Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

So, I've been tinkering, tweaking, and tuning my E50 Newport carb while waiting for clutch springs. I've just been trying to get it to run well stock before making any performance mods, And while I had been able to get it to run and accelerate smooth with a good idle, I was disappointed in the 24-25 max speed I could get out of it. I have verified that it is a 2hp model, with no intake or exhaust restrictions. Points, plug, Carb and exhaust squeaky clean, and timing is set. Piston, cylinder, rings, and compression all good, and running at its peak, I could still only get 24-25 out of it with my big ol butt on it.

So, in conversation with Ken Roff, he said to leave the stock air box off and see what happens. I did, and instantly gained a solid 5mph. That's a 20% gain instantly by ditching the demon vampire sucker box that was on there. So now I'm getting a solid 30mph and I haven't fine tuned my jetting or needle setting yet.

Moral of the story: Listen to Ken and ditch that air box, and replace it with a metal mesh filter and cut your side cover to fit.

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Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

Just taking off the snorkel would've gained you 2/3 mph.

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

Dirty30 Dillon /

Yeah, I typically leave the airbox, pull the snorkel and the element inside

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

Overpriced Parts /

It don’t work on all hp or cylinder types (especially 1hp) but most times a piston port induction moped cylinder needs no restriction

Many times you don’t see gains until you retune,

For rear brake cable Just set or zip tie rear brake cable on top of pedal shaft exhaust mount part on frame for smoother operation then if cable was snapped in junk airbox mount slot so rear brakes work better too.

Win win

DE064E3B-ECEE-4F41-93AA-1AD0A5070361.jpeg

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

Chöschi21 C.K. /

I actualy had a 1hp Setup with 18mm Exhaust and the Restricted intake with removing the snorkel+plugs, and upping the Compression i got over 30 out if it with the Stock 13:45 Gearing, for some reason when i changed the cylinder for the same Model it didn't go over 20-23, swapped it back and it went 30+ again, only happened with this one cylinder, tried 2 or 3, looked and measured the same as the orher ones, still have no clue why it happened. (edited)

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

I actually really like the stock puch airboxes. Once you get the right atomizer/jet combo they can work well and are very quiet. Dont want to wake up the neighborhood coming home from work at 1a.m... I also love to be able to hear the fweem of a well tuned piston port without the annoying unmuffled carb tone.

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

Overpriced Parts /

> Daniel '' Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I actually really like the stock puch airboxes. Once you get the right

> atomizer/jet combo they can work well and are very quiet. Dont want to

> wake up the neighborhood coming home from work at 1a.m... I also love to

> be able to hear the fweem of a well tuned piston port without the

> annoying unmuffled carb tone.

You must not live nowhere near Harley riders Who take their $20-$30,000 bikes and come home to 3 o’clock in the morning and shake the whole house! it must suck living with half the hp and speed you could be getting if you threw away the stock square restrictive maxi turbulence airbox, why have less hp and power when the evidence proves otherwise ?

I like what you post Daniel and many times you are wise beyond your years on some things but you have nothing on my years of 50cc to 490cc two-stroke experience and by the time you do, boring electric autonomous scooters/Vehicles will be in their third generation!

loud pipes and loud intake noise save lives as well as keeping up with traffic at whatever speed traffic is going and my almost quarter million miles of two wheeled 2 cycle experience will attest to that,

25 to 30 mph on the 35 mile an hour road is an accident sooner or later but 35 to 40 mph on the same road is keeping up with traffic And is way safer

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

When you need an annoyingly loud moped to save your life, moving might be a good idea.

I hate harley riders and honda 4 stroke fuckers, i wont be an annoying shitbag with a loud moped.

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

Chöschi21 C.K. /

Completely agree with you, the US seems to have a horrible traffic system.

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

Brandon Weiss (Detective brandon to you) /

Also, exhaust and intake noise move backwards, because they are typically pointed that way.....so, loud pipes dont really let people in front of you know where you are.

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

> Chöschi21 C.K. Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Completely agree with you, the US seems to have a horrible traffic

> system.

Yeah they do, always complaining about potholes; the only four "potholes" in my town sell weed.

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

Oh boy Ken is cold and cranky today. I can make any stock Bing maxipooch run every bit as fast with the airbox as without it. Built plenty of 35+ stock maxis with the airbox. Getting ready to do another one

Mopeds ain't rocket surgery, get rid of the snorkel duh and cut the hole out full size where it goes into the frame, I'll probably post some stuff about the 78 sport mk2 Maxi that is on the bench right now.

