New thread for the Orange box cdi

Decided to start a new thread in hopes of someone picking up on this idea and spread some well needed info. Long story short Rebel posted a high tension coil from jmpbparts.com that cost an arm an leg ( https://www.jmpbparts.com/new/ignition-coil-vec-puch.html) so in moped fashion I decide to buy a cheap version on eBay that cost way less ( https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F182971478374 )

Everything bolts right up to an e50 perfectly and the high tension coil supplied Works perfect on a point set up but when using the orange box in place of points the timing becomes way off. Is there any way I could check timing without starting the bike ( I though static but no?). Maybe someone has already done this please share some info.Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/17 09:58PM by countryboy1.

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Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

how do your lights get power?

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

This is only for day riding at the moment, i do believe the cdi can be mounted external making room for a light coil.

That's a later story though at the moment I would happy to see it run.

My next attempt to check timing will be with a drill attached to the flywheel bolt with a timing light in my other hand.Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/17 10:33PM by countryboy1.

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

> Rocco Taco Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

>

> My next attempt to check timing will be with a drill attached to the

> flywheel bolt with a timing light in my other hand.

That would probably be the quickest way to find out just where it's firing .

Just thinking ahead ... Are the coil and the box able to switched or are they pretty much locked where they are on the plate ?

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

> P D Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Rocco Taco Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> >

>

> > My next attempt to check timing will be with a drill attached to the

>

> > flywheel bolt with a timing light in my other hand.

>

> That would probably be the quickest way to find out just where it's

> firing .

>

> Just thinking ahead ... Are the coil and the box able to switched or are

> they pretty much locked where they are on the plate ?

Yes you can switch them around but I can not run the spark wire like that. ( its like a spitting image of a puch stator its so funny) I do believe there is more this Stihl 070 chain saw has for us in the form of parts.

did Stihl drink with puch? I think they definitely shared info, so many parts cross overEdited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/17 10:57PM by countryboy1.

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

Stihl and Puch both used Bosch for many of their ignitions. The NOS Bosch points on my shelf lists Stihl as one of their applications along with a few dozen other brands.

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

Okay I need to firgure out this orange box to be honest it makes no sense, how does it work it has no relation to the flywheel, how does it know it's time in space? Does it or it just firing when it can? if the timing marks appear stable then this might work

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

> Rocco Taco Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Okay I need to firgure out this orange box to be honest it makes no

> sense, how does it work it has no relation to the flywheel, how does it

> know it's time in space? Does it or it just firing when it can? if the

> timing marks appear stable then this might work

The box fires off the coils signal . In other words , as the magnet(s) pass the coil and gets 'charged' , the box gets its signal to fire .

Hopefully there's enough adjustment in the plate . If not , then you'll have to move the flywheel on the crank . You shouldn't need a woodruff key if there is a good taper match between the flywheel and the crank .

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

> P D Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Rocco Taco Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > Okay I need to firgure out this orange box to be honest it makes no

>

> > sense, how does it work it has no relation to the flywheel, how does

> it

>

> > know it's time in space? Does it or it just firing when it can? if the

>

> > timing marks appear stable then this might work

>

> The box fires off the coils signal . In other words , as the magnet(s)

> pass the coil and gets 'charged' , the box gets its signal to fire .

>

> Hopefully there's enough adjustment in the plate . If not , then you'll

> have to move the flywheel on the crank . You shouldn't need a woodruff

> key if there is a good taper match between the flywheel and the crank .

Yes sir it will have to be run un-keyed probably, also the woodruff key is just there For ease of servicing, it's not to hold the flywheel on in any manner. I don't have an attachment for the drill, will go to hardware store tomorrow. I wanted wait to get my new overalls ( there're lined for cold weather) before I do any more testing but I cant wait. Il bare the cold in search of something new.

Shout out PD, I just wanna thank u dawg for sticking with me and posting. If it's successful & more duders start running these set-ups thank pd too

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

Double Trouble Dan /

If the timing is close , can't you just extend the screw slots with a rotary tool or even a file . Its pretty soft metal.

By the way , I make my drill adapters out of old socket extensions . Just cut off the part that goes on the ratchet . it will fit in a 1/2" chuck . If that is too big , just grind it down.

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Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

Baron Von Hamilton /

I would time this thing with out a woodruf key for sure. Make a mark on the flywheel, find where it fires, make a mark on cases, take flywheel off set crank position to whatever(I would probably start at 1.5mm BTDC) and then line the marks up and clock it down.

I would probably replace the internal HT coil with a external one and put a lighting coil in its place. Lights are a good thing.

Pretty cool if it gives good constistant spark and lasts longer than a week. Would make a nice cheep replacement to the Picard Brown box setup.

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

> Baron Von Hamilton Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

replace the internal HT coil with a external one .

>

Why ?

It might be better to bring the orange CDI box out and use the space for a lighting coil . Definitely cheaper .

@ Rocco Taco ,

Not a problem . Glad I can help .Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/17 10:40AM by pdcomm.

