New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

Just wanted to introduce myself, I've been a member here for some years, and finally actually own a ped. Picked up this '80 Grande for my stepson, and having a blast getting it all cleaned up and back in order.

This may not be the right place to ask, but I got it running last night after getting a new coil from treatland.

It runs and rides pretty well. But I have a huge deadspot after about mid throttle.

I will say, and I kinda assume this is my issue, that my muffler is definitely not stock. I kinda cobbled together a short pipe and muffler from my chainsaw, to get it running, and not piss off every neighbor I have. Lol

I checked the points today, they are at .015". Plugs new. Coil is new.

I have no idea what jets are in it. I assume they are stock, but is there any way to tell?

Anyway, just wanted to say Hi, and hopefully gain some knowledge.

-Jrod

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Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

That's a gorgeous bike! The stock jet on these bikes varies depending on which speed model you have. On the top side of the carb there is a clamp section that holds the carb on to the engine. There is usually a number there that tells you the size of the carb.

A 12.7 came with a 39 jet. The 12.10 had a 45, and the 12.12 had a 49. But the only way to find out what size jet is in there is to actually look at it. The easiest way is to gently lean the bike on its side, and then remove the float bowl from underneath. Of course, this assumes that you've already removed the skid plate. I always remove the skid plate because they are more trouble than they're worth. Two screws hold the float Bowl on the bottom of the carb remove them and you'll instantly have a view of your jet. You can remove it to get a better view.

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

clean bike, id say screw the neighbors n get the proma, lotsa fun. the dead spot is probably your variator moving lugging the motor, read up on how that works. im messing w a bravo right now w drilled out 4gr and it still luggs, stock is 9.

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

Thank you for the advice!! I do need to read up on the variator. I'm pretty mechanical, but I'm not very familiar with how they work. So I'll do some homework.

I cleaned the carb out pretty good when I first got it, and I know exactly where the jet is now that you said it. I had it out and cleaned it. Shoulda paid more attention to it. Lol

By dead spot though, it's not my speed so much, as the motor bogging down as if it's not getting enough fuel/air mixture to continue to rev.

However, if I gradually give it throttle it does seem to wind up a little better. So maybe you are right.

Any suggestions on where to read up on it? I also noticed something in the owners manual PDF I have about oil in the rear end, and a filler hole bolt. But I'm not sure I know what I'm looking for.

Thanks again dudes!! And thanks for the compliments. It really cleaned up a lot better than I expected. Especially for 300 bucks. Has less than 500 miles on it too. I think it's safe to say I scored. Hehe (edited)

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

So I pulled the jet out. Doesn't seem to say anything on it. The carb is a 12.12. It also appears to have been fooled with at some point. I'll post another pic to explain what I mean. Also. Let me know if this isn't in the right forum. I just realized there was a repair section.. woops.

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Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

So I gather it pedal starts and idles just fine? And eventually after the dead area feathering the throttle finally gets u up to "wide open throttle " ? And perhaps I missed it but is that between 25 and 30 mph??

If so then here is my suggestions and yes I have two Vespas a grande and a bravo. :

Do get a new pipe please ; I can't tell if your flat spot is due to the length of header and the actual specs of what expansion chamber u have. I'm not saying that what u rigged up isn't tuneable BUUUUUT , THE Sha carbureator on a Vespa has a preset mid section of throttle positions is hard of not impossible to tune. The Sha carb doesn't have a needle with clips and a selection of needles and emulsion tubes etc. So get a pipe that is known to work with a vespa!! That's why Pat suggested a proma. Then at least u can get a bit of a.predictable result because the guys who designed the proma knew it was going on a Vespa with a 12:12 Sha !!! Then get maybe a couple of jets from 52 -60 and tune it to one of those. Do yourself a major favor and stay away from variator mods until u dial in what I suggest. On a stock grande with a proma u will get a wot of 30-33 mph. Stay with that for a minimum of six months. Pm me at any time if u want to firther discuss your most beautiful find.

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

Thanks so much Mark!

I want to say off the rip, you guys are very helpful!!

I'm having some issues with idle for sure. I've also noticed running it without an air filter (I know I know) it seems to have much more power.

As far as starting. It seems to start pretty well. But it takes some peddling to get goin.

You're absolutely right about the pipe. I ran a couple two stroke four wheelers back in the day and I remember how temperamental they were when changing exhaust. I have a stock pipe coming from treatland.tv as we speak. So I'm hoping that solves a lot of the issue here. But I am just trying to cover my bases first.

Also, does the air filter come with anything inside it besides the little mesh metal piece between the carb and air box? Because that's all mine seems to have, with the grey Plastic air box and white cover on it.

As far as the variator, I put a topic into the repair forums. Im new to these so I'm not sure at all what I should be looking at. Just want it working well.