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

Also, this thread: TLDR; my moped wasn't running right, instead of tuning it I took off the airbox and it ran faster. CONCLUSION? IT WAS THE AIRBOXES FAULT!

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

> Graham Motzing Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Oh boy Ken is cold and cranky today. I can make any stock Bing maxipooch

> run every bit as fast with the airbox as without it. Built plenty of

> 35+ stock maxis with the airbox. Getting ready to do another one

>

> Mopeds ain't rocket surgery, get rid of the snorkel duh and cut the hole

> out full size where it goes into the frame, I'll probably post some

> stuff about the 78 sport mk2 Maxi that is on the bench right now.

That's kinda the purpose of thus thread, to discuss getting the most out of a stock bike without, or with the OG air box. While it's obviously not rocket surgery, different folks have different results with their setups, and I'm wanting to hear from all of your experiences. I haven't been messing with these bikes very long, not nearly as long as any of y'all, but I'm building off of your experience. So, while basic, if I can get good results by keeping the stock air box and ditching the snorkel and cutting the hole bigger, that's great info. If the element inside needs to go, will it come out the hole, or do I gotta butcher the box? I've got a couple days before my clutch springs and metal mesh filter get here, so I'm experimenting, but damn it's so cold to test ride!

I'm keeping this bike stock for the specific purpose of keeping it quiet, but I still want a 35 mph bike.

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

> Graham Motzing Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Also, this thread: TLDR; my moped wasn't running right, instead of

> tuning it I took off the airbox and it ran faster. CONCLUSION? IT WAS

> THE AIRBOXES FAULT!

basically.

if you took off your airbox and it ran better, you were probably jetted rich.

or you took it off and it seemed to run better because lean bikes always seem "better"

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

The snorkel is for real a bonerkiller though, I don't doubt that for a second

Did you check your timing? Ditch any head gaskets? The iron hi-torq cylinders need porting usually to break 35. Does it have a pipe?

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

Dont matter how loud your raspy ass no baffle puch is, it won't stop a dummy from pulling out of a driveway on their cellphone or an uber driver looking for his next fare from becoming a +2 ton weapon. Cars have good noise dampening these days to isolate you even further from the outside world. Loud pipes dont save lives, being cautious, having quick reflexes and good brakes do. Personally I havent been in a crash with a car since I moved off of Seattle's party mountain 4 years ago. The last guy who clipped me pleaded, "oh please dont call the cops, do you want some coke?"

Anyways back to the main topic. Airboxes rule, you can get just as much h.p. from a tuned bike with or without an airbox. I find that my bikes with airboxes are less sensitive to weather and slight elevation changes than open flow. But ken did write the book on gearing your puch to hit 60. So you should probably just follow him blindly into the boring realm of 14° points timing and derestricted Estorils on everything.

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

so you took no cops and coke for 500, right?

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

Brandon Weiss (Detective brandon to you) /

> Daniel '' Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Dont matter how loud your raspy ass no baffle puch is, it won't stop a

> dummy from pulling out of a driveway on their cellphone or an uber

> driver looking for his next fare from becoming a +2 ton weapon. Cars

> have good noise dampening these days to isolate you even further from

> the outside world. Loud pipes dont save lives, being cautious, having

> quick reflexes and good brakes do. Personally I havent been in a crash

> with a car since I moved off of Seattle's party mountain 4 years ago.

> The last guy who clipped me pleaded, "oh please dont call the cops, do

> you want some coke?"

>

> Anyways back to the main topic. Airboxes rule, you can get just as much

> h.p. from a tuned bike with or without an airbox. I find that my bikes

> with airboxes are less sensitive to weather and slight elevation changes

> than open flow. But ken did write the book on gearing your puch to hit

> 60. So you should probably just follow him blindly into the boring realm

> of 14° points timing and derestricted Estorils on everything.

Shots fired!!

Ken? Your Rebuttal?

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

> Graham Motzing Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> The snorkel is for real a bonerkiller though, I don't doubt that for a

> second

>

> Did you check your timing? Ditch any head gaskets? The iron hi-torq

> cylinders need porting usually to break 35. Does it have a pipe?

Checked timing. Has the thin 0.4mm head gasket. Low torque cylinder. No pipe-they're loud. But I don't want to break 35. I'd be happy with 30-35, on this bike.

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

no pipe or stock pipe?

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

Damn it's got to be louder no pipe.

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

> alex . Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> no pipe or stock pipe?

Shit, sorry, Ha! Stock pipe.