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

Baron Von Hamilton /

I was under the impression that the orange box is the trigger and CDI coil in one. I guess I would have to see it and figure out of if they both have to be internal to power it. Are the coil and trigger built into the HT coil?

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

> Baron Von Hamilton Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I was under the impression that the orange box is the trigger and CDI

> coil in one. I guess I would have to see it and figure out of if they

> both have to be internal to power it. Are the coil and trigger built

> into the HT coil?

As I wrote a couple posts up :

"The box fires off the coils signal . In other words , as the magnet(s) pass the coil and gets 'charged' , the box gets its signal to fire ."

The box could be in your kitchen and the coil in your garage , if the connecting wire were long enough . ;)

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

Went to the hardware store & got what I needed. will be testing tonight again hopefully, just gotta do some chores first and to be honest trying to avoid go back in the shed until I get my new overalls.Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/17 01:14PM by countryboy1.

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Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

I have a more than a complete set of the drill to socket adapters . I use them often .

They save a lot of time and energy .

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

> P D Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> I have a more than a complete set of the drill to socket adapters . I

> use them often .

>

> They save a lot of time and energy .

To be honest Im probably going to write on this adapter when done with it (bad and stupid and only to be used on a decompressed cylinder.) don't us these to started the engine they are horrible for that! I use to do that when I was really young and stupid

I like hand tools, an old farmer once let me work with him on his tractors, & he only used hand tools. never actually said to me why but I think he was worried about me cross threading all his bolts.Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/17 01:40PM by countryboy1.

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

Baron Von Hamilton /

> P D Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > Baron Von Hamilton Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > I was under the impression that the orange box is the trigger and CDI

>

> > coil in one. I guess I would have to see it and figure out of if they

>

> > both have to be internal to power it. Are the coil and trigger built

>

> > into the HT coil?

>

> As I wrote a couple posts up :

>

> "The box fires off the coils signal . In other words , as the magnet(s)

> pass the coil and gets 'charged' , the box gets its signal to fire ."

>

> The box could be in your kitchen and the coil in your garage , if the

> connecting wire were long enough . ;)

I get that. I was just unsure if the box is just the box and does not need the magnets in any way. That being the case I would definitely pull that orange box out and pop a light coil there. Hope this works out.

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

That's actually not wierd at all that's just a black cover to protect everything.

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

> Baron Von Hamilton Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> > P D Wrote:

>

> > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> > > Baron Von Hamilton Wrote:

>

> >

>

> > > -------------------------------------------------------

>

> >

>

> > > I was under the impression that the orange box is the trigger and

> CDI

>

> >

>

> > > coil in one. I guess I would have to see it and figure out of if

> they

>

> >

>

> > > both have to be internal to power it. Are the coil and trigger

> built

>

> >

>

> > > into the HT coil?

>

> >

>

> > As I wrote a couple posts up :

>

> >

>

> > "The box fires off the coils signal . In other words , as the

> magnet(s)

>

> > pass the coil and gets 'charged' , the box gets its signal to fire ."

>

> >

>

> > The box could be in your kitchen and the coil in your garage , if the

>

> > connecting wire were long enough . ;)

>

> I get that. I was just unsure if the box is just the box and does not

> need the magnets in any way. That being the case I would definitely pull

> that orange box out and pop a light coil there. Hope this works out.

The box has no sensor of any sort on it the only thing I noticed was a ground wire running out of underneath that grounds off at the bolting mounts. Everything is up in the air right now anyone could be right lets just see if it will run firstEdited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/17 03:32PM by countryboy1.

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

Omg it fucking worked it fucked worked. This is ground braking no more points no more condenser and for $15 teen dollars wtf.

Timing was restarted like I thought, got my timing light and drill and made random marks till I found where it was firing ( got it on the second try*) used the corn timming tape and put 10mm at the firing marK. I then line the crank up at tdc and lined up the case mark with 0mm on the tape, Running very conservative just in case.

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

Baron Von Hamilton /

Cool. What flywheel number is it? Just Incase it matters.

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

> Baron Von Hamilton Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> Cool. What flywheel number is it? Just Incase it matters.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Just in case u can't see it #:0212124043Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/17 07:32PM by countryboy1.

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Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

So it runs ... Excellent .

Maybe I missed it , but do you have a pic of the inside of your flywheel ?Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/17 07:51PM by pdcomm.

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

No I do not but will take one if wanted. I'm pretty sure it will work with any e50 flywheel. Now to mount the box outside!

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

Baron Von Hamilton /

Thanks dude. The brown Picard ones only work with certain flywheels. Idk if this was the same case or not. Figured if I try it I would use the same # flywheel just Incase

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

So since the orange box cdi is working could you use this one^^ and attach a light coil the the open spot? Hmmm

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

> Rocco Taco Wrote:

> -------------------------------------------------------

> No I do not but will take one if wanted. I'm pretty sure it will work

> with any e50 flywheel. Now to mount the box outside!

Yes , please post a pic of the inside of the flywheel . That along with the flywheel # should answer any future question on that subject .

Re: New thread for the Orange box cdi

Baron Von Hamilton /

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I am board.....

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