Gore is the Mopedders enemy.

It is common knowledge that Al Gore has stated that the internal combustion engine is the number one enemy in his view of correct environmental policy.

He will support all legislation to curtail the use of any internal combustion engines in the US.... (especially 2-strokes)

RE: Gore is the Mopedders enemy.

you have to admit mopeds aren't the best thing for the enviornment, at least not the way mine smokes, leaks and generally makes a mess.

dan

moped army

swarm and destroy

Gore is the mopedders friend

As all people know, mopeds use less gass then a normal internal combustion engine. This equates to less polution then would be put out by a person driving themselves around town in their automobile. I would think that Gore would be for more mopeds because of there efficiency and what not. I don't think that Bush would be for anything that sticks it to the oil companies.

Anyone who thinks that internal combustion engine is going to be in use forever is kidding themself. Oil will be drained well within our lifetimes. I'm not saying that I don't love my moped, but be realistic.

I've heard of diesle engine that runs on vegtable oil, maybe someone will find a way to convert ped engines to run on that. Electric motors might be another option in the near future, but who knows. I like the enviroment and thats part of the reason that I drive my moped.

Scary stuff

Ben

Gore is NOT the mopedders friend

Gore, like Bush, is a bourgeoise capitalist. They support business before anything else. The only difference is that Bush admits it and Gore wants to buy of the poor and oppressed w/ handouts. Period.

Now, about mopeds and the environment. Yes, older two-stroke engines are not very environment friendly. They consume less gasoline, but they produce higher emissions. And yes, we will run out of oil soon enough and then no more mopeds (or cars or whatever). But ... I think an alternative-fuel moped is MUCH more likely than a car.

Of course, mopeds also reduce traffic and parking space concerns. That means less paving over green space for parking lots and/or streets. That is another environmental factor to consider.

All in all, I think mopeds are better for the environment than cars, especially newer ones (like the 2000 Ciao!!!) which have excellent oil injection systems and less exhaust pollutants. But, unfortunately, I remember Gore going on record as being AGAIST mopeds. He prefers scooters (but still tows the GM industry line).

So ... vote Socialist if you want a true moped friend! ;-)

RE: Gore is NOT the mopedders friend

I can't wait to see retro styled alternative energy mopeds. Those would be sweet.

To bad that people are greedy, or communism would be quite exclent. But that is an impossible dream...

Ben

RE: Gore is NOT the mopedders friend

Yes, I'm NOT a communist. I'm a Socialist. There's a big difference. Actually, I'm a Socialist of non-Marxist extraction (more like Sainte-Simon or something like that). But yes, people can be greedy ... but that's because social arrangements corrupt them and promote greedy behavior, rather than helping others.

I'd also like to see retro-styled alternative fuel vehicles. That would ROCK!

They're all the enemy.

Reeperette /

They are politicians, and a politician is no friend of anyone but himself, and perhaps whomever is filling thier pockets, even then dubious.

With the amount of political wrangling, and the lock the oil companies have on the Govt, you need not worry.

What we shoulda done was take all that grain rotting in surplus and convert it to alcohol fuel, but that would break the stranglehold the oil companies have on the US Economy, and they will pay any price, buy any politician they must, to retain it.

Gasoline was originally used as a motor fuel because at the time, it was naught more than toxic waste, a byproduct of kerosene production.

To continue to use it when alcohol fuel and vegetable diesel are simple and inexpensive to make is patently ludicrous.

And yes, folks, a Moped will run on alcohol, I've done it.

Ree

RE: They're all the enemy.

Mark Jarvis /

What changes did you have to make to the carb settings to get your moped to run smooth on grain ethanol?

I have toyed with this idea. I figure you would also need to adjust the timing/ spark gap because ethanol combusts at a different rate from gasoline or diesel.

I know that a high enough proof alcohol would combust with standard settings, but I'm wondering how efficient could it be, and what would need to be done to accomplish this.

Mark Jarvis

'63 Honda 50

79 mpg last fueling!!!

RE: They're all the enemy.

I now know that the only friend of mopeders are themselfs. The back room deals of politics piss me off.

Would you please post something on how to get your ped to run on alcohol, that would be sweet just to be able to. I am also curious on the effect that would have on power output, engine were, and other such things. It sounds really cool.

Ben

RE: They're all the enemy.

I have never done this (change a gasoline engine over to alcohol)... but I have read about it a few times and have seen engines running on it at the dragraces.

From memory... you have to increase the amount of fuel flow through the carb by something like 40 or 50 %...(bigger jets)..and your fuel mileage goes down by that same %.. and you get something like a 50% increase in power...

I believe Brazil did or does run quite a large number of cars on alcohol .. and has the alcohol in pumps at "gas" stations just like gasoline.

If you really wanted to do this .. go buy a "Hotrod" magazine and look for an ad for books written about different fuels for race cars... the racers know what to do... there will be info in there on how to run race gasoline, nitrous oxide, nitro methane, and alcohol.. and all the special equipment you might need for any of them..(although the info will be for use in 4-strokes almost exclusively)

RE: They're all the enemy.

