Silver Bullet with no "spark" Help!!!

I have a 1984 Tomos Silver Bullet that was running perfect until it was ridden through a water hole in the street! It stopped in its tracks and now no fire to the plug!!! I have tried everything i know to fix this! New plug, new points , new condensor, new flywheel, new coil and all new light bulbs!! I have traced all the wires as good as i could. All connections seem to be ok? When i crank the bike the horn will blow when the button is pressed! Also, i put on a brand new original on/off/run switch! Iam about ready to " set it on fire" OH NO! I don`t want to get that started again!!!

Anyway, any and all help will be deeply appreciated!!

Thanks in advance!!

Ike

Re: Silver Bullet with no "spark" Help!!

Reeperette /

Kick it.

Or ask Fred to look at it.

My friggin Targa did exactly that...just all up and QUIT on me, and I about went bonkers tryin to fix it....right ?

So I gets Fred to look at it, and mind, all we did was LOOK, and the ferkin thing starts...then blows the ferkin transmission...::rolls eyes skyward::...and when I put a new trans on there...IT UP AND QUIT AGAIN !

I had the same problem with a Silver Bullet as well, but someone stole it afore I could get it fixed so I dunno.

I can let you in on a secret about checkin spark on a Tomos tho (hail to Fred for this one) - that paint stuff on the cylinder ? it's like...nonconductive or somesuch.

So if yer checkin spark with the plug held against the cylinder...try scraping a spot of that stuff off and checkin bare-metal, you might HAVE spark and not know - which about made me tear my damn hair out.

Of course....there's also a simpler possibility.

A - Does it have a voltage regulator ?

B - Did that regulator get wet ?

If so, there might be yer problem.

-R

Re: Silver Bullet with no "spark" Help!!

Not too familiar with your model, but here's something to consider. Maybe you hit that puddle a little hard and knocked your timing out of whack. I'd check on that. Another thing is get a volt/ohm meter and backtrack the wires. Start with the stator wires and see if your getting the right resistance on the "hot" ones. Check your ground wires. Sounds to me that maybe water got in between one of your ground wires near the stator and caused a bad connection whereas you would have no ground. Check electric connections. It only takes just one little nick in a wire to cause a short, then you got to find it.

Re: Silver Bullet with no "spark" Help!!

Ron Brown /

Ike,

Here is a set of generic instructions for checking points ignition. Don't overlook the possibility that the spark is leaking somewhere on the coil or plug wire. This is where water usually gets it.

Believe in silicon spray.

Ron

Let's try this again

Ron Brown /

If you have a vom, check the ignition components as follows:

Disconect the wires from the points. One of these wires goes to the magneto ignition power coil. You should read a low resistance to ground on this wire, 1-2 ohms.

Another wire goes to the condensor, read this to ground on RXMAX, that is your highest resistance range, the needle should kick, then settle down to infinity. Reverse the vom leads, same thing should happen.

Another wire goes to the ignition coil primary, this connection is also connected to the kill switch. Disconnect the kill switch wire only from the ignition coil, the wire to the coil should read 1-2 ohms to ground.

From the wire to the kill switch, to ground, you should read infinity with the switch in "run" and 0 ohms with the switch in "stop".

Connect the vom from ground to the wire terminal on the points and make sure they are 0 ohms when closed and infinity when open. This seems dumb, but sometimes points that look clean do not connect.

Re-attach all of the wires to the points. Disconnect the wire from the points at the ignition coil. Measure this with the vom, it should read near 0 ohms. If your meter is sensitive enough, you should see a slight deflection of the pointer as the points open and close.

With the vom still attached and set to about 12v DC range, spin the motor by hand. You should see some deflection of the meter needle.

Pull your plug (spark, that is) and make sure the piston is at or very near the top of it's stroke when the points open.

Re-connect the coil wire. Measure from the plug cap to ground, you should read 5-15k ohms. If this is infinity, unscrew the plug cap from the wire and read through it. This should be 5-15k ohms, if it is open, replace it, if greater than 15k ohms, it may still work, but replace it with a paper clip for test starting then re-install it after you get the ped running.

Read from the end of the plug wire to ground through the coil, you should see 1-5k ohms. If this is infinity, the coil is bad.

Lastly, using the ohmsX1 scale, verify that all of the grounds really are.

None of these tests are guaranteed to indicate a problem, especially where you read coil resistances and they seem ok. Substitution is the best test here.

To test the coil, connect a spark plug from the plug wire to coil ground, connect an ignition condensor (any will do for this test) between the points terminal and coil ground. Connect the negative of a 6V battery to coil ground and touch the points terminal momentarily with the positive lead. This should give you a spark at the plug.

Re: Silver Bullet with no "spark" Help!!

Reeper,

I know about the paint on the cylinder deal! This bike don`t have a voltage regulator.

I took a coil and plug wire from a running bike but that never fixed it? I put the coil and plug wire from the non runner on the running bike and it still runs fine! So i guess that eliminates one possibility? I am going to replace the complete stator and see what happens? Wiring and electrical problems are my "worst nightmare"!!

When i said this bike was ridden through a water hole, i didn`t mean that the engine was totally submerged! Just a little water splashed up on it! This bike was totally "unmolested when i got it! None of the wiring had ever been messed with since it got off the boat from Slovenia!! But, maybe a "mouse" took a bite out of wire? I have removed a few "mouse nests" from some old bikes befor??

SO...hey guys.. Thanks for all the support so far! I will keep diggin and let ya all know the results.

Ike

Re: Silver Bullet with no "spark" Help!!

Hey,Ike,sorry to hear you're frustrated with tha TOMOS!Changing out the stator sounds goodI was wondering if they have a separate igniton current supply coil and if you got water on it while it was hot....One of my Tomos has a battery and I was thinking it was the Silver Bullet.If a battery on a car shorts out it will kill your engine deader than 4 O'clock,you know.Anyway,go ahead and swap the flywheel-magneto out and see what happens.And check that it's in time;points opening about 20degrees BTDC.Just guesses!

Re: Silver Bullet with no "spark" Help!!

Tomo's of that age have the odd wiring system. Don't know all the querks but I know that the ground wire back at the tailight must be good to make it spark. I got a free 1980 Tomos cause the guy didn't know what was wrong with it. I'd check all connections and use a little sand paper on the easy ones just in case.

Scott

Re: Silver Bullet with no "spark" Help!!

Reeperette /

>>One of my Tomos has a battery and I was thinking it was the Silver Bullet.<<

I believe it may well be...it's been a long time, so I cannot state it as ironclad fact, but I do think that model had a battery in it, under the seat, perhaps ?

And I think that battery might have a fuse on it too...which'd be somethin to run and check right quick.

Let us know, eh..

-R

Re: Silver Bullet with no &quot;spark&quot; Help!!

3 things you might wanna check

1 spark plug cap (had my tomos "die" on me after washing it cuz of this)

2 corroded ignition ground point(s)

3 breaker points

1 or 3 or both are probably what it is, the stock tomos spark plug caps on A3's (pre 1992) were made out of resin plastic, i think it may be bakelite, they cracked very easily. i reccomend buying an NGK motorcycle type (waterproof) spark plug cap from your local motorcycle shop, even if it isnt the cause. (replace the plug too, the NGK caps arent screw mount, so either get a "tip" for your plug or replace it with a new B5HS plug) to remove the cap, take a flat bladed screwdriver and unscrew the little golden metal threaded thing inside, it has a big point at the top that "bites" the wire and holds the cap in place (spent 2 hours trying to figure out how to remove it on my 1990 Golden Bullet TTLX)

Re: Silver Bullet with no &quot;spark&quot; Help!!

Had laser surgery on my eyes today!!! Doc says, no gasoiline, no grease, and no "sparks"!!!! lol!! in the eyes for a day or 2!!! But i did look at the Silver Bullet enough to see it has no battery!! Reeper...I have 2 Silver Bullets and a Golden Bullet, none have batterys???

I will look for "spark " again soon... and post the results!!

Re: Silver Bullet with no &quot;spark&quot; Help!!

Sprint Man /

I have a 96 Black Tomos Sprint. I use a Bosh spark plug and it's running fine, spark wise, (it's in the shop right now getting inspected and getting upgraded). My friend and I thinks a Bosh spark plug gives it better and longer spark to the pistons. I got mine for $2.00. That's why you see it advertised in most moped shops

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