The reason you don't use your elevator is because it doesn't go all the way to the top.

Well then...

This here is a statement that contradicts your original premise... which means its an admission of defeat... >

QUOTE[Unless of course they drive a really small car, which is better for the environment than both large cars and mopeds]

And the only factual statements I made was that mopeds only get about 80 mpg... which the ones I have tested did... like most people I originally thought they got around 115... but it turns out that ped odometers are in kilometers... so they only get abt 80.

And economy cars getting 40 mpg ??... That is common knowledge that can be seen on government mandated stickers on new cars per mandated test standards... many actually get 50 or so highway... I rounded low to be safe.

Oh... and FUCK the Sierra Club! (as you pretty much said)... I ride dirtbikes too.

They are full of shit.(the SC)

And dishonest.

And frankly... stupid... they are picking on us because we don't have billion dollar lobbying campaigns like trucking, industry, and airline industries do.

Re: Well then...

i was going to buy a horse. but it also produces co2 emissions. hey, so do i ... as i walk, i breathe out co2. and i have to eat to have the energy to walk ... oy! such waste of natural resources.

i was so concerned ... i thought i should kill myself (but not by car fumes, that's just more pollution). but they'd have to bury me someplace, i guess. but that's just less farm space or whatever.

or can i just get dumped in a farmplot and used as fertelizer? yes! that's it. i'll kill myself by having a friend bury hit me over the head w/ a stone (not a knife, think of the steel mills!) and then burry me (using a big stick, not a metal shovel) in the ground for farmers to then plant crops over me.

the solution to the pollution problem!

in case any of you were dense ... sarcasm isn't dead.

Re: Well then...

No you can't be buried, thats a serious waste of our natural resources. I'm going to use you as house siding. (it's far more economical that way)

Re: bicycles

Unless of course the bicycles have really tiny wheels, then it's easier to walk.

Re: elevator

Ron Brown /


I am emailing you my shipping address so you can send me a replacement for the one I just blew coffee all over.

Miguel, I'm, glad you clarified your post. I was beginning to get excited about seeing the flowers growing around the manor next year. : )


Re: bicycles

Ron Brown /


Nice Pic! Was this before or after your surgery?


Re: bicycles

Ron Brown /


Only a problem if you have bad knees.


Re: A real solution

Here's what to do:


Re: A real solution

Now thats what I call luxury.

(Of course not really, everybody knows a true status car [or moped {if there is such a thing}] can't be front wheel drive- it's just not snobby enough)

Re: A real solution

XBrandon EdgeX /

The status moped is defintitely the Vespa Grande (or maybe the Tomos Revival).

Re: More oil means leaner air/gas ratio..believe i


Number of people in ANY SUV during the morning drive into work = 1

Re: why your moped saves our environment.

Uh, Is this guy completely clueless or what? Mopeds emit more VOC's and particulate matter (carbon, sulphur, etc) than any car truck or SUV on the planet. One moped emits the same pollutants as 20-30 late model cars OR 8-12 SUV's. Don't ask for the details. Check out the EPA's website and see for yourself. I bought a moped a few years ago thinking it was an environmentally conscious thing to do and I would save on gas. It turned out that my moped got only 65 mpg (the same as a 2000 lb Honda Insight) and it was later brought to my attention that it's the biggest polluting device you could own (legally). I also had to toss $9 worth of oil (burned up in the atmosphere) for every 8 gallons of gas (about 500 miles). The operating cost of my moped, in terms of gas and oil, was the same as my Mazda!

And about those claims of mpg from the manufacturers (100-150 mpg), where in the world do they come up with this stuff? I could probably get the equivalent of 150 mpg if I rode my moped off a cliff.

My advice - save the planet, by a car.

Re: why your moped saves our environment.

Save us....you jump off of a cliff! :)

My moped is bad for the environment. So what?

John Lieberman /

I love my moped and I ride it because it's fun. But I don't try to justify my indulgence by claiming environmental friendliness. My machine, which runs very well, spews one hell of a lot of crap into the air. Fortunately, I don't use it that much, and there are very few of them out there.

We already had a spirited conversation on this in another thread (see "Is a moped good for me?" - 8 June 2002) so I'm not going to dredge it all up again. Suffice it to say that, "an automobile would have to drive 100,000 miles to produce the same amount of smog-forming pollutants as a two-stroke engine does in seven hours, according to the California Air Resources Board." (Sierra Club Planet Newsletter.)

