HexBolts Sucketh.

Reeperette /

Now, can someone tell me who's bright idea hex-bolts were ?

Not the kind with a hex shaped head you can get off simple and easy, the kind that instead of being tapped for straight or phillips screwdriver, require a friggin hexkey to remove.

Reason being...first off, FINDING a goddamned hexkey that'll fit em...ya got yer metrics, ya got yer standards, and they do NOT fit each other.

Then you find em comin in BIZARRE sizing, due to wear, corrosion or just damnall poor machining...4.5 MM ?????

11/64 ???? WTF ?

And of course...by the time YOU get to them to try to take them out - they're stripped.

On top of that, hexkeys, the way most of em are made...no bloody way in hell can you get the leverage to MOVE one of these stinkin bolts, I've gone as far as slipping a long tube over the end and just poundin it with a rubber mallet (after hammering the damn hexkey in deep enough to make sure it STAYS there, with a lil epoxy fer good measure!).

Like, 80% of the Tomos Bullets I've worked on have had simple, flathead screws holding the transmission casing together, and the only place I've really seen em in common use before are the handlebars, in which case I rip em out as fast as possible and replace them with something ELSE, cause they strip, and then you have floppy handlebars, which sucks.

If those damn things are stock for holding the A5 transmission together, I am right damn glad to be replacing it with an A3 !!

Getting them out was bitch enough, they ain't NEVER goin back in, that's fer sure.

Anyone have any ideas for getting the damn things OUT once they're stripped beyond all possibility of even hammering the next size up into there and gorilla-arming it ?

I swear, I wanna find the guy who invented these things and throttle him, it's the dumbest idea I've ever seen next to congress, and that's sayin somethin.

-Ree

Re: HexBolts Sucketh.

Steeltoad /

Fill the hex hole with the best epoxy you have, then screw in a standard bolt with short threads, one that will just barely fit in is best. Wait for the epoxy to dry, and you have a standard bolt.

Personally, I like the hex bolts, but maybe thats because my bike is new, and nothing is stripped, and I have an ample supply of hex wrenches that just happen to fit.

Re: HexBolts Sucketh.

Ron Brown /

Ree,

You need a set of allen wrenches designed to fit a 3/8 drive ratchet and if necessary, an adaptor to an impact wrench. Failing that, cut a straight length off the allen wrench, set it in the bolt head and whack it. If you can, use a long enough wrench to clamp vise grips on it and apply sone counter clockwise pressure as you hit it. Then try to unscrew it again. All of the hold of a bolt, if not corroded, is the binding of the head to the surface by the pulling of the thread. Whacking it with an impact wrench or as described, shortens the distance between the head face and the threads. This will almost allways loosen it.

Happy hammering,

Ron

Re: HexBolts Sucketh.

Reeperette /

:::Cranks up Devo's "workin in the coal mine" and gets a 4lb maul::::

Bloodywell ::WHAM:: cursed, miserable ::WHAM::: useless ::WHAM:: ^%#%$^*&@#$ ::WHAM::....and if dis don't work...::WHAM::: find me a metal-boring drill and a tap kit...::::WHAM::::

To be continued.....

Re: HexBolts Sucketh.

What's a maul?

Re: HexBolts Sucketh.

Darth Maul?

Jeez...schools these days....

Reeperette /

Main Entry: maul

Pronunciation: 'mol

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English malle mace, maul, from Old French mail, from Latin malleus; akin to Old Church Slavonic mlatu hammer, Latin molere to grind -- more at MEAL

Date: 13th century

: a heavy often wooden-headed hammer used especially for driving wedges; also : a tool like a sledgehammer with one wedge-shaped end that is used to split wood

In short, a hammer with an oversize square head I happen to use for busting concrete...and on occasion, bones...

-R

Re: HexBolts Sucketh.

Ree, hex keys (allen wrenches) are generally cheap to obtain, but if you have problems extracting them, Sears has a new set of easy outs designed to remove stuck bolts that are pretty effective, set of 3 for 20 bucks , but they will not replace them for free if they break like they do with most tools

Rog

Re: HexBolts and more Schoolin'

Ree:

Having the correct hex key is the secret. Also if they are rusted in place, they will be a problem as any threaded fastener will be.

I use a product called "Rust Buster" that I found at an appliance parts store that works better than W4 Diddly or Liquid Wrench in loosening stuck bolts.

PS: Their proper name is Hexagonal Socket Head Cap Screws

Jim

Having the tools don't help much.

Reeperette /

>>Having the correct hex key is the secret.<<

So true.

Mind, I have every damn conceivable size from 1mm to 8mm, in 0.5mm increments, and all US-Standard sizes from 1/8" to 5/8", including some of the real oddball ones in between.

