ciao tranny transplant. part II

well, i got the bravos today.. they are actually in pretty nice shape (considering it was 2 identical blue bravos for 100$).. i begn the variator transplant on the Ciao about 2 hours ago. a couple thoughts / questions..

should i just use the whole real wheel from the bravo instead of just changing out the hub? my thinking is this: the bravo has a 16" wheel and the ciao has a 17" wheel.. wouldnt having a smaller rear wheel add to my low end on the ciao? i may end up swapping the hubs out anyways since the chrome on the bravo wheel is kinda in really bad shape... (the other bravo actually has a grande rear wheel for some reason.. and im fairly sure emily doesnt want a mag on the rear and a spoke wheel on the front).. any opinions?

also.. i took the cover off the rear hub.. the gears all appear to be in order and in good shape. there (thankfully) was fluid in it (which is now all over my pants, face and garage floor). if i were to switch out the hubs, how do i get the whole thing out? do i have to take the rear chain sprocket off the other side? it didnt seem to want to come out. alternately, could i just use the longer shaft from the bravo hub? or is the gearing different as well?

the variator and clutch hub (pulleys especially) were in pretty rough shape.. as was the inside of the clutch hub. very rusty and greasy. nasty. i used steel wool and about 2 gallons of Elbow Grease (tm).. they are now good to go.

any other info you all wanna add?? (aside from the lenghty last posts on this topic.. i can refer back to all that, of course)

i want to get this rolling tomorrow.. thanks!

(ps: if any of you need patrs fomr a Brave (especially frames??) i have lots of them now.. the things i will be keeping are the battery boxes / covers, headlights, one speedo cable, and maybe a few more isolated items. both the seats are in PERFECT shape and the bodies are very good, as well...)

oh! the other cool thing?? they BOTH had the original tool kits! with spark plug, tools, etc.. they were still wrapped in the foam with rubber bands around them! that rocks.

ok, im going to sleep now...

-casey

Re: ciao tranny transplant. part II

Casey,

I tried to describe the hub removal process in my last post about this. It is usually pretty stubborn, but you have to loosen the hex nut that is behind the freewheel sprocket. I bought a pair of channel lock (the brand) pliers that have blue handles and a notch in each jaw. The points on the hex nut fit right in those notches, and the pliers are thin enough to get in between the sprocket and the hub. They will allow you to get enough torque to loosen the nut. Once you have loosened the nut, the freewheel/sprocket will unscrew. Then you slip the mounting bracket off and that will allow the whole hub (brakes and all) to slide out the other side.

I'd just swap the hub. The Bravo uses a fatter tire than the Ciao and might look funny. I don't think the low end will be noticeably better. You will gain enough just with the variator addition.

You have to use the longer shaft, because the Ciao shaft is made to hold only the driven pulley. The Bravo shaft has to hold the whole clutch assembly. Once you've cleaned the clutch, it should work fine.

Let me know if you need any other help. If need be, I could send my phone number and can talk you through any difficult spots.

Chris S

Re: ciao tranny transplant. part II

hey chris.. thanks alot! thats way nice of you to offer phone support... im going downstairs now to work on it and ill let you know if i have any more problems.. thanks for the tips!

casey

tranny transplant a success!!!

hey chris and zippy (and eveyrone else who assisted)...

just finished converting the ciao from a cingle speed to a variable speed! the process was fairly painless.. )

it has all the low end ever hoped for now... pulls almost as well as the grande. not quite as well.. but pretty good. definitely good enough.

however.. after running for a little while.. it kinda died out. however still idled fine. when i give it full throttle, it sputters.. like its "missing"... THEN, if i left the rear end almost all the way up (until the bike was near vertical).. it picks up again.. ?? checked the plug and it was pretty black.

i am running a proma circuit exhaust (big expansion exhaust), dellorto 13/13 carb, and malossi performance airbox.

does this sound like the float is sticking? im pretty sure thats what it is.. ill give the carb a good cleaning maybe tonight. im running late for a dinner appointment.

thanks again everyone! emily is going to be sooo happy.

casey

Re: tranny transplant a success!!!

ps: i did put a new plug in already and it had the same symptoms.

casey

Re: tranny transplant a success!!!

