MOPED ARMY

as far as building a self-sufficient car (which would be a perpetual motion machine), the laws of thermodynamics make it impossible, being that it must produce as much or more energy than it uses, but heat energy is always lost due to friction. Although, turbines and wheel-mounted alternators may help to conserve energy. On the other hand, they may produce so much drag and friction that the vehicle requires more energy.

My $0,000,000.02

Duck,

I think you'd do better by covering all the exposed surfaces with solar cells to gererate your extra power. They wouldn't add that much mass and could be accounted for in other areas. As well, instead of alternators on the wheels, adding flywheels that would act as brakes (when you DO decide you want to stop) to capture the engery of the spinning wheels and convert that motion into electricity. Combine this with a high temperature, ceramic, hydrogen burning engine, and there would be virually no pollution from this vehicle, not counting the pollution from its manufacture.

I read about a man from the southern US that had a car which theoretically ran off of water. He filled his "gas tank" with water, had battery packs and solar cells to electrolize the water into H and O2. They were then both pumped into two different cylinders and mixed and burned in a regular engine. It took a few days to get enough fuel and it would only run for a few minutes until it ran out. Not very efficient if you ask me, but a hell-of-an idea.

Richard

the honda uses a motor to spin an alternator which charges the batter and provides extra power in heavy acceleration ron.

that cool but im thinking what if you want to eliminate the engine...

i htink say you have two batteries right.. and say it takea litle form one batter to start the vhicle into motion from a start and it takes the other bit of that first battery to run the accesories... now a regular alternator produces about 14 volts to keep the battery charged to run thing.. if you had some 24 volt battiers and say 2 alternators.. instead of just one..

you might use one for the batter that is mostly used to keep it xcharged then you have an extra battery incase the first gets low and you also have a whole nouther charging system to insure that the second battery is never low and always there for back up..... with 2 alternator... while one gets low they both will charge it up and then finish charging the secondary battery... it would seem like this would be a real solution. I know there is alot of other things that produce heat and fricition which is energy loss.. I understand that..

but it also sseems like if you produce more engery then you use you shouldn't ever be short.

It's just like say.. i dunno.. a windmill makkes a whole hell of alot of enegery right.. well sure it loses some but it makes so much more then is used.

also the common alternator.. it makes 14 volts if it is working correctly and is charging a 12 volt system.. so as long as your alternator is working right and producing more energy then whats being used.. then youll never have any problems.

im syure like everyone says a purpetual motion car is impossible... well i don;t think what im talking about is purpetual motion...

your just producing more power then being used.. and that compensates for the power you need and the lost power...

it wont last forever.. eventualy the batteries will die.. or need water.... and every time you stop will use twice as much battery power then to keep you in motion... and the alternators should do this. I would think the battery power plus alternator power should be enough to luanch a car... then once the car is cruising the power strain is relived the alternators can charge in order to get ready fo rhte next stop and go.

I dunno.. i guess if it was doable someone would have done it.

i just don't agree.... an alternator uses no fucking energy... but it makes tons.. a windmill uses wind.. not its own energy.. but it makes tons. the alternator wouldn't have to produce enrergy to run it.... the simple starting battery would do that.

the battery wouldn't produce but 12 volts. the alternator would produce 14... but it doesn't take 14 volts to operate it.

all it takes is something to turn it at a semi steady speed.

and know it isn't going to run and produce extra power.. but there has to be a way to produce enough to sustain it.

your not producing enrgy here your just converting it..

say like you put two more magnetos on your moped run from the wheel hubs.. your first engine and magneeto would turn enough to keep your moped runing.. the other two would be turning still producing extra potential power right?

that would /could run other stuff ..

if you used pedal power to start it off and to get the magneetos/engine producing power... you just converted pedal power to electric/combustion power... right.. and that power is turning the wheels.. if the wheels then both have a gizmo to just sit there and turn and produce power.. wouldnt that be sustaining it? Or producing more power? It is taking momentum fromt he wheels and turning it into electricity which can be stored via a battery and used for other things.

sure the extra magneeto or alternator will add weight and a little friction..... but the turning force already being created by the normal engine/magento is more power.

i don't know.. i understand that it suppoesed to be incorect to think yuou can gain power.. i don't htink your ganing any.. i think your just salvaging more power from sources we don't normaly think of as such.

i just don't understna i guess... I don't know.

it just makes since.. say like on a diesel truck that has 2 batteries and a huge alternator.

I can look at that engine and see that it is just a big old motor only used to turn the alternator.