This is mostly for my stepson, so I'm not really concerned with it going faster or anything yet. I just want it to run like it's supposed to.

Also where do you guys purchase jets?

Thanks again guys! We're pretty proud of it. But the compliments sure do feel good. :)

P.s. this place rocks!

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

Stock pipe isn't going to make u happy. It's designed to hold back the engine from the pipes acoustic resonance.acoustoc resonance is synomomous with "hitting the pipe ". U can read bell's book on two stroke tuning. It's the bible. Use the proma and get a airbox. The mallosi will work fine.

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

Don't kit this bike before my suggestions.

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

theres a nice write up in the wiki on variators n how they work. taking off the air filter n box n it takes off means its running rich.

i run one mesh n drill a bunch of holes in the plastic box, w that ghetto hogged out sha n proma yr looking at 58-64 main .treats got em, return the stock pipe for a proma

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

Jet looks like a 49 written on it even though it is blurry. The numbers are just punched on there. Also looks like it was messed with. Carb certainly was. And looks like some rough work. However it doesn't look like it's so bad that it won't let your bike run. It's possible that they screwed up the carb in the process of trying to open it up but probably not.

If you're planning for it to be for your stepson I wouldn't do anything that makes it different from stock. If it's in good working order a hundred percent stock it should be smooth and ride nicely. You shouldn't have any hesitation you shouldn't have any weird shifting or anything. I say go back to 100% stock first so you know what this bike will be like when you upgrade if you ever do. If it's truly for your stepson then you shouldn't upgrade at all. When brand new the bike ran nicely and accelerated smoothly. Clean and repair properly to stock and it will ride perfectly nicely again.

If you're actually having trouble with some shifting what you need to do is take the variator apart and clean it and lubricate it properly. The rear variator can be cleaned up and made nice as well. If it is in good working order, it should need no adjustment.

When you order a new jet, which I recommend, I'd also get the gasket and o-ring set for this carb.

Another good move is to replace the crank seal. If the issues you're having are not related to the variator and are actually caused by the janked carb and air leaks. Which is quite possible, the carb gaskets and crank seal will help a lot.

Oh, and getting a stock pipe for this should be cheap and easy. If you post in the buy/sell for one I bet you can get one cheap. You do need to make sure it is the right one as they are not all the same. It should be the longer chamber since you have the 12.12 carb.

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

Ike I appreciate that. I do indeed want to keep it stock as much as possible. I did get the grande specific stock pipe on order.

I was worried about that carb, and the condition of the main jet. It didn't have any sort of exhaust on it at all, and I'm wondering if the original owner wallered it out and took the pipe off completely. And possibly drilled a whole in the jet?

Story goes from my coworker that I bought this from, that an old man had it and only used it to pack deer out of the woods when hunting. So it's hard to say what he did, and , well he's dead now. So unfortunately I can't ask.

I think I'll just order an assortment of jets and a new air box/filter and let it be Gabe's (my stepson) little project to change them until he's satisfied with the performance.

It's a learning experience for both of us. So I really appreciate all of you guys suggestions.

I think the main thing here is, that we are having a helluva lot of fun!!!!

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

> Jerod Ingels Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

>

> I think the main thing here is, that we are having a helluva lot of

> fun!!!!

That's exactly what it's all about . ;)

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

so, did some more tinkerin and cleanin this weekend.

Heres what Ive noticed, hopefully you guys can give me some advice.

I cleaned the carb up again, and i do believe there was more crud in there. It will idle a lot better now on the stand. however.

First issue. It wants to die if im on the brake, or stopped at a stop sign. (not cool) but idles great when on the stand and the wheel is able to free spin. Could this be a variator issue, or something else?

Second issue. Still a super dead "bogggggggg" point after i get to about 15-20mph. Its like i shut off the fuel or spark, but when i roll back the throttle it perks up agian.

Third, if i put the air filter box on, it runs like complete shit. So i ran around the block a couple times without any filter at all, and it runs decent up unitl that 15-20mph range, but its spraying gas out of the carb the whole time, at idle and even more when wound up.

So, that sounds like its running rich correct? Now that im realizing someone jacked with the carb in their shed, im wondering if the jet has been drilled out, or the copper tube with the little hole in it (jet tube? i dunno) has been fooled with to the point it doesnt run right.

Any suggestions are welcome. I dont want to spend 100 bucks on a jet variety, and even though Ike mentioned it looked like a 49, i honestly cant see any numbers on it, and he was only seeing the best picture i could take of it, i cant say for certain that it hasnt been just drilled out or something.

I just want this thing to run smooth, stop well, and look cool (covered) for my stepson. lol

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

As much as I encourage working with what you have , by the looks of those carb pics , I'd see about a new carb , maybe used . As long as it hasn't been through who knows what .

The wanting to die sounds like maybe a clutch issue or some such . But , I'm not the one to advise you on that topic .