Hey casey glad it all worked out for you I picked up a 1980 indian today that looks and runs good let me know it you might be interested in it. Kevin

Re: tranny transplant a success!!!

hey kevin! yeah, can you send me some pictures of it??

and thanks again for hooking me up with those bravos... it totally worked out for me. sorry max didnt end up buying anytihng. we are gonna try to talk him into buying those concords...

ill talk to you soon, man...

casey

Re: ciao tranny transplant. part II

DOESNT ANYONE CARE!!!??

sniff sniff

casey

Re: ciao tranny transplant. part II

I CARE! That's awesome! A nice light ciao with a variator! ROKK!

I haven't been watching the forums as dilligently lately, because I just started a new job. (I mow lawns for the government :)

I work for the parks and recreation dept.

Re: ciao tranny transplant. part II

Congratualtions Casey. Sorry I have superbusy getting moped orders filled . Cranked out 6 thsi apst week, 4 Grandes and 2 Ciaos, so I haven't had much time to browse the forum.

Anyway that was a cool thing you did. I should hire you as my Chief Mechanic. People pay $50 + an hour out here for moped service and repair.

Re: ciao tranny transplant. part II

Dan Webber Kastner /

I care. concords eh?

dan

Re: ciao tranny transplant. part II

thanks. oh, and yep. concords.

Re: ciao tranny transplant. part II

Casey,

Sorry, I've been away from the computer for two days. Congrats on the tranny change. As I told you, it is pretty straightforward. Now we need to find you the proper side cover. Did you end up using channel lock pliers like I described to loosen the freewheel sprocket? Also, what belt did you end up using?

Regarding the plug fouling, it does sound like a sticking float. It may also have to do with the larger carb on that bike. The Grande has a larger induction chamber in the crankshaft than the one on the Ciao. The crank will therefore deliver fuel more slowly to the combustion chamber, and needs slower air flow. This is why the Grande uses a SHA 12.12 and the Ciao uses a 12.10. By going to 13 mm carb, you increased the size of the venturi by 30 percent! The proma exhaust and malossi airbox also allow much freer air flow. What size jet is in that carb? I doubt it is the problem, but it is worth checking. It sounds more like a float or needle valve problem.

Zippy, is my reasoning sound here?

Chris S

hey chris s!

hey! i actually found out the problem.. my plug wire was barely touching the coil.. so when i lifted it forward, it made more of a solid connecting to the coil. i just bent the connecter a little to allow a more snug fit... i have been riding it most of the night. =] also, i used the 4L-380 belt.. but i also ordered a variable speed ciao belt from fabio.. and i put that on tonight instead... its a little better fit. than the 4L-380.. or maybe i just think it is because its an original Pirelli belt. ?? hehe...

also... about the side cover. is there ANY way you would think of selling me yours? i have tons of stuff i could trade you (just got 2 Bravos for parts) .. including a brand new, still in the original plastic piaggio wrapping, standard Ciao seat (with the square post)... the side cover is the last thing emily needs on her ciao to be complete.. i totally understand if you dont want to part with it... fabio didnt have the original ones. he said he has some ones that will work.. but they are a military greenish-grey color and more "angular".. and he doesnt have the other side to make a matching set.. :(

what do you think???

oh, and thanks for all your help on this project! i totally appreciate it!

casey

Re: hey chris s!

oh! also.. yeah, i used my channel locks to get the sprocket off.. and you were very right about it being torqued on there pretty tight. =]

Re: hey chris s!

Casey,

Let me think about it. I sold one of my Ciaos last week, so I might consider it. I need to get a confirmed answer from the kid I sold the Ciao to last year. He expressed interest in the transplant, and I promised my spare to him first (I think I told you this story before). If he doesn't want it, we can talk.

BTW, I have a ton of NOS parts for Vespa mopeds, so if you need anything else, it never hurts to ask.

Chris S

Re: hey chris s!

hey chris! thats awesome.. thanks alot. but actually, dont sweat it. zippy happened to find an extra thet he had and im swapping him a bravo seat for that and a speedo cable. i appreciate you thinking about it though.. =]

i would actually be interested in some battery box covers if you have them? i actually only need one (and the knob) as i am putting some on my grande for storage. i have 2 boxes and one cover...

do you also happen to have a seat (or maybe a seat cover even) for a Grande? my seat has a rip in it and i dont want to recover it so it wil still have the piaggio logo on the back.

-casey

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