By the way, I can't stand those Sierra Club weenies.

If everyone switched from cars to mopeds, we'd save one hell of a lot of energy, but the air would be thick with smog. For mopeds to become environmentally "correct" they'd have to switch to four-cycle engines with pollution controls, at the very least. Don't count on that happening anytime soon.

Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?

JD wrote:


> For mopeds to become environmentally "correct" they'd have to

> switch to four-cycle engines with pollution controls, at the

> very least. Don't count on that happening anytime soon.

Actually... thats not true at all... 2 strokes are virtually being outlawed in any shape or form.

Jet ski's are going to 4 strokes.

Snowmobiles are going to 4 strokes.

Some 2 stroke lawnmowers have been banned in Cali

2 stroke dirtbikes are now banned from public land in Cali

Dirtbikes are going to 4 strokes in the rest of the country.

A new law by the EPA and DOT will require all ORVs to meet the same pollution and noise standards as cars do... no 2 stroke will pass those requirements... (without a bunch of stuff they probably won't see fit to do to them).

sooooooooo... as of right now... under 50cc has no emissions standards to meet... but that could change pretty fast if any Sierra Club type organizations turn up the heat... (and Americans sit back and let therir Government do more stupid stuff... which they will...)

peds (and scooters) are such a small, unobtrusive element though... that they will probably not be bothered.... probably ...

Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?

In massachusetts. there isn't any problems with 2-strokes. they are predominant here in all small things. Maybe in california(shit country, where hoses carry the label "contains chemicals known to the state of california to cause cancer) 2-strokes are a problem, but not here. Anyway, it is virtually impossible to make a four stroke small, light, and powerful enought to do anything in chain saws, weedwackers, or mopeds. 2-strokes have twice the power to weight ratio as four strokes, and that is a necessity in all the current 2-stroke applications. I doubt it very much we will see 2-strokes dissapear anytime soon.

Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?

but I could be wrong :/

Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?

Well you are wrong.. as far as jetskis and snowmobiles and outboard motors and dirtbikes... its already happening and you will see that at any dealer you go to.

Thats a fact.

but in smaller motors like weedwackers... I pretty much agree.

but remember ... this is the government... what they do doesn't make good sense most of the time.

Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?

I shoulda kept my mouth shut. Sorry Fred. You are right. You know a lot more than I. If I'd read the name of the poster than i'd have never responded.


You said up above that cars don't carry 8 people.. I just have to say.. I live in south georgia and north florida area.

I don't mean to be rude or wrong or politacle incorrect but man.. I have seen old 1880ish ford trucks or chevy coustom vans with 100 mexicans in them... 8 people in one vehicle.. no not often.. but yeah.. it does happen

Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?

How is cleaning up our environment not make good sense??

Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?

Four strokes would work, they worked on the Indian mopeds. It's true that a two stroke creates more power than a four stroke, but the two stroke engines on mopeds are restricted to 2 hp or less, when a 50cc engine is capable of, from what I've heard, at least 12 horsepower. So a four stroke with equal restrictions would only produce half the power of a two stroke. Plus, four strokes have more low end torque and a broader power band, so different gearing could make them perform just as good if not better than a two stroke. They'd be more reliable, but when something does go wrong, it's a pain in the ass to fix because you have to mess with valves, cams, and stuff like that.

but I love the two stroke engines. They're so easy to work on plus, when tuned right, they produce amazing power. they also sound a lot cooler in my opinion. when you compare a two stroke dirt bike to a four stroke dirt bike, the two stroke sounds like it wants to kill something by viciously tearing it apart :)



You might oughta tinkabotiteh ??

You see many cars driving around with 8 people in them ?


Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?

How is bad English not sense make good ?

new 4 strokes

Not really dood ... you were half right anyway... except in Cali... I think they will continue to use small 2 strokes in tools.

But go visit a dealer.. and ask to see the new 4 stroke dirtbikes... very fast and powerful... even lightweight.

Re: new 4 strokes

yeah, my best friend just got a yz-250f

Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?

Give me a break Einstein. I bet I have an education 100 times better than yours and the smarts to prove it. My slip has nothing to do with my English but rather my tendency to slip while thinking and typing. Yes, I type faster than I think. Now I want you to be a good person of equality and correct every person that sports a typo or grammatical oops in their messages. When you're done get back to me.

Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?

Uh, oh, Fred, now you've done it. You've got a tree hugger mad at you.

Re: My moped is bad for the environment. So what?

can you walk and chew gum? :)

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