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

Most of your running issues can be logically traced to the carb, but a new carb is not a guaranteed fix as those are also symptoms of other issues.

If you run a stock pipe, then a 49 jet is fine. If you got the techno stock-like from treats, you probably need to upjet a little. 54 would be too much, likely.

I'd buy a new carb. There is a sale on.

Dying with the brakes pulled can be the rear bulb. The brake light (not running light) is part of the ignition circuit.

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

Bad Cadillac™ /

That carb is shot and can't be trusted, get a new one with a new plastic intake seal. You will not look back and will know then good carb and no air leak at the intake.

If you go used carb, get a brand new plastic intake seal for sure for it.

Until then, it probably will never run correctly.

Most of your running issues will be cleared up with a new carb. (edited)

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

Dirty30 Dillon /

Yeah, that carb is done. Dispose of and replace.

Without a solid carb, a proper exhaust (whether you go stock, Sito +++ City, or a chamber of some kind), and ensuring that your trans is functioning properly, it's near impossible to advise.

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

So. I agree with you guys on a new carb. However I'm a pretty stubborn person, so I'm gonna try some things before I give in and just buy a new on.

The pipe I have in the way us from treatland, is stock for ciao, and all other models. (pic below).

So with that said. I really want to try a 49 jet. Is this something I have to order specifically for a del 12.12 carb? Or could I ask for one at my local small engine shop?

Here's why I say I want to try this. Air is not my issue. Fuel is. It has to be running far too rich, as, well. I did some experiments today. I took my shop vac, and basically used it like a turbo charger. I tried revving the engine, and blowing air at the carb, in the carb, near the carb. And at a certain spot, it came to life a good bit actually. Which is telling me I've got way too much fuel dumping into the carb, and even though I don't have an air box on it. It just can't suck Enough air thru that little hole to keep up. Right?

It really seems as if it's kinda on "choke" all the time. Again rich correct?

Anyway. Like I said. I know I could just buy a new carb. But what's the fun in that. Haha

Also, I did some painting and cleaning, and got her looking pretty sweet I think. I also popped the tube, well, actually the tube came thru the dry rotted tire and then popped. Lol. Soooo. On to getting tires.

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Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

If you are putting in a treats order, you should grab this spring loaded float needle and use it either in that carb or in the new carb you get. The rubber tips always degrade with time, so the stock one you have is likely not working great, and the springy one is a definite upgrade that can help with a range of carb tuning problems

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

Come to think about it. I don't remember even removing the old one to clean it. What a putz. Guess I better look at that huh!!

I'll grab a new one for sure. Thanks for pointing out my stupidity, I actually do appreciate it! Haha.

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

When you remove the float bowl to clean the carb the float needle should just slide out too. you can take that opportunity to clean/polish the fuel inlet that it seats against as well by using a q-tip and some metal polish on the end of a drill :)

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

Yup, even though I don't sound like it, I've been cleaning up hunk of junk small engines with my pops (the Grand Master) since I was old enough to hold a toothbrush and a bowl of kerosene, and making them run.

Hence why I can't believe I forgot this step, and why I'm not just giving into buying new everything. We lived in the boonies , and before the internet couldn't just buy a new part, so taking the time to make things work is just second nature.

Thanks again everyone!

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

That’s the moped spirit!

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

Yes. Buy a 49 jet. That pipe should work with 49 jet. Hard to find outside of a moped shop.

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

Only reason I mentioned it, was the local mower/chainsaw shop seems to have a lot of random stuff. But if these are specific to delorto 12.12s I'll just order one. Thanks dudes!!

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

> Jerod Ingels Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Only reason I mentioned it, was the local mower/chainsaw shop seems to

> have a lot of random stuff. But if these are specific to delorto 12.12s

> I'll just order one. Thanks dudes!!

If you have a set of jet bits , just solder the jet you have and drill it to 49 .

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

That's really weird. I was thinking the exact same thing earlier but didn't know there were actually jet bits, and I didn't have a clue as to what size to use.

Will look into it. Thanks!!

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

cool.

Re: New moped owner! 1980 Vespa Grande Super deluxe

Bad Cadillac™ /

The carb is shot because it's been drilled, hacked and bored which is responsible for your running issues.

If you want to spend time trying to tune it, go ahead but I bet the person before you who hacked it tried the same and gave up. You may end up beating your head against a wall trying to get it to run right with it.

You need a new one so you know where you are starting from. Using that hacked carb is going to result in spending time on something that will probably end up being a waste of time.

Get a new carb, get it running right and then spend the time elsewhere on the bike.,

Trust me, you will not look back once you have a new carb.

Do not be stubborn anymore, get a carb and then we can help you better. A stock Grande with it's stock carb would not yield a rich condition.

That carb you have has been severely hacked up by someone that probably had no idea with what they were doing and will probably never run right with it. (edited)

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