Reeperette /

Give me some time to look some stuff up, but in the meantime, feel free to peruse this link - http://www.brasil.terravista.pt/jenipabu/3786/enalcohol.htm

What started this, at least with me, was a semi-friendly discussion with a mopedmocker, as I calls em, and the conversation turned to fuel, so I made a bet with him -"This thing would run on anything from JP4 to cheap perfume"...which wound up with me draining the tank and pouring in a bottle of some $1.99 'perfume' which is mostly alcohol, and then riding around the block on it.

It ran poorly and the exhaust smelled awful funky, but it DID run, even so....

Later I started spiking my gas heavily with denatured Methyl Alcohol 91%.

Some drugstores carry this, but it's not really cost effective, considering how many bottles you'd have to buy at about $0.89ea to make 1 gallon.

(Do not Isopropyl for this, ok ? - but Iso cut with water in a spray bottle does make a handy de-icer for the hardcore winter rider.)

You'd have to upgrage your ignition, if possible, and definately go up one or two heat ranges in spark plug type, crossover four-bars are reccommended (tho not splitfire, due to all the bad reviews they've gotten.) since vaporised alcohol is slightly harder to ignite than gasoline.

More compression would help, but I do not see any easy way to go about that with a simple 2-stroke engine, of the type mopeds use...it may be possible, I dunno.

Bigger carb/jet, 2 or more sizes, because although all in all Alcohol is a more efficient fuel, you will need to deliver more of it to the system to produce the same amount of power.

Fuel/air mix, this would require some fine tuning, since you want to push more oxygen in there along with more fuel, in order to actually cause the vaporized liquid to 'explode' like it is supposed to.

Oil/Fuel mix, this one's tricky since it's hard to find a good two-stroke oil that will properly mix, but you can use the type they used in model aircraft, which seems to work better....Myself, I spiked the oil with a little Cox409 fuel to thin it out and since Cox409 is mostly methanol, it made damn sure I got good combustion too.

It can be done, and has been done, by more than one 'ped rider, but unless you have your own backyard still (unlikely) there just isn't any way to make it both legal and cost-effective without breaking the stranglehold the oil companies have on our society.

Also, just in case anyone's wonderin what the hell Vegetable-Diesel (or VegeDiesel) is, how it's made..etc.

You take some vegetable oil/grease, etc...like, say, what comes out of the fry vats at the burger joints every night, since there's plenty of that....add a little methanol, in a drum, and kick/pound/stir the drum for a while.....when the mix is right, you pour it into 5 gallon gans and viola !, VegeDiesel....you can pour it right into any diesel vehicle that exists today with no modification of the engine whatsoever, although I'd not reccommend pouring it in the same tank with petroleum diesel.

And check this...the crud it leaves at the bottom of the barrel ? it's glycerine soap, believe it or not, you can wash the vehicle with it, if you wanna.

Choke on a hairball, OPEC.

Ree.

RE: They're all the enemy.

sounds like a step on the way to the production of dynamite. i don't think we need the recipe for that though. with what you've already spoken i'm sure you know that too. glad you're on our side reep.

dave

RE: They're all the enemy.

I'll die befor the take my ped!!!!!!

Could we start a distillery?

Mark Jarvis /

If there is enough interest in the moped community, couldn't we, in major cities around the country, begin to set-up distilleries for the sole purpose of providing grain ethanol for moped use? What I am talking about is a long term plan to undermine the oil companies, OPEC, and the whole lot of those bastards. I love my moped, but not for the sole purpose that it runs on gas. I am serious. I would work hard for this cause. If I've learned anything from Nader, it's that it's never too early to start an informed citizens movement against corrupt corporations. If we obtained proper licence to brew and distill ethanol, which is something anything Appalachian hillbilly can do, my apologies to any SE'ters out but the only person I know who makes moonshine is a good old boy from Alabama, we could sell it to mopeder's who had made the conversions. The individual distilleries could be set up independently, and run like a co-op.

Eventually each distillery/fuel station could have a shop to do conversions (to run on ethanol, I know I know, you are saying duh, but I just thought I'd say it), repairs etc.

If I knew I could routinely obtain high% ethanol at a reasonable price, I would convert my moped and my car to ethanol as quickly as possible.

Feel free to kick the hell out of this idea, and I will try and defend it as best I can. If I win, you all have to move to Portland and help me set up.

Deal?

O.K. Good.

RE: Gore is NOT the mopedders friend

the idea of communism is wonderful, but has no real-world application that could work. one of the next best would be something that is actually plausable; liberitarians. less government, no income tax, less legislation on the citizen. the freedom to do (within reason) what we will with our own lives.

RE: Could we start a distillery?

that is a sweet idea. my sister lives in portland..... i would not mind moving there if this took off.... really..... Ralph Nader, right on! Thank god for this website!!! (hey it is thanksgiving, isn't it?)

RE: Gore is NOT the mopedders friend

don ruggles /

Hey! Can't you imagine that big dork Algore trying to keep a bike upright?First glimpse of smoke he saw he'd faint dead away anyway.What a maroon!(That's moron for you in palm beach co.)

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