Who makes kinetic?

Chris Small /

anyone anyone?

Re: Who makes kinetic?

kinetic TFR I believe is made in India from old motobecane plans ,, should be reliable if maintenance is kept up and broken in gently(which is hard to do sometimes) you just want to stay on that throttle!!

Re: Who makes kinetic?

I don't think it's made from old Motobecane designs...I think it was the Vespa Caio for the TFR and the Vespa Grande for the Magnum. The quality is not the same as a Vespa...

Re: Who makes kinetic?

kinetic makes kinetic but they gook the vespa engine and made it crap and made a crappy frame and everything else. definitly not a moped you want

Its not crap

B Perkins /

granted its a single speed but it looks good and rides well. I really like mine. Only have 225 miles on mine but no moped is perfect and all brands have their little peculiarities.

Re: Its not crap

Now Ivan,you AVANTI fanatic,you ruffled some feathers there.I'll be surprised if that's the only chastisement you receive.

Re: Who makes kinetic?

The TFR and Magnum are made by Kinetic Engineering in India and are imported to the US by Cosmopolitan Motors in Pennsylvania.

I'm told the engine is basically a knockoff of the 1950's Vespa design, though I wouldn't be able to offer an informed opinion on that myself. The rest of the bike appears derivative of Vespa design generally, but not so close, I think, that parts would interchange.

The basic difference between the two is the Magnum has the 2-speed rear wheel assembly and comes with turn signals, which is normally an addon with the TFR (the switches and wiring are already there, you just need to attach the lights themselves). The Magnum also has a "2 person" seat, which I think is a bit disingenuous, as I'd never recommend putting a 2nd person on one of these bikes.

I bought mine more cheaply than this, but the web-only vendor I used is gone now, so I'd say JC Whitney is likely the best reliable vendor at this time. I recommend turn signals, and they throw those and a 2nd mirror in for the price, and shipping is included, so that's not too shabby.

I bought my TFR in Jan 2000, so I've had some time to live with it and develop a view of its strengths and weaknesses, including some things you will not get from the sales literature, no matter how skeptical you are about such material on reading.

Let me start off by saying I think this is a great bike for the money, so nobody mistakes the comment that follow. It does have limitations people should know about so they don't buy one and find themselves disappointed.

1st off: 3 month warranty from Cosmopolitan. If you won't be able to play with your bike right away, don't order it right away. You have only 90 days to find flaws and request replacement parts. Regardless what Cosmotor says, you're pretty much your own mechanic with regard to a Kinetic, so don't order one unless you or a family memeber is modestly handy with tools. On the other hand, it's a pretty simple device, so if you were comfortable working on the family lawn mower as a kid, you'll be okay. Mine had 2 infant mortality problems: the voltage regulator failed, and I lost the air cleaner (it has a tendency to vibrate off). Both items were mailed to me without complaint by Cosmopolitan. I solved the air cleaner problem by wedging a piece of styrofoam between the air cleaner assembly and the rear wheel's fender, so it doesn't fall off anymore. You'll probably want to do something similar, as it's secured only with a ring clamp which is pretty notorious for vibrating loose.

If you want to get your new toy up and running quickly on delivery, you'll need to have some things on hand, so you may want to do some shopping in advance. Helmet of course. 90 weight (10W40 will do fine) oil for the rear hub. You'll have to inject it through a tiny-tiny hole, so an oil can would be a good idea. Otherwise a syringe might do. Lay the bike on its side, fill the oil hole, stand it up, let it drip out the excess. Paper towels might be a good idea. You'll need a 10mm socket wrench to get the handlebars seated correctly. (That's the only metric wrench you'll need right off, but on an ongoing basis, you'll want a full metric set for other repairs.) Everything else can be done with regular tools such as bicycle pliers, etc. You'll also need some general purpose grease for the chain, just like a bicycle. And of course some 2-cycle oil for the fuel mix. A gas can for ped fuel will be a great convenience, if you can store it (may be a problem in an apartment). I recommend the luggage carrier (mine has a sterile crate lashed to it), but not the wire saddlebags. (Those were a waste of money, because they ride so far forward they hit the back of your ankles if you ever pedal. Bad.)

According to Cosmopolitan, the owner's manual and gas cap markings are wrong. They say the fuel/oil mix should be 3% for the first 300 miles and 2% afterwards. Mine ran very weakly, made a lot of smoke, and fouled the plug badly at first, so I checked with them. Cosmo says the instructions should say 3 ounces/gallon initially and 2 oz/gallon afterwards. Switching to that mix and changing the plug (Champion L88...no need for the cheesy Indian-made replacements) cleared that up, so I think Cosmo was right. (FWIW, 3 oz/gal = 3 tablespoons per half gallon, 2 oz/gal = 2 tablespoons per half gallon. That makes it easy to measure out.)

2nd: Do not believe the weight specifications in the sales literature. The bike itself weighs 100 pounds, and the tires are labeled 260# max load at 36 PSI. Most of the rider's weight is over the rear tire. So if the rider is 200# or over, consider the shocks and rear tire overstressed and expect to replace the rear inner tube on a fairly regular basis. (I'm about 250#, and I'm on my 3rd rear inner tube, 4th if you count the one that came in it from the factory.) 10-12 ounces of Slime helps a lot (even though that's more than is recommended), since that much will completely fill the tube at the bottom, so the entire inner surface of the tube will be coated each time you roll the bike slowly a couple of yards. I'd say this bike is best recommended to riders of 150# or less, though I'm well over that and am keeping mine anyway.

It has a 49.something CC engine rated at .9 hp. Modern 50 cc 2-stroke engines should develop more like 1.5 hp, and the exhaust pipe is extremely narrow, so here's what I think: State laws vary. Some say that to be a moped you have to have working pedals. Some say "under 50cc" engine. Some say less than 25 or 30 mph max. Some say automatic transmission (which basically means centrifugal clutch, for a moped). I think Kinetic or Cosmopolitan decided to arrange things so the Kinetics meet the rules everywhere, by restricting the engine via its tiny exhaust pipe. (They now carry a "performance muffler" for $90, so that tends to confirm my suspicion.) I bought the larger rear pulley from Cosomopolitan as the area I lived was moderately hilly and it simply would not climb one local hill. The pulley comes with a new belt and cost $50 (rather a ripoff) and drops top speed to 25 (comfortable cruise to 20), but does help with hill climbing ability. It's still a weak hill climber, though, and heavy pedaling, sometimes walking it up hills is still a fact of life with a TFR. (The magnum has a 2 speed rear hub and that should help, but I've heard they have perhaps as high as a 30% defect rate. I can't confirm that gossip directly, though.)

The electrical system is primitive, though that may be more the rule than the norm for mopeds generally. Looking at the wiring diagram, the magneto has 2 windings. One runs the ingition, the other the lights. The headlight/tail light is wired permanently on (fed safety regulation) and uses standard 1156 (maybe an 1157 for tail/brake light? I'd have to check that) bulbs throughout. These were developed for automotive use, where power isn't a big problem. When you're idling at a traffic light, your headlight and brake light will be operating simultaneously. Add turn signals, and your light circuit is frankly overloaded. Your headlight will dim to yellow when you apply the brakes, and will dim further to orange each time the turn signal blinks. I'm looking into LED replacements for the bulbs (they use a lot less power) but they're pretty expensive and for now pretty hard to find. That's still a project in progress, so I can't report success or recommend models/vendors for this at this point.

Overall, I'd recommend the TFR/Magnum for light weight riders in not-too-hilly areas as a pretty good bike at an extremely good price. Bigger riders or ones in hilly areas may want to go with more expensive (much more expensive, usually) models from other maufacturers.

Thanks for all the info

B Perkins /

I have a black 2001 TFR. I have the chrome rear luggage rack-think it really enhances the bikes apparance and a black tool bag on it as well. Bought it for $800 from JC.whiteney out the door, delivery included. In retrospect, I would have gone with a 2 speed such as the Magnum. However, I am pretty pleased overall with the Kinetics looks and ride as you are.

Re: Thanks for all the info

XBrandon EdgeX /

Is it in the J.C. Whitney big catalog or is it in the motorcycle catalog or something? I've never seen it in the full catalog.

Re: Thanks for all the info

Oddly, it seems to be only in the motorcycle catalog; not even in the online verions of the motorcycle; only in the print version. Maybe it's a no-compete thing with Cosmopolitan? If you wanted to order it by phone, it's on page 101 of the current version, or it's indexed under "moped" (the page number may change in later versions of the catalog).

Listen ,Kinetic fans...........

...........you should check out www.mysmallbikeconnection.com in INDY as to price before you order anywhere else.Last year,they sold TFRs which were one year old in the crate for 458.00 and the Magnum for around 650.00.But these were limited supplies of `close-out' models.A REALLY good deal for people within driving distance of Indy,like you folks in Eastern Iowa,Illinois,and Michigan.Heck,I'm only 200 mi. from there!

Re: Listen ,Kinetic fans...........

That URL is no good, but I did a web search and found it. http://www.yoursmallbikeconnection.com They do a totally lame job of marketing if they actually want to sell any Kinetics as they mention them only once that I could find, though it's quite possible they do have them for a good price. It'd be worth a phone call to find out, I suppose.

Re: Listen ,Kinetic fans...........

To save a couple hundred dollars a bike! You better believe it would be worth a call.By the way,I'm glad you straightened me out on that URL,as I thought it was `my' bike connection and it was `your' bike connection.I almost bought a Magnum at less than 650.00 last year,but I was holding out for the Avanti Autopower.The lady's name I conversed with was Barbara Owens.A very nice person to talk to.I may still have her e-mail address.

Its in the motorcycle catalogue

B Perkins /

but not the online version. Its listed for $888 (we had a 10% good customer discount so we got it for $800) Includes turnsignals,extra mirror and shipping. They have black and red. < http://www.menintools.com>; has the TFRt listed for $599 no turnsignals, mirror or shipping included though. But to be honest, I'd be a little leary of that guy because he tried to tell me the Cosmo stinger he sells (avanti supersport) is actually a 70 rather than a 50 and denied motifying them. whereas Cosmomotors who sells them to him says they are only a 50. But he may be reputable, just mistaken. who knows? Good luck. However, if you have hills where you are, I would go with a 2 speed like the Cosmo stinger-made by Avanti, however I hear that Avanti has transmission issues.

Re: Listen ,Kinetic fans...........

I got my Kinetic Magnum from yoursmallbikeconnection, but I must warn anyone who wants to buy a moped from them that in my experience, their customer service sucks. I didn't get any documentation (other than the owner's manual) with my moped. I had a heck of a time getting the documents necessary to properly register and title my 'ped in Illinois. After repeated attempts to get docs from YSBC I finally called Cosmo and they were the ones who ultimately sent me the proper forms. I don't even bother with YSBC---if I need assistance, I call Cosmo. Also, Cosmo has never asked questions about when or where I bought my moped. I just call them and they answer my questions even though my moped is long out of warranty.

I suppose if your State doesn't require any special licensing, etc. you could buy from YSBC. But if your State DOES require your 'ped to be titled, MAKE SURE that the place you buy your moped from will give you the proper forms!

who makes kinetic?

check out www.kineticindia.com

these mopeds are made by Kinetic Engineering in India, who also make some pretty cool motorcycles and scooters but dont sell them in the us. D Nyberg wrote:

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