Re: 2-strokes = really bad for environment

Jamie Leonard /
This single post is part of a larger thread. Start from the top or view this post in context.

Actually from the info I found (which looks fairly reasonable) mopeds are not great, but aren't as bad as are being pictured (certainly not as bad as lawnmowers and such) - the figures I found (check the thread called "mopeds and pollution) seem to suggest that compared to a new car, a moped will put out about 4-5 times the amount of emissions in SOME categories... which isn't great, but hardly the 50-75 times people have claimed.

And when you take into account that they do burn much less fuel on average (gasoline puts all kinds of nasty emissions out during the refining process, waste gases are burned into the atmosphere, and petroleum is burned to heat the crude during the refining process as well), and that they take a hue amount less plastics and steel (steel refining puts sulfur, N2O, etc into the air... per ton of steel you might get something more than the total WEIGHT of your moped in highly toxic emissions)

Plus this is presuming you are driving a modern car.. anyone driving a car made before the early eighties will be putting out 4 times the nasty emissions of any moped.

Given that the average moped takes 1.1 riders, and the average car takes 1.7 riders (most cars carrying only one passenger) - they don't appear to be quite as bad as you would expect. In fact, when you look at the resources consumed to produce a car, how much of the car remains unrecycled/toxic after the lifespan of the car, how mopeds take up less space in traffic which reduces traffic congestion and traffic jams (which result in hundreds of cars sitting there idling and putting out emissions without even moving), do virtually no road damage, and generally use and leak lesser amounts of things like ATF/hydraulic fluid, air conditioning coolants, engine coolants (antifreeze added to the radiator), crankcase oil, etc etc etc.... its not nearly so cut and dried as people make out.

This being said, the ideal situation no doubt is to design a better moped - already apparently underway in some countries (india has a push on for this) - to add catalytic converters which can reduce emissions up to 38 percent without signifigantly affecting power, or look for alternative power sources (electric isn't there yet in range, power, or expense... mostly the problem being the batteries I suspect. But this could change when fuel cell technology matures in the hopefully very short term future)

Just thought I'd chip in on this thread.