Sure that isn't effiecient.. but it would produce over 12 volts to keep a batter that doesn't sue more then 12 volts charged.

like you listen to the radio in the diesel vehicle witht he motor running.. you'll never run out of battery power..

why becuase the alternator is constantly supplying more power then what is being used to the battery.

the radio is using battery power right.. but the alternator is keeping batter power always constant.. by producing more then the 12 volts. Sure your using a motor and gas to keep that alternator turning......

but isn't that alot like using in my plan the one batter to start the intial turing of the wheels... that would then start almost imediatly th recharge of the little batter power used to turn the wheel on start up?

How could this not be possible.

The problem here is not the lack of technology, or ideas... its all in the lack of venture capital to get the projects going. Americans don't like "low powered" cars, and want to waste money on cages that weight tons and tons and eat fuel like mad. Look at all the EXTRA corn we grow every year. The government ends up buying the extra from the farmers and destroys it to keep the price up. We could be using this corn to make alcohol based fuels ( like gasahol) or even bio-diesel.... we are very crazy here in the states with all the stuff we waste. Just eat at McDonald's one day...imagine how much crap we would be buried in if everyone ate there with all the packaging and crap. I used to work there, and we could have used all that old up oil we tossed out for bio-diesel....

There is a mechanic here in Cumberland, MD that uses old dirty motor oil to fuel his furnace in his garage... he pumps it through a filter to clean it out first..

Why can't everyone think like us?

Function OVER Form!!!!

I think, but I might be mistaken , Duck, that you might not be grasping the idea that an alternator is only converting mechanical energy into electrical energy and that energy has to come from the gasoline you filled your tank with. Now someone brought up solar power.....that would work great! But I read one time, Duck, that if you were running a common 100 watt bulb off a car alternator,that the average person would be unable to twist the pulley on the alternator with his bare hand because of the force of resistance the alternator kicks back at you. I hope you're catching my meaning..........ANYWAY, have a great week Duck,and get that Peugeot smokin' up the road! See ya! Don

I wish i had an old wagon around. I am ging to try and find a wagon.. and on the waggon set a battery.. maybe a 24 volt marine battery. and then im going to find a small motor.. and conect a belt to one the back wheels.. maybe weld a small sproket to a metal dowl to make a sorta back axel on the wagon... this would liknk my little motor to the wagon.. i think will put a alternato from one of the old trucks around here conencted to the front wheel.. maybe just weld the damn turning part that normal uses a belt to turn it straight to a front wheel. maybe even to both sides.. then link them to the battery that is controling the electric motor.

and just see what happens.. I know the battery power will start the wheels turning... and once the wheels start turning the two alternators will be producing power back to the battery.. a long as its not to heavy the engie should turn fast enough for the speed to make the alternators produce enought o keep the battery charging.

Probly have to use a capacitor to keep everything in check.

Dead on the money,Wayne! In other words,Duck,we like your posts! Keep `em comin', Valdosta Duck! (:^)

Duck,

More power to you if you want to play, but here are a couple of thoughts for you.

You mention that when you brake a car, the brakes get hot. With dynamic braking, the alternator is used to slow the wheels instead of the brakes. The energy of the rolling car is converted by the alternator into battery charging current. Does this sound like alternators don't require any power to turn them.

Have you ever jump started a car? If you have the engine idling on the donor car when you hook up the battery cable, you can hear the donor car's engine "grunt" when you hook up the dead battery. The alternator is applying this load to the engine as it tries to charge the dead battery. Does this sound like alternators don't require any power to turn them.

Motorcycle racers remove the magneto/alternator from thier bikes and switch to a "total loss" battery powered igniyion system, just to eliminate the drag of the alternator and get a little more speed.

I am sure you will be able to rationalize this and go ahead with your project so good luck to you.

Ron

No, I'm not saying that this free energy device is bullshit; I'm not a scientist, though I know enough to be seriously doubtful of it actually working. I mean you probably COULD create electricity from the friction created by quantum particles, but I doubt it would be efficient enough to be put into practice. And that I think is going to be the key to this. Any thing that the common man could think of won’t work; while anything that MAY work would produce so little electricity to be practical. Chucky

I understand what your saying.. I said energy meaning electricty rather.. it does take mechanical energy to turn an alternator.. thats why it is hooked to a belt on the engine... hehe...

but i am saying it doesn't require electricty to operate it.. just a turning force. If the front wheels are free spining already.. well theres your turning force just ready to be exploited

for the making of more Electric energy.

blah.. a good conversation though..