

Dirty30 Dillon /

If that can be shipped here, I would buy one. E-Bikes in the city are the bees knees.

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