No [aftermarket] pipe... (edited)

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

in my experience, newports are the hi-torq cast iron cylinder, maybe it was swapped?

the aluminum cylinder bikes can be made to run faster out of the box, especially with 14 bing and the rectangular port intake

stock exhausts are often pretty plugged up, i'd definitely take it apart and make sure its free flowing if you plan on keeping it.

also check that the gearing hasn't been messed with, someone could have swapped motors and ended up with an odd ratio. 16x40 is my go-to for stock cylinder puchs.

definitely check the timing, the points cam nub wears down after 40 years and makes your timing retarded and makes you slow, that is the easiest thing to fix. Just re-set the gap to factory specs and swizzle your stator back and forth a couple degrees until it runs as fast as possible.

if swizzling the stator doesn't make a difference, go back to your carb settings.

a clogged pipe will make you run rich (removing the airbox will make you run leaner) so definitely check that out.

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

Good info, Graham. It may have been tampered with, but it didn't look like it by the look of the fasteners, but maybe it has had the head swapped. Who knows. I know it had a carb off a Magnum MK II, so who knows what else was done. I pulled the head, and it's all good there, both rings, piston, and cylinder walls look brand new. I have pulled the exhaust already, disassembled it, and cleaned it super well with oven cleaner, and put it back together. Last weekend I also changed and gapped the points @ .016" And then set timing~17-18 degrees, as far as the slots would allow. That helped a bit. The points cam shoe was definitely worn, and the contacts looked shitty, so I replaced them with another set. Gearing is currently 16x45, but I have a few rear sprockets laying around I can check.

Yesterday, I put together a 14 mm carb with a 222 atomizer, 64 jet, one band needle on second from bottom notch, and 24 slide. Rectangle 14mm intake. It still won't do over 25 with the air box, but does +30 without, but I gotta choke it with my finger a touch until it gets over 20, but then it takes off and pegs the speedo. I'll mess around more with the jetting and needle settings.

I also pulled the snorkel, and I'll try cutting the hole bigger to match the frame, and try running it that way. I'd like to keep it if I can, because it's quiet, but I gotta get better flow from it.

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

64 is too rich for that set up. Try down jetting to a 56 or 58, its not about "flow" as much as it is about getting the a/f mixture right.

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

> Daniel '' Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> 64 is too rich for that set up. Try down jetting to a 56 or 58, its not

> about "flow" as much as it is about getting the a/f mixture right.

I get that it's more about the mix than flow. I'll try down jetting for sure, because I can tell it's too rich. I put the carb together according to the specs on Myrons page. That said, I'm experimenting on both ends of the air/fuel spectrum, so I can see what happens.

If I understand right, If I'm too rich, I either need less fuel or more air. If I add more air to lean it out I'm also increasing CFM's, correct? But then the question is if I can burn that much volume without an expansion chamber.

If I can down jet and still get ~35 with the OG air box, then awesome! I'm trying whatever I can to get it at its peak performance. I appreciate the advice and suggestions from all of you, whether or not you agree with one another.

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

yeah usually with a pipe they will run a 62 or a 64 jet so stock should be quite a bit smaller.

i'd also set your timing back to the middle of the stator plate until you get your carb dialed in. You'll probably find the most power somewhere around 20-23 degrees, but what i was getting at is that timing changes wont respond when your carb jetting is off because it will all be bizarro world. carb changes also wont respond well when your timing is off. too retarded of timing can cause the bike to feel rich.

once you get the right main jet, you can start moving that needle clip around and get that dialed in.

the key to performance tuning any engine is to make sure you get the most bang for every stroke of the cylinder, not so much just about getting more air in and out, having the timing and jetting right on is the first step.

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

I'm confused now with how it's acting. I didn't plan on this being a repair related thread, but a discussion of air boxes and their Pro's and cons.

And yet, here we are. So I changed the jet from 64 to a 58. That's the smallest I have. It ran way worse, both with the air box and without. Couldn't get it to rev up at all. Bogged out big time. I pulled the plug and it looked dry and too light, I put the timing back where I started ~21 btdc and no change. It seems fuel starved. I double checked for air leaks at the crank seal and intake, but nada. Gonna upjet to a 68 and see what happens.

Re: Got Puch? Ditch Your OG Air Box. It's Full of Demon Vampires.

So, I put in a 68 jet, and it ran better than it has yet with the air box. Gave me 27mph. Without the air box, I had to feather the throttle a bit to get up to speed, but then it took off and buried the needle. But still not quite right. I guess I'll try a 66 next.

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