Jamie

This single post is part of a larger thread. Start from the top or view this post in context.
Subject Written By Posted
  why your moped saves our environment.Topic by: Ryan J Ryan J 12/23/01 10:20PM
  Where is your proof ?????Re: Fred Fred 12/23/01 11:00PM
  Re: Where is your proof ?????Re: Ryan J Ryan J 12/23/01 11:50PM
  Re: Where is your proof ?????Re: Ron Brown Ron Brown 12/24/01 11:39AM
  too much oil = seizure?Re: Chris S Chris S 12/24/01 12:05PM
  Re: too much oil = seizure?Re: Ron Brown Ron Brown 12/24/01 12:44PM
  More oil means leaner air to gas ratio...believe iRe: Fred Fred 12/24/01 12:52PM
  More oil means leaner air/gas ratio..believe itRe: Fred Fred 12/24/01 12:56PM
  Stop it!Re: Ron Brown Ron Brown 12/24/01 01:23PM
  Re: More oil means leaner air/gas ratio..believe iRe: Chris S Chris S 12/24/01 05:10PM
  Re: More oil means leaner air to gas ratio...belieRe: Ron Brown Ron Brown 12/24/01 01:19PM
  Re: Where is your proof ?????Re: Nick Nick 12/24/01 02:05PM
  Re: Where is your proof ?????Re: Ryan J Ryan J 12/24/01 02:41PM
  simple mathRe: Ryan J Ryan J 12/24/01 12:12AM
  Fred's Right.Re: Wayne Wayne 12/24/01 12:27AM
  Re: Fred's Right.Re: Ryan J Ryan J 12/24/01 01:29AM
  Moped=Eco friendly?Re: Wayne Wayne 12/24/01 02:19AM
  Re: Moped=Eco friendly?Re: Crisis Crisis 12/24/01 10:08AM
  Re: Moped=Eco friendly?Re: Tom(MO) Tom(MO) 12/24/01 10:22AM
  Re: Moped=Eco friendly?Re: Chris Chris 12/24/01 10:37AM
  Re: Moped=Eco friendly?Re: Ryan J Ryan J 12/24/01 01:30PM
  You're still blowin smoke (get it? bahaha!)Re: Fred Fred 12/24/01 03:46PM
  Re: You're still blowin smoke (get it? bahaha!)Re: miguel miguel 12/24/01 04:49PM
  bicyclesRe: Fred Fred 12/24/01 07:06PM
  Re: bicyclesRe: Wayne Wayne 12/24/01 07:18PM
  Re: bicyclesRe: Ryan J Ryan J 12/24/01 11:39PM
  Re: bicyclesRe: Ron Brown Ron Brown 12/25/01 10:44AM
  Re: bicyclesRe: Ron Brown Ron Brown 12/25/01 10:42AM
  Re: bicyclesRe: Toehead Toehead 06/12/02 09:33PM
  Re: You're still blowin smoke (get it? bahaha!)Re: Ron Brown Ron Brown 12/24/01 05:46PM
  Re: You're still blowin smoke (get it? bahaha!)Re: Ryan J Ryan J 12/24/01 07:02PM
  Well then...Re: Fred Fred 12/24/01 07:20PM
  And another thing...Re: Ryan J Ryan J 12/24/01 07:11PM
  elevatorRe: Wayne Wayne 12/24/01 07:20PM
  Re: elevatorRe: Ron Brown Ron Brown 12/25/01 10:38AM
  Re: Well then...Re: miguel miguel 12/24/01 11:10PM
  Re: Well then...Re: Ryan J Ryan J 12/24/01 11:37PM
  Re: More oil means leaner air/gas ratio..believe iRe: js js 12/24/01 06:03PM
  I am assigning you extra homeworkRe: The Moped Gawd The Moped Gawd 12/24/01 06:34PM
  Re: More oil means leaner air/gas ratio..believe iRe: Jimmy Jimmy 12/26/01 07:20PM
  Re: A real solutionRe: Jim C. Jim C. 12/25/01 10:38PM
  Re: A real solutionRe: Ryan J Ryan J 12/26/01 01:11AM
  Re: A real solutionRe: XBrandon EdgeX XBrandon EdgeX 12/26/01 01:12PM
  Re: why your moped saves our environment.Re: Jim Jim 06/12/02 05:14PM
  Re: why your moped saves our environment.Re: Chris Rice Chris Rice 06/12/02 05:28PM
  My moped is bad for the environment. So what?Re: John Lieberman John Lieberman 06/12/02 05:49PM
  Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?Re: Fred Fred 06/12/02 06:50PM
  Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?Re: Toehead Toehead 06/12/02 07:07PM
  Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?Re: Brandon Eliason Brandon Eliason 06/12/02 07:37PM
  Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?Re: Toehead Toehead 06/12/02 07:11PM
  Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?Re: Fred Fred 06/12/02 07:16PM
  Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?Re: Toehead Toehead 06/12/02 07:25PM
  new 4 strokesRe: Fred Fred 06/12/02 07:50PM
  Re: new 4 strokesRe: Toehead Toehead 06/12/02 07:55PM
  Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?Re: Jim Jim 06/12/02 07:32PM
  Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?Re: Fred Fred 06/12/02 07:45PM
  Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?Re: Jim Jim 06/12/02 08:32PM
  Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?Re: JD JD 06/12/02 09:03PM
  Jim the Hawaiian Troll & Sierra ClubRe: Wayne Wayne 06/12/02 10:31PM
  Re: Breeder reactor (correction)Re: Wayne Wayne 06/12/02 10:50PM
  Re: Jim the Hawaiian Troll & Sierra ClubRe: Jim Jim 06/13/02 12:22AM
  Re: Jim the Hawaiian Troll & Sierra ClubRe: gimmyjimmy gimmyjimmy 06/13/02 08:48AM
  Re: Jim the Hawaiian Troll & Sierra ClubRe: Toehead Toehead 06/13/02 08:23PM
  Re: Jim the Hawaiian Troll & Sierra ClubRe: JD JD 06/13/02 09:28AM
  Re: Jim the Hawaiian Troll & Sierra ClubRe: Jim Jim 06/13/02 09:57AM
  Re: Jim the Hawaiian Troll & Sierra ClubRe: JD JD 06/13/02 11:33AM
  Re: Jim the Hawaiian Troll & Sierra ClubRe: Jim Jim 06/13/02 12:03PM
  Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?Re: Toehead Toehead 06/12/02 09:18PM
  2 strokes ... villain or victim ?Re: Fred Fred 06/12/02 10:12PM
  Re: Quotes from JimRe: Wayne Wayne 06/13/02 10:24AM
  Re: Quotes from JimRe: Jim Jim 06/13/02 10:41AM
  Re: Quotes from JimRe: Ron Brown Ron Brown 06/13/02 11:04AM
  Re: Quotes from JimRe: Jim Jim 06/13/02 11:47AM
  Re: Quotes from JimRe: Wayne Wayne 06/13/02 11:06AM
  Re: Quotes from JimRe: Toehead Toehead 06/13/02 08:32PM
  Re: Quotes from JimRe: Brad c cool Brad c cool 06/15/02 11:50PM
  Re: TauntingRe: Wayne Wayne 06/16/02 05:10PM
  Re: Jim www.epa.govRe: Wayne Wayne 06/12/02 09:59PM
  Re: Jim www.epa.govRe: Jim Jim 06/13/02 12:47AM
  2-strokes = really bad for environmentRe: brian p brian p 06/13/02 12:06PM
  Re: 2-strokes = really bad for environmentRe: Jamie Leonard Jamie Leonard 06/14/02 10:45AM
  HEY FREDRe: duck duck 06/12/02 07:26PM
  Re: HEY DUCK !!Re: Fred Fred 06/12/02 07:43PM
  Re: HEY DUCK !!Re: chuck russo va chuck russo va 06/13/02 11:12AM
  Re: HEY DUCK !!Re: Chris Rice Chris Rice 06/13/02 12:23PM
  Re: HEY DUCK !!Re: Kurt Kurt 06/13/02 03:39PM
  8 PEOPLE IN VEHICLE (COPS)Re: Wayne Wayne 06/13/02 04:15PM
  Re: How do i make my moped go faster?Re: Jim C. Jim C. 06/13/02 05:01PM
  Re: How do i make my moped go faster?Re: Wayne Wayne 06/14/02 04:25PM
  Re: How do i make my moped go faster?Re: Jamie Leonard Jamie Leonard 06/14/02 04:29PM
  Re: How do i make my moped go faster?Re: JD JD 06/14/02 04:32PM
  Re: How do i make my moped go faster?Re: Jamie Leonard Jamie Leonard 06/14/02 04:40PM
  Re: How do i make my moped go faster?Re: Jim Jim 06/14/02 05:38PM
  Re: 8 PEOPLE IN VEHICLE (COPS)Re: duck duck 06/13/02 05:14PM
  Re: 8 PEOPLE IN VEHICLE (COPS)Re: Jim Jim 06/13/02 07:32PM
  Re: 8 PEOPLE IN VEHICLE (COPS)Re: Toehead Toehead 06/13/02 08:47PM
  Re: 8 PEOPLE IN VEHICLE (COPS)Re: Jim Jim 06/13/02 09:15PM
  Re: 8 PEOPLE IN VEHICLE (COPS)Re: Toehead Toehead 06/13/02 09:30PM
  Re: 8 PEOPLE IN VEHICLE (COPS)Re: Jim Jim 06/14/02 04:34AM
  Re: 8 PEOPLE IN VEHICLE (COPS)Re: Toehead Toehead 06/14/02 07:41AM
  Re: 8 PEOPLE IN VEHICLE (COPS)Re: Jim Jim 06/14/02 08:26AM
  Re: 8 PEOPLE IN VEHICLE (COPS)Re: JD JD 06/14/02 08:31AM
  Re: 8 PEOPLE IN VEHICLE (COPS)Re: david f martin david f martin 06/13/02 09:47PM
  Re: 8 PEOPLE IN VEHICLE (COPS)Re: Toehead Toehead 06/13/02 09:49PM
  Re: 8 PEOPLE IN VEHICLE (COPS)Re: Ron Brown Ron Brown 06/14/02 09:52AM
  Re: 8 PEOPLE IN VEHICLE (COPS)Re: Toehead Toehead 06/14/02 11:52AM
  Re: 8 PEOPLE IN VEHICLE (COPS)Re: duck duck 06/14/02 01:21AM
  what about hte buik?Re: duck duck 06/14/02 01:29AM
  Re: I give upRe: Jim C. Jim C. 06/14/02 10:05AM
  Re: I give upRe: Steve Steve 06/16/02 06:09PM
  Re: TauntingRe: david f martin david f martin 06/16/02 05:19PM

Want to post in this forum? We'd love to have you join the discussion, but first:

Login or Create Account