KREEM & RUSTY TANK debate (ron, fred, & zi

okay, i have been searching the forums for a couple hours now finding every bit of info i can about cleaning a rusty tank... from Zippy's suggestion, i went out and bought some KREEM... it says in the instructions to use the "coating" IMMEDIATELY after using the first 2 steps (to prevent immediate rusting)... however, form what i gather.. i could technically do the first 2 steps and just keep oil/gas mix in it to prevent further rust.. right?

my main beef is i do not want to have to use the "coating" as its a 78 motobecane, and the tank is not removable... and im not too keen on the idea of taking the entire engine and everything off to shake up the frame... especially since most of the cables are in kinda rough shape and most likely wont go back on too smoothly...

another option is just to simply set the entire KREEM product set aside and use CLR or something... but there are pretty heavy rust deposits inside the tank... i flushed about 3 gallons of kerosene (and about a 2 cups of acetone) through the tank, and gas will flow through freely... and appears to be clean... but there is still rust in the tank... so i know i need to do more.

if i keep oil/gas mix in the tank could i conceivably get away with just getting an inline fuel filter and keeping an eye on it? i cant even really begin trying to get this running until the tank issue is solved, cuz i dont want to have to keep tearing the carb off every 20 minutes...

so basically, my questions are:

could i just use the TANK PREP A from the KREEM set (i have already spent the $$ on it) and then some dry gas.. then keep oil/gas mix in it?

should i just get CLR or some other phosphoric acid and use that?

if the gas seemingly flows freely out of the petcock hole, can i just use an inline fuel filter and be done with it?

thanks for all the help... and even though i tried to be as thorough as possible, im sure i left something out.. so...

take care

casey

Re: KREEM & RUSTY TANK debate (ron, fred, &amp

Using the coating is difficult but not impossible with the tank integrated into the frame. What I do for non-removables is to use some tie down straps that have a locking slide clasp. I throw a couple of these over tree limb or a garage beam that is strong enough to support the weight of the ped (about 110 lbs). I attach the tie straps to the front and rear of the ped (to something strong on the that won't bend). I hoist it in the air front or rear to test that it works and completely clears the ground. Then I let it down and put in the Creem and hoist the ped from the rear. If you hoist it high enough, you can actually turn or slowly spin the bike around to make sure the tank is evenly coated on the inside. Follow the manufacturers instructions about coating it, drain off the excess, let it sit for 8-10 minutes and then hoist it and spin it slowly again. What you are trying to do is to coat the tank as evenly as you can and then drain off the excess and don't let it pool down by where the fuel petcock is in the tank.

If you use the Creem be sure and let it dry for 24 hours before you but any gas/oil mix in and clean out the excess in the petcock hole with a pocket knife before inserting the fuel petcock.

You can also do the second option and not do the Creem and keep your tank full and drain it in the winter and then spray the tank inside withn WD40 before putting it up.

If you have purchased the kit and done steps 1& 2 I would recommend you go ahead and do step 3 but take your time and do it properly.

Also Fred and some of the others may have some suggestions or techniques that may help you.

Good luck

Re: KREEM & RUSTY TANK debate (ron, fred, &amp

hey zippy! thanks for your input again!

so, you are thinking i could just do the first 2 steps (i havent done them yet) and keep a full tank? i would rather do that, so i dont have to do any hoisting.. plus, i dont have anywhere i could do such a thing...

would it also be possible to do the coating step later? because now, im just trying to get it running... maybe after i do the first 2 steps, keep it full, and get it running... i can add the coating after i make sure its actually going to work? apparently, you can reuse the first 2 steps, so i could just save them and do the whole pracess over again?

here's what the instructions say...

>after using tank prep A and B, DO NOT dry the tank as this will cause flash rust to form. add KREEM tank liner immediately after rinsing with tank prep B>

could i just get away with doing tank prep A & B and then using some dry gas to neutralize the water? or maybe even just tank prep A, then the dry gas? if i do this, should i add dry gas AND the oil/gas mix immediately?

i REALLY want to avoid doing the liner (too much work for a ped that may not even run)...

thanks again!

casey

Re: KREEM & RUSTY TANK debate (ron, fred, &amp

I don't know... but if you already bought the kit... I don't think they will let you return it... so you might as well use it like the instructions say.

If you were to do it over... I would try the CLR or the strongest phos acid you could find... If you were going to keep using the bike (or keep the tank full, and use a fuel filter)... then you could be done with it.

jury rig a gas tank

If you want to see if it runs before you mess with the gas tank, you can spray some starter fluid in the carb intake and pedal it to see if it will start and/or you could jury rig a small temporary metal or plastic gas tank (duct tape it to the frame to see if you can get it to run)

Just be careful with the gas if you rig a temp.

Re: jury rig a gas tank

cool.. good ideas... now i kinda wish i hadn't spent the $$ on the kreem.. but oh well... once i get it running, i will use it...

i think i will use the temp tank... or try the starter fluid in the intake... maybe both!!

i have a good feeling about this moped running... i may have to do some work, but i think its worth it. very nice motobecane...

thanks again

casey

Re: KREEM & RUSTY TANK debate (ron, fred, &amp

XBrandon EdgeX /

Now, I know you said you didn't want to remove everything from the frame so you could shake it, but if you were to, couldn't you just transplant all the parts on to one of your other motobecanes (if you have one with a good tank)? I know you have a small collection of non-running motobecanes :)

Re: jury rig a gas tank

I just did this myself. One quick tip that you may already know. Depending on what kind of tank you use, be sure to mount it high enough so that the fuel will flow properly since it is gravity fed. I made the mistake of mounting an old lawnmower tank down low and it wouldn't provide sufficient fuel. Raised it six inches and no problem. Also be sure to add a little inline filter. If you use a clear one you can see that the fuel is flowing.

Good luck.

Steve

Re: KREEM & RUSTY TANK debate (ron, fred, &amp

Ron Brown /

Casey,

I'm in the subject so I suppose I should post my 10 cents worth. : )

If your gas is flowing freely right now, use an in-line filter and fire it up. The most you can lose is a filter from plugging it up.

I have used almost every method there is for cleaning rust from gas tanks and I pick and choose depending on the condition of the tank and what it is on.

My everyday ride, a Honda 500/4, has had the gravel shaking and muriatic acid treatment. I run it with just the stock fuel screen and about once a year I clean some fine red (rust) powder out of the petcock bowl.

My Mopeds have had either muriatic or phosphoric acid treatment until they were rust free inside, I run all three without fuel filters and have had no problems.

I have only Kreemed one bike, a 65 Honda Dream. If I were to try Kreeming a ped with a built in tank, I would definitely strip it to the frame first to allow the tank to be sloshed for cleaning and coating. Also, use a dental mirror and flashlight to make sure you have every trace of rust removed before Kreeming. Most of the rust is in the bottom of the tank, where the water settles, and the top surface of the tank, where condensation gets it.

Considering the success I have had in non-Kreemed tanks, I am not sure I would bother with Kreem again unless the rust pitting caused the tank to seep gas. Kreem will seal pin-holes.

Ron

Re: KREEM & RUSTY TANK debate (ron, fred, &amp

Had EXACTLY the same problem with a 1983 Yamaha I was rebuilding, but the tank was removable. Wasn't too crazy about putting a liner in the tank either, so this is what I did. I went to Home Depot and got a toilet bowl acid cleaner. Not as strong as muratic acid, but I thought would do the trick. This stuff was thick and creamy like, not real loose like water so it didn't get on the paint as easily. I poured it in the tank, added some water, and let sit for about ten minutes, flushed with lots of water, then did it again. It got most of the nasty crap out but I noticed it loosened everything up. So I then took it to one of those high pressure, wash the car yourself places, and stuck the hose in the tank and blasted everything out. Worked great. Got an inline fuel filter at AutoZone for about two bucks, cut the gas line and put it in between the petcock and carb. Worked great. One thing I did learn about this, the petcock rubber had disintegrated and was clogging up the inlet holes so no gas was flowing to the carb. New one only cost 20 bucks at the local Yamaha dealer, worth it.

Re: KREEM & RUSTY TANK debate (ron, fred, &amp

awesome.. thanks for the help everyone... lots of good ideas...

not too sure what im exactly going to do yet... but i guess ill just go ahead and use the kreem stuff since i already spent the $$ on it.... but still havent made up my mind for sure yet. a friend of mine i was hanging out with last night who restores motorcycles said he uses that kreem stuff all the time... and i could bring my ped over to his place and hoist it there. (he has actually done the same thing with motorcycles)... thanks again and ill post back to let everyone know how it turned out!

casey

Re: KREEM & RUSTY TANK debate (ron, fred, &amp

Maybe you should just try cleaning it out real good and add an inline filter and go with it for a season. You can always use the Kreem as plan B.

After reading all these great ideas I think that's what I'm going to try.

My tank is pretty bad in my opinion but I haven't anything to really compare it to. Like it was said a few messages back, the worst that can happen is you trash an inline filter.

PS Thanks for the warm welcome. I hope to be a frequent contributor/complainer.

Re: KREEM & RUSTY TANK debate (ron, fred, &amp

I also had a very rusty tank on my Puch (integrated into the frame, not removable) and cleaned it out with Naval jelly. I removed the petcock, taped up the hole and poured in the jelly and flipped the bike over to get the inside covered real well. I let it sit for 15 minutes and then rinsed it real well with a pressure hose. Then repeated it again. Once I dried it out I filled it with a good clean mixture, installed an clear inline filter and it worked great. I keep checking the filter and there are no deposits in there and I get excellent fuel flow.

Re: KREEM & RUSTY TANK debate (ron, fred, &amp

Ron Brown /

For all you guys who are using a pressure washer to rinse your gas tank, or even a garden hose, dry gas or gas line antifreeze is a cheap and readily available way of removing the water from the tank. Just pour some in, slosh it around, dump it and repeat.

Re: KREEM & RUSTY TANK debate (ron, fred, &amp

Do check the petcok matts is pretty much gone and all the guys at ezzell's auto parts said to go to the car wash with the bike and just hose the shit out of it. We might have been better off doing this with matts moped becuase his tank comes off so easy.We creemed his gas tank yesterday and that stuff sets up pretty easy if you decide to do that me you and brian could pick the bike up and swish it around I dont know how heavy your bike is thow.

Re: KREEM & RUSTY TANK debate (ron, fred, &amp

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