And in use, over the course of the years....I can find one to fit less than half the time...between strippage prior to me getting to it, corrosion, and just poor machining, rarely do any of the 'proper' ones fit.

That's why I think the things are a completely hideous idea, besides the fact that you can't get leverage on a hexkey like you can a wrench.

It just doesn't make any sense at all to use this kind of fastener, with all the hassle, I can see no valid reason for it.

I wish the egghead engineers who design crap like this were forced to own the product....things would get simpler in a hurry.

-R

Re: Having the tools don't help much.

I have gone through the same type of frustration. I will generally not resort to a using a maul (mol) but did pull out a ball pin hammer to help insert the wrong size hexagonal cup screw pin crappy thing without much luck. Drill, correct bit, retap the hole, bought some new bolts from Lowes that will take a regular wrench or socket (No phillips head or flat head to get buggered up and ugly). No new problems,

Hex bolts and hex wrenches can be a big pain in the rear. Drilling the old bolt out can be one of the worst ways to correct the situation especially if the surrounded by a softer metal. try the liquid wrench stuff first, maybe a little heat (not good for paint). The sugestion of tapping on it is good for any stuck bolt.

Jamie

Re: Having the tools don't help much.

If this marvelous engineering plagued world would have stuck to the English system for bolts and hex-HEAD bolts at that,there'd be a lot less ruined parts,mangled hands,and angry mechanics out there.I've got no problem with the metric system,if it's all the metric system on a given vehicle or machine.It's when they mix `em I get frustrated.

Re: Having the tools don't help much.

Ron Brown /

Don,

Obviously you have not been exposed to the English Whitworth/BSF system!

You would beg for metric. : )

Ron

Re: Having the tools don't help much.

I might whine a little,but I would not beg! What in the heck is it,anyway,Ron?

Re: Having the tools don't help much.

Ron Brown /

Don,

Many moons ago, I could have quoted chapter and verse on Whitworth and BSF hardware.

The short version is that Whitworth was the name of the English standard course thread. British Standard Fine (BSF) was the fine thread. During WW1 or 2, I forget which, BSF was standardized to US fine threads for compatability of war machinery, the only difference was the radius of the thread tip, otherwise they were interchangable.

The interesting feature was that wrenches were labeled according to the thread diameter and pitch. As an example, the same wrench would be labeled 1/4 Whitworth and 5/16 BSF, it would look like a 1/2 inch wrench because that was the size of the nut that fitted these two bolt sizes. Of course, it was not a 1/2 inch. it was some bastard size that Mr. Whitworth had figured out was the correct amount of metal to wrap around that size bolt with that thread. To the best of my recollection, there were no standard wrenches (labeled in England as AF meaning the distance Accross the Flats) which would fit Whitworth and BSF nuts.

Then there was the BA or British Association series which were used mostly for electrical equipment and was similar to the US numbered small bolt standard. Of course this did not have standard size nuts either, you had to use BA wrenches.

And you wonder why the empire collapsed. : )

For future reference, what you call the English system is actually American. England never had anything this rational.

Ron

Leftovers....

Reeperette /

Well, having worked in hydraulic fittings at one time....it's STILL somewhat like that, you got yer metrics, yer standards, yer "british standard" and a buncha wild crap like that - and you dare not screw up cause the wrong replacement for a 300PSI line means someone might get hurt, badly.

And Don...you ever own a Tomos ? it's the main reason WHY I got both a metric and a US Toolkit....this Targa's a bit more messed up than normal about that, tho...lots o under-the-surface jack-riggin once I started tearin it apart real good.

-R

Re: Having the tools don't help much.

Ron.I've always heard the English system as our American system,but perhaps I'm wrong.And you were right again.I WOULD HAVE begged to get the metric over bsf.(:>)

Re: Leftovers....

Yeah,Ree! I own a backhoe so I've heard the nightmares on hyd.fittings.And my hoe can have up to 2700lbs per inch of pressure in a tight spot.I own 4 Tomos Ree and 2 of them are in fair running order,I think.But I haven't tore into them yet,so I'llk be warned.Thanks!My Sebrings are basically metric,thank goodness!

Re: An impact driver!

If you spend any time wrenching on 'peds, you MUST have one of those impact drivers you whack with a hammer.

With Liquid Wrench or my friend Rust Buster and the biggest hammer you can get, you can loosen most any screw.

And the biggest hammer part is no joke. I've seen people tapping an impact driver like they're driving a nail. The secret is to get the biggest hammer you can and give it a good whack while holding the driver in tension in the "unscrew" direction, depending on if it's a right hand or left hand thread.

Surprisingly, you can do more damage with too small hammer than too big.